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The false doctrine of the immortality of the soul (or State of the Dead).

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Truster View Post
    To fully understand the experience and reality of eternal life a man needs to have recieved it at regeneration. You haven't and so you can't possibly understand it.
    Well lets take a look at what Jesus said and did. While speaking to His disciples about Lazarus who was gravely ill, Jesus said, "Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, if he sleep he shall do well. Howbeit, Jesus spoke of his death; but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead." John 11:11-14

    The disciples were confused at what He said and thought Christ meant natural sleep, but He meant the sleep of death. On His arrival Jesus found that Lazarus had already been four days in the tomb. John 11:17

    Then when talking with Martha notice what she said, He tried to comfort her by saying,
    'Thy brother shall rise again.' Martha saith unto him, 'I know that He shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.' John 11:23,24

    Martha knew that life would be restored to Lazarus only in the resurrection at the last day, not some spirit floating around somewhere. Jesus demonstrated through the resurrection of Lazarus that He was the One who could resurrect the dead according to He had claimed with His words, "I am the resurrection and the life." John 11:25

    The Scriptures in both Old and New Testaments are very clear on this issue. Life to the dead will be restored in the resurrection on the last day, as Christ has the keys to raise us up in the flesh when He comes.


    Job 19:25-26 King James Version (KJV)
    25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
    26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

    Christ is the resurrection and the life and showed how death itself will be vanquished at the resurrection,.

    Matthew 28:5-6 King James Version (KJV)
    5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
    6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.


    John 20:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
    27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
    28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
    29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


    Romans 10:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation


    Revelation 1:17-18 King James Version (KJV)
    17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
    18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by betsy123 View Post
      Of course - at that, and at this time, no one has eternal life except God.

      HOWEVER......we are going to be judged on Judgement Day.
      Jesus will fulfill His promise!



      John 2:25
      And this is what he promised us--eternal life.



      ISN'T THAT THE PROMISE?


      To have eternal life is to be immortal. The saved will become immortals!
      We are not immortal or go straight to heaven when we die, and the question is can humans achieve it, and if so, how and when?
      Mark 10:17 - And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
      Luke 10:25 - And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
      Luke 18:18 - And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

      Notice, the questions in the verses above talk about inheriting eternal life, that is a future tense event not a current one, and it is not of self. They were asking what they had to do to inherit eternal life, which also says they didn't already have it. So, what did they, and we, have to do to inherit eternal life?

      John 3:15 - That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
      John 17:2 - As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
      1 Timothy 6:19 - Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
      John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

      Again we find that eternal life is not something everyone has, and its not only a future event but it’s conditional; you must believe in Him.

      Titus 3:7 - That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

      Heirs receive an inheritance, it is a promise, but many will reject it so man does not have immortality especially of themselves.
      Hebrews 9:15 - And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
      1 John 5:11 - And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

      These verses clearly show that eternal life is NOT an automatic thing, it is something that is hoped for, something that must be given by God or inherited from God. Nobody goes to heaven when they die, they are not immortal, Christ at His second coming will resurrect the saints who are in the grave.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Zeke View Post
        Your mixing the visible mortal personas (typology in two types of mentalities, religious and its opposite symbolized in Jew and Gentile) masks, everyone here wears, that's veiling the immortal light of I AM, each mans conscience, that is the light of Christ John 1:9, which is foolishness to mans veiled mind, serving his intellectual pride, or looking for signs of observation.

        The inward Christ left behind will say I never knew you to the outward looking Jew and Gentile persona who is enslaved to effect, ignorant of his own conscience being the the power of all causation in his/ her staged life time, believing in the world of good and evil, birth and death that don't exist in Christs kingdom, no offense is even acknowledged unless pride and respect for the mask of person or god is still leavening the heart and mind with separatist dogma, Galatians 3:28-29, 4:1, but be of good cheer none will be lost 2 Tim 2:13, the persona will be judged and perish not the light of Christ that is individualized seeds of conscience that will fall and die many times as a man until fully awakened Psalms 82:6-7.

        Everyone from the least to the greatest persona have no earthly conceptual understanding of their own I AM, Matt 11:11, and is to be left behind John 3:30, for spiritual progression to keep rising out of the death of earthly minded flesh, 2 Corinthians 5:16, 1 Corinthians 15:46-47, that's not some deity outside you coming from heaven to cloth you with his pure light of conscience, the tomb or cup is cleansed inside out first.

        The inward man suffering under the visible dominance of his outward looking religions, that keep his glass colored darkly, Paul called them a babe who kinda believes 1 Corinthians 3:16, 2 Corinthians 13:5, but the mind can't fully except that of himself because babes are still under the influence of the thinking persona and for fear of blaspheme their outward god which is the real blaspheme of the Christ within and breaking the first commandment to have no other gods before me in my kingdom Luke 17:21.

        Jew and gentile are Hagar's sons in bondage to flesh and blood theology or science based on observational effect, neither line up with what Christ in Jesus taught about Gods kingdom being none observable and in your own conscience Luke 17:20-21, the mystery of Paul's gospel is Christ in you the hope of glory that is ever available and present, not some dead letter allegorical future for personas asleep in what Christ termed being dead men, were advised to bury our earthy concepts with the Christ of flesh.....Ephesians 5:13-14, that is the resurrection of our Christ/light spiritual blood shed on thee, that comes buried in all sons of god coming into this world entombed in flesh/man John 1:9, Jesus being a way shower of the perfected God in and as man, IS RA EL Romans 6:9, not some geographical place in the middle east that symbolized that event in each man awakening to his immortal conscience being the pearl hidden in the dead letter hell.
        So the question you have to answer then basically becomes, do you have the immortality of your own self, and go straight to heaven when you die?

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        • #49
          Originally posted by betsy123 View Post
          If it's not dualism, why are there CONSISTENT disntinctions?

          1 Thess 5:23
          May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.




          We are the soul, encased within the physical, made of dust.
          Thus when we PHYSICALLY die - the dust returns to dust - but the soul still exists!

          It is the soul that makes us be alive! Without the soul, we are just a lump of formed people but without any life! That's what "living souls" mean.

          And if a dead walks about - like a voodoo zombie - that would be demonic!



          Genesis 35:18 - And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.



          Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.



          Ecclesiastes 12:7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.




          Why are there two types of death?
          Why is it that the dead are described to be "sleeping" if their physical bodies had already decayed and returned to dust?
          When you die, its just as if you lay down and cease till the resurrection at Christ Second Coming.

          Daniel 12:2
          "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Truster View Post
            A man that has been set free by the truth from error and superstition shall recognise the truth when he hears or reads it. He will also recognise the Spirit of truth in anyone he meets and where that blessed Spirit is not he will know and beware.
            That's why we have the Word of God given to us.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by betsy123 View Post
              If it's not dualism, why are there CONSISTENT disntinctions?

              1 Thess 5:23
              May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.




              We are the soul, encased within the physical, made of dust.
              Thus when we PHYSICALLY die - the dust returns to dust - but the soul still exists!

              It is the soul that makes us be alive! Without the soul, we are just a lump of formed people but without any life! That's what "living souls" mean.

              And if a dead walks about - like a voodoo zombie - that would be demonic!



              Genesis 35:18 - And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.



              Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.



              Ecclesiastes 12:7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.




              Why are there two types of death?
              Why is it that the dead are described to be "sleeping" if their physical bodies had already decayed and returned to dust?
              The clearest definition of death we can find here, “Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7).

              We see the word “return” as sfter death everything seems to go back from where it came. The dust returns to the earth from which it was taken, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. We all understand that the physical components of the body are the very same as the earth itself. When it is buried, the body reverts to the elements of the ground from which the Creator formed it.

              Now lets look at the spirit which goes back to God? There are many verses in the Bible that throw light on this crucial point. James wrote, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also” (James 2:26). The word “spirit” has a marginal reference which reads, “or breath.” This is very important. The actual root word in the Greek is “pneuma,” a word which means “breath” or “air.”

              The words “breath” and “spirit” are often used interchangeably in the Bible. Job said, “All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils” (Job 27:3). Now, we can see that Job was describing the same thing by the words “breath” and “spirit” Man has only breath in his nostrils. As that is what God breathed into man’s nostrils at the time of creation. “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7).

              Now we see when Solomon in Ecclesiastes 12:7 described the spirit returning to God, he was referring to the breath, because that was what God gave in the beginning, and therefore, it was the only thing that could now “return” to God who gave it.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Hobie View Post
                The clearest definition of death we can find here, “Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7).
                There is more than one definition of death .
                you try the lexical fallacy of illegitimate totality transfer
                for the meaning of death to mean only one thing

                1 spiritual death Mat_8:22
                2 physical death Mat 8:22
                3 there is alive yet dead Rev 20:12
                4 death as a place Rev 20:13
                5 death as a person Rev 6:8


                Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

                Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;

                Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:

                Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.

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