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THE APOSTLES DID NOT PREACH THE SAME GOSPEL

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  • Originally posted by Theo102 View Post

    The KJV has bear rather than proclaim in verse 15.

    And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
    Acts 9:6

    Paul's role was to bear the name, not to be a minister and witness:

    But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
    For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
    Acts 9:15-16

    Re Peter's endorsement of Paul:

    Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry [thee] whither thou wouldest not.
    John 21:18
    That is just ignorant talk.

    What did you do with Peter's scripture, by the way?
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

      That is just ignorant talk.
      Bearing the name (Acts 9:15) is relevant to Paul's misrepresentation of the name:

      Isaiah 45:23 (YHWH)
      Romans 14:11 (Lord)
      Philemon 2:10 (Jesus)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
        It's just simple definitions of words that you want to make into something that it is not.
        You're ignoring the etymology and the historical use that associates "person" with someone's physical aspect.

        Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
        Also "people" to not have rights. An individual person has rights.
        Men are people, and according to Blackstone men have rights:

        "Those rights then which God and nature have established, and are therefore called natural rights, such as are life and liberty, need not the aid of human laws to be more effectually invested in every man than they are; neither do they receive any additional strength when declared by the municipal laws to be inviolable." ~ Blackstone

        Also, natural rights are recognised in the US Declaration of Independence (here called unalienable Rights):

        "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

        Can you show any reputable source that says that persons have the natural right of liberty?

        Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
        What any of this has to do with anything is beyond me.
        It relates to human beings treating the state as their lawgiver and abandoning deity for that role.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Theo102 View Post

          Bearing the name (Acts 9:15) is relevant to Paul's misrepresentation of the name:

          Isaiah 45:23 (YHWH)
          Romans 14:11 (Lord)
          Philemon 2:10 (Jesus)
          You speak mumbo jumbo.
          Oh how I love the Word of God!

          Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

            You speak mumbo jumbo.
            It's related to earlier misrepresentation of the name as "the LORD".

            I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
            Isaiah 42:8, KJV

            I am YHWH: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
            Isaiah 42:8 (with transliteration from the Hebrew name of יהוה)

            Calling on the name is significant:

            And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos[אנוש]: then began men to call upon the name of YHWH.
            Genesis 4:26

            For thus saith YHWH, Thy bruise [is] incurable[אנוש], [and] thy wound [is] grievous.
            Jeremiah 30:12

            And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
            Joel 2:32, KJV

            And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
            Acts 2:21

            Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
            This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
            Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
            Acts 4:10-12

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Theo102 View Post

              It's related to earlier misrepresentation of the name as "the LORD".

              I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
              Isaiah 42:8, KJV

              I am YHWH: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
              Isaiah 42:8 (with transliteration from the Hebrew name of יהוה)

              Calling on the name is significant:

              And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos[אנוש]: then began men to call upon the name of YHWH.
              Genesis 4:26

              For thus saith YHWH, Thy bruise [is] incurable[אנוש], [and] thy wound [is] grievous.
              Jeremiah 30:12

              And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
              Joel 2:32, KJV

              And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
              Acts 2:21

              Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
              This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
              Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
              Acts 4:10-12
              God and Jesus know people call them those names.
              Oh how I love the Word of God!

              Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                God and Jesus know people call them those names.
                The point is that there's a connection of between Paul's role of bearing the name, Peter's endorsement of Paul, and the inconsistency between the name used by the prophets and the name used by Peter & Paul for their corresponding verses, and Peter and Paul's role regarding the Gentiles. The word semite is derived from the Hebrew word shem, which means name, and naturally relates to the idea that Gentiles are not semites.

                Here's Paul's inconsistency with the name, in full:

                Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am El, and there is none else.
                I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
                Isaiah 45:23

                For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
                Romans 14:11

                That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
                And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
                Phillipians 2:10-11

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Theo102 View Post

                  The point is that there's a connection of between Paul's role of bearing the name, Peter's endorsement of Paul, and the inconsistency between the name used by the prophets and the name used by Peter & Paul for their corresponding verses, and Peter and Paul's role regarding the Gentiles. The word semite is derived from the Hebrew word shem, which means name, and naturally relates to the idea that Gentiles are not semites.

                  Here's Paul's inconsistency with the name, in full:

                  Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am El, and there is none else.
                  I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
                  Isaiah 45:23

                  For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
                  Romans 14:11

                  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
                  And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
                  Phillipians 2:10-11
                  You make no sense.



                  Oh how I love the Word of God!

                  Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Theo102 View Post
                    You're ignoring the etymology and the historical use that associates "person" with someone's physical aspect.
                    No, I'm not. The term PERSON by itself means the same thing as PEOPLE.

                    The term 'on your person' is an idiomatic expression that has the word person in it.

                    People and persons means exactly the same thing.

                    Originally posted by Theo102 View Post
                    Men are people, and according to Blackstone men have rights:

                    "Those rights then which God and nature have established, and are therefore called natural rights, such as are life and liberty, need not the aid of human laws to be more effectually invested in every man than they are; neither do they receive any additional strength when declared by the municipal laws to be inviolable." ~ Blackstone
                    Woopee

                    Originally posted by Theo102 View Post
                    Also, natural rights are recognised in the US Declaration of Independence (here called unalienable Rights):

                    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

                    Can you show any reputable source that says that persons have the natural right of liberty?
                    Fallacious argument.

                    Originally posted by Theo102 View Post
                    It relates to human beings treating the state as their lawgiver and abandoning deity for that role.
                    You live in a dream world where words have no meaning but what you want them to have.

                    BTW... what does this have to do with? -> THE APOSTLES DID NOT PREACH THE SAME GOSPEL
                    All of my ancestors are human.
                    Originally posted by Squeaky
                    That explains why your an idiot.
                    Originally posted by God's Truth
                    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                    Comment


                    • "You're ignoring the etymology and the historical use that associates "person" with someone's physical aspect."

                      Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                      No, I'm not. The term PERSON by itself means the same thing as PEOPLE.
                      You obviously are. Here's what I posted about it before:

                      The word person derives from the word phersu, meaning mask, just as in the KJV the word person is a translation of the Hebrew word pan, meaning face.
                      A man has a person, so a man is more than a person. Collectively, men, women, and children are people, not persons.

                      Here's a supporting definition:

                      early 13c., from Old French persone "human being, anyone, person" (12c., Modern French personne) and directly from Latin persona "human being, person, personage; a part in a drama, assumed character," originally "a mask, a false face," such as those of wood or clay worn by the actors in later Roman theater. OED offers the general 19c. explanation of persona as "related to" Latin personare "to sound through" (i.e. the mask as something spoken through and perhaps amplifying the voice), "but the long o makes a difficulty ...." Klein and Barnhart say it is possibly borrowed from Etruscan phersu "mask." Klein goes on to say this is ultimately of Greek origin and compares Persephone.

                      https://www.etymonline.com/word/person


                      For YHWH ... regardeth not persons[פנים], nor taketh reward:
                      Deuteronomy 10:17

                      פנים = faces, appearances

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Theo102 View Post
                        "You're ignoring the etymology and the historical use that associates "person" with someone's physical aspect."
                        For YHWH ... regardeth not persons[פנים], nor taketh reward:
                        Deuteronomy 10:17

                        פנים = faces, appearances
                        Indeed, God does not base His regard on appearances but on the real substance that He alone can determine.

                        Again, what does this have to do with the topic?
                        All of my ancestors are human.
                        Originally posted by Squeaky
                        That explains why your an idiot.
                        Originally posted by God's Truth
                        Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                        Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                        1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                        Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                          Indeed, God does not base His regard on appearances but on the real substance that He alone can determine.

                          Again, what does this have to do with the topic?
                          The difference between persons and people relates to the state because the state treats people as persons with no natural rights.
                          Obedience to the state is endorsed by Romans 13:

                          Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
                          Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
                          Romans 13:1-2

                          Which contrasts with the Messiah making a distinction between deity and the state:

                          And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
                          Mark 12:17

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Theo102 View Post

                            The difference between persons and people relates to the state because the state treats people as persons with no natural rights.
                            Obedience to the state is endorsed by Romans 13:

                            Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
                            Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
                            Romans 13:1-2

                            Which contrasts with the Messiah making a distinction between deity and the state:

                            And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
                            Mark 12:17
                            Again, what does this have to do with the different gospel?
                            All of my ancestors are human.
                            Originally posted by Squeaky
                            That explains why your an idiot.
                            Originally posted by God's Truth
                            Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                            Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                            (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                            1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                            (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                            Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post

                              Again, what does this have to do with the different gospel?
                              The bit that I said about contrast.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DougE View Post
                                Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

                                The mystery of the gospel was revealed first to Paul.

                                Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

                                16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

                                Paul and the twelve Apostles preached Christ. Paul preached Christ according to the mystery and the scriptures of the prophets. The twelve did not preach Christ according to the mystery.

                                Paul claims the gospel as being "my gospel", which distinguishes it from all others. Paul states his gospel was according to the mystery. The mystery was kept secret until revealed to Paul, which means the twelve Apostles could not have known it.

                                Paul's gospel is now made manifest.

                                Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

                                Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles.

                                3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

                                God clearly states that there are dispensations. We are in the dispensation of the grace of God. Gentiles can now be saved freely, along with Jews, without the law and covenants. Gentiles no longer are seperated from Israel. Gentiles no longer have to come to God through Israel.

                                3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

                                Jesus revealed the mystery to Paul.

                                3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

                                3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

                                3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

                                The church, the body of Christ was revealed first to Paul.

                                Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

                                1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

                                The mystery was hid even from the twelve disciples, but was made manifest to us by Paul.

                                Luke 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

                                18:32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

                                18:33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

                                18:34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

                                Paul's gospel includes the death, burial, and the resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). The twelve Apostles had no understanding of any of this according to Luke 18:34, even when Jesus told them of his death and resurrection in Luke 18:33 and in fact, it was hid from them. The twelve Apostles could not have been preaching the same gospel as Paul.

                                Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

                                Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

                                1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.


                                Jesus was preaching the gospel of the promised Davidic kingdom (Luke 1:32).

                                Luke 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.

                                9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

                                9:6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.

                                The twelve Apostles were not preaching the same gospel as Paul, but rather the gospel of the kingdom, which Paul never preached.

                                It is imperative to believe the gospel that was given to us and be justified unto eternal life.

                                The gospel has been progressively revealed throughout scripture. Those that believed the gospel revealed in their dispensations, believed God, and were justified unto eternal life (Romans 4:3). If you only believe that the kingdom is at hand (Mark 1:15), as preached by the twelve, you are lost. If you only believe in the name of Jesus, as preached by the twelve, that he is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31), you are lost. If you only believe you should repent and be baptized (Acts 2:38), as preached by the twelve, you are lost. If you only believe the gospels of the twelve Apostles you are lost.

                                The gospel given us in this dispensation is only found in the epistles of Paul; examples being Romans 3:19-26 and 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
                                As the mystery was being revealed progressively, it was not all assimilated and preached simultaneously is certain.

                                We do read that Peter spoke of Paul's wisdom in referring to Paul's epistles.

                                II Peter 3:15-16

                                15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

                                16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

                                Clearly, Peter, for one, was well aware of the content's of Paul's epistles and recognized the wisdom given to him.

                                The apostles who cared to learn from Paul and the others who received the revelation of the mystery did not contradict Paul, and if they carried out their responsibility to God and His son Jesus Christ, the head of the body, they would have adhered to and taught what God revealed to Paul and others about the mystery.

                                Paul makes it very clear that the mystery was revealed not only to himself but to others.

                                Ephesians 3:4-5

                                4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

                                5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

                                Actually, the mystery would have been first revealed to Jesus Christ, since he is the head of the body which is the church.

                                The mystery was hid in God, it was not hid in His son

                                Ephesians 3:9

                                9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

                                Most certainly, the twelve apostles did not teach all those things that the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus taught.

                                Hebrews 3:1
                                Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

                                Peter was one of the apostles who notably contradicted the apostle Jesus' doctrine.

                                However, Peter was meek enough to continue to learn.

                                We all have a learning curve.
                                "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                                "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                                Pro scripture = Protestant

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