Could Christ have sinned?

Hobie

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Matthew 4:1
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

I came across the view that Christians do not believe that Christ could have sinned and failed in his mission on earth. Well then how could he be 'tempted in the desert'? Was it all a charade or could Christ have sinned?
 

Bright Raven

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From CARM.org

Impeccability, when speaking of God, means the inability to sin. Christ was impeccable in that He could not sin and He did not sin (1 Peter 2:22). There is dispute as to whether or not Jesus could have sinned since He was a man as well as divine. But Jesus, the person, claimed the attributes of both divinity and humanity (see Communicatio Idiomatum). That is, He knew all things, could forgive sins, etc., but also was hungry and had to sleep. Since the divine attributes as well as the human attributes were ascribed to Jesus and the divine attribute means that God cannot sin, it is logical to conclude that Jesus could not have sinned.
 

Hobie

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From CARM.org

Impeccability, when speaking of God, means the inability to sin. Christ was impeccable in that He could not sin and He did not sin (1 Peter 2:22). There is dispute as to whether or not Jesus could have sinned since He was a man as well as divine. But Jesus, the person, claimed the attributes of both divinity and humanity (see Communicatio Idiomatum). That is, He knew all things, could forgive sins, etc., but also was hungry and had to sleep. Since the divine attributes as well as the human attributes were ascribed to Jesus and the divine attribute means that God cannot sin, it is logical to conclude that Jesus could not have sinned.
Then it was all just a charade then if He was impeccable, I think not. Christ partook of humanity, and He didn't take the perfect, sinless nature of man before the fall, but the fallen, sinful, offending, weakened, degenerated nature of man after the fall of Adam. And yet sinned not.

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14
 

betsy123

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Then it was all just a charade then if He was impeccable, I think not.

The devil tried to thwart God's plan of the Messiah saving mankind.....that's why the devil tried to tempt Jesus.




Christ partook of humanity, and He didn't take the perfect, sinless nature of man before the fall, but the fallen, sinful, offending, weakened, degenerated nature of man after the fall of Adam. And yet sinned not.

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14

Jesus performed miracles no ordinary human can do, therefore though He is fully human - He also is God.
That, differentiate Him from all the fallen humans whom He'd come to save.
 

JudgeRightly

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From CARM.org

Impeccability, when speaking of God, means the inability to sin. Christ was impeccable in that He could not sin and He did not sin (1 Peter 2:22). There is dispute as to whether or not Jesus could have sinned since He was a man as well as divine. But Jesus, the person, claimed the attributes of both divinity and humanity (see Communicatio Idiomatum). That is, He knew all things, could forgive sins, etc., but also was hungry and had to sleep. Since the divine attributes as well as the human attributes were ascribed to Jesus and the divine attribute means that God cannot sin, it is logical to conclude that Jesus could not have sinned.
I didn't know you were a Calvinist, BR...
 

Hobie

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The devil tried to thwart God's plan of the Messiah saving mankind.....that's why the devil tried to tempt Jesus.






Jesus performed miracles no ordinary human can do, therefore though He is fully human - He also is God.
That, differentiate Him from all the fallen humans whom He'd come to save.

Yet, He was fully human, and set aside His divinity to be with us.
 

Bright Raven

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Then it was all just a charade then if He was impeccable, I think not. Christ partook of humanity, and He didn't take the perfect, sinless nature of man before the fall, but the fallen, sinful, offending, weakened, degenerated nature of man after the fall of Adam. And yet sinned not.

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14

The point is, is Christ capable of sin. If He is, He is not God.

From gotquestions.org

"Could Jesus have sinned? If He was not capable of sinning, how could He truly be able to 'sympathize with our weaknesses' (Hebrews 4:15)? If He could not sin, what was the point of the temptation?"

Answer: There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned. Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so united in one person as to be indivisible. To believe that Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19). Colossians 2:9 adds, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”

Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the same sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.

To be tempted is not, in and of itself, sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as committing murder or participating in sexual perversions. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for the word “tempted”:

1) To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.

2) To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such an act to the degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.

The first definition does not describe a sinful act/thought; the second does. When you dwell upon a sinful act and consider how you might be able to bring it to pass, you have crossed the line of sin. Jesus was tempted in the fashion of definition one except that He was never tempted by a sin nature because it did not exist within Him. Satan proposed certain sinful acts to Jesus, but He had no inner desire to participate in the sin. Therefore, He was tempted like we are but remained sinless.

Those who hold to peccability believe that, if Jesus could not have sinned, He could not have truly experienced temptation, and therefore could not truly empathize with our struggles and temptations against sin. We have to remember that one does not have to experience something in order to understand it. God knows everything about everything. While God has never had the desire to sin, and has most definitely never sinned, God knows and understands what sin is. God knows and understands what it is like to be tempted. Jesus can empathize with our temptations because He knows, not because He has “experienced” all the same things we have.

Jesus knows what it is like to be tempted, but He does not know what it is like to sin. This does not prevent Him from assisting us. We are tempted with sins that are common to man (1 Corinthians 10:13). These sins generally can be boiled down to three different types: “the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16 NKJV). Examine the temptation and sin of Eve, as well as the temptation of Jesus, and you will find that the temptations for each came from these three categories. Jesus was tempted in every way and in every area that we are, but remained perfectly holy. Although our corrupt natures will have the inner desire to participate in some sins, we have the ability, through Christ, to overcome sin because we are no longer slaves to sin but rather slaves of God (Romans 6, especially verses 2 and 16-22).
 

beloved57

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hobie

Christ partook of humanity, and He didn't take the perfect, sinless nature of man before the fall, but the fallen, sinful, offending, weakened, degenerated nature of man after the fall of Adam.

What scripture says this ?
 

Catholic Crusader

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Jesus is God.
Denying Christ's divinity places one outside of Christianity. That's the blunt truth. Sorry id the Truth hurts.

The Divinity of Christ has been Christian belief since the beginning, and even today, after the great schism and the Reformation, one thing that Catholicism, Protestantism and the Orthodox hold in common is that Jesus is God, the Second Person of the Trinity.

If you deny that then you are not a Christian. Sorry if the Truth hurts.

Why people are trying to reintroduce the heresy that Jesus is not God after 2,000 years is beyond me.
 

Hobie

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The point is, is Christ capable of sin. If He is, He is not God.

From gotquestions.org

"Could Jesus have sinned? If He was not capable of sinning, how could He truly be able to 'sympathize with our weaknesses' (Hebrews 4:15)? If He could not sin, what was the point of the temptation?"

Answer: There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned. Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so united in one person as to be indivisible. To believe that Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19). Colossians 2:9 adds, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”

Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the same sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.

To be tempted is not, in and of itself, sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as committing murder or participating in sexual perversions. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for the word “tempted”:

1) To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.

2) To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such an act to the degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.

The first definition does not describe a sinful act/thought; the second does. When you dwell upon a sinful act and consider how you might be able to bring it to pass, you have crossed the line of sin. Jesus was tempted in the fashion of definition one except that He was never tempted by a sin nature because it did not exist within Him. Satan proposed certain sinful acts to Jesus, but He had no inner desire to participate in the sin. Therefore, He was tempted like we are but remained sinless.

Those who hold to peccability believe that, if Jesus could not have sinned, He could not have truly experienced temptation, and therefore could not truly empathize with our struggles and temptations against sin. We have to remember that one does not have to experience something in order to understand it. God knows everything about everything. While God has never had the desire to sin, and has most definitely never sinned, God knows and understands what sin is. God knows and understands what it is like to be tempted. Jesus can empathize with our temptations because He knows, not because He has “experienced” all the same things we have.

Jesus knows what it is like to be tempted, but He does not know what it is like to sin. This does not prevent Him from assisting us. We are tempted with sins that are common to man (1 Corinthians 10:13). These sins generally can be boiled down to three different types: “the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16 NKJV). Examine the temptation and sin of Eve, as well as the temptation of Jesus, and you will find that the temptations for each came from these three categories. Jesus was tempted in every way and in every area that we are, but remained perfectly holy. Although our corrupt natures will have the inner desire to participate in some sins, we have the ability, through Christ, to overcome sin because we are no longer slaves to sin but rather slaves of God (Romans 6, especially verses 2 and 16-22).
This is why He became fully human and yet fully God...

Hebrews 2:14-18 King James Version (KJV)

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
 

ioy1273

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Matthew 4:1
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

I came across the view that Christians do not believe that Christ could have sinned and failed in his mission on earth. Well then how could he be 'tempted in the desert'? Was it all a charade or could Christ have sinned?
Most likely for the same reason
that some Christians believe you can't worship God
on any day but Saturday.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Matthew 4:1
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

I came across the view that Christians do not believe that Christ could have sinned and failed in his mission on earth. Well then how could he be 'tempted in the desert'? Was it all a charade or could Christ have sinned?

He could have since he wast tempted to, but decided to do the will of the Father
 

Hobie

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He could have since he wast tempted to, but decided to do the will of the Father

Like all of us, we can decide to do the will of the Father, and resist temptation. Christ was our example in all ways and especially in overcoming sin.
 

Clete

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Matthew 4:1
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

I came across the view that Christians do not believe that Christ could have sinned and failed in his mission on earth. Well then how could he be 'tempted in the desert'? Was it all a charade or could Christ have sinned?

There are people who call themselves Christians who believe that Christ was incapable of sin but I doubt their sincerity, I doubt their faith, I doubt their salvation.

The CALVINIST doctrine of impeccability, (yes, it is absolutely a Calvinist doctrine - well, actually it is an Augustinian doctrine but Calvinism is just reformed Augustinianism so...) is the epitome of heresy and undermines the truthfulness of scripture and thus the entire Christian faith.

If Christ was incapable of sinning, then Matthew chapter four is a lie. It isn't merely a meaningless charade as you mention in your opening post, it's far worse than that! If Jesus could not sin then Satan could not tempt Him. If Jesus was not tempted then Matthew 4 and Hebrews 4 are both false!

The heresy of impeccability is built primarily on the same faulty premise that all the other Calvinist doctrines are based. That premise being the ABSOLUTE immutability of God. A doctrine that finds it's origin in pagan Greek philosophy (i.e. Aristotle), not the bible. But that isn't the only premise upon which people have built this doctrine.

Aquinas wrote, ‘Were an engraver's hand itself the rule that should direct his engraving, then he could never engrave other than rightly; but just so far as the rightness of his work is measured by a rule other than the power of his hand, it is always possible that his work be done either well or not well. Now whatever the divine will does has only the divine will for its rule; for that will has no end or measure beyond itself. But each created will only acts aright so far as it conforms to the rule of God's will, which is the ultimate measure … Therefore it is only the divine will that can never go wrong; and every created will…can go wrong.’ Summa Theologise Ia. 63. 1.

Note the implication that whatever God wills is, by definition, good. If that is so, then it is meaningless to call God good. In fact, if that is so then it is meaningless to call anything good in any moral sense because if God were to will differently tomorrow, then the definition of good would change. The concept of goodness is thus rendered arbitrary (i.e. it's opposite).

Calvinists (and other Augustinian theologians) will respond to this by declaring that God cannot change and thus His will cannot change and we are back to the absolute immutability doctrine as the true basis of the doctrine.

But if God cannot change then God cannot become a man. If God cannot become a man then Jesus was not God. If Jesus was not God then where's the issue with Him being tempted? (That, of course, leaves aside the fact that if Jesus is not God then Christianity falls into dust.)

Clete
 

k0de

Active member
There are people who call themselves Christians who believe that Christ was incapable of sin but I doubt their sincerity, I doubt their faith, I doubt their salvation.

The CALVINIST doctrine of impeccability, (yes, it is absolutely a Calvinist doctrine - well, actually it is an Augustinian doctrine but Calvinism is just reformed Augustinianism so...) is the epitome of heresy and undermines the truthfulness of scripture and thus the entire Christian faith.

If Christ was incapable of sinning, then Matthew chapter four is a lie. It isn't merely a meaningless charade as you mention in your opening post, it's far worse than that! If Jesus could not sin then Satan could not tempt Him. If Jesus was not tempted then Matthew 4 and Hebrews 4 are both false!

The heresy of impeccability is built primarily on the same faulty premise that all the other Calvinist doctrines are based. That premise being the ABSOLUTE immutability of God. A doctrine that finds it's origin in pagan Greek philosophy (i.e. Aristotle), not the bible. But that isn't the only premise upon which people have built this doctrine.

Aquinas wrote, ‘Were an engraver's hand itself the rule that should direct his engraving, then he could never engrave other than rightly; but just so far as the rightness of his work is measured by a rule other than the power of his hand, it is always possible that his work be done either well or not well. Now whatever the divine will does has only the divine will for its rule; for that will has no end or measure beyond itself. But each created will only acts aright so far as it conforms to the rule of God's will, which is the ultimate measure … Therefore it is only the divine will that can never go wrong; and every created will…can go wrong.’ Summa Theologise Ia. 63. 1.

Note the implication that whatever God wills is, by definition, good. If that is so, then it is meaningless to call God good. In fact, if that is so then it is meaningless to call anything good in any moral sense because if God were to will differently tomorrow, then the definition of good would change. The concept of goodness is thus rendered arbitrary (i.e. it's opposite).

Calvinists (and other Augustinian theologians) will respond to this by declaring that God cannot change and thus His will cannot change and we are back to the absolute immutability doctrine as the true basis of the doctrine.

But if God cannot change then God cannot become a man. If God cannot become a man then Jesus was not God. If Jesus was not God then where's the issue with Him being tempted? (That, of course, leaves aside the fact that if Jesus is not God then Christianity falls into dust.)

Clete
"If Jesus could not sin then Satan could not tempt Him."

Islam at it's finest, this thread is closed. [emoji1785][emoji1785][emoji855][emoji856][emoji42][emoji42]
 

Clete

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"If Jesus could not sin then Satan could not tempt Him."

Islam at it's finest, this thread is closed. [emoji1785][emoji1785][emoji855][emoji856][emoji42][emoji42]

This site is absolutely full to the brim and over flowing with people who wouldn't know a rational thought from a hole in the ground.
 
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