Outstanding Questions, Questions left after personal review.

[Jacob]

I have asked many questions of myself recently, in regard to my doctrine or Theology. I don't feel that I am teaching anything wrong at present, but I realize I may get into matters in the future where I will need to reconcile what I am saying with my mind and communication with and to others. Through communication with others I grow in Christ and learn what I need to know.

Apparently, after discussing this on the radio with someone, I have learned that we don't convict people in court by the Law of Moses. I asked about observing and enforcing the Law as a Christian, if it should be done (actually I said this is what I have been thinking about). Is this not unless you are able to do so or because even Israel today doesn't do so? But I have nothing to convict anyone of, especially without the Law, which has had an end (Romans 10:4 NASB) if even in my life. Jesus Christ is my Lord, Savior, Master. So as a Christian I apparently am not to report Law of Moses crimes. Discuss. Believer or unbeliever. Courts, the law of the land, and the governing authorities.

The New Covenant. I think of forgiveness for some reason. God's law because it is mentioned where the new covenant is spoken of in Jeremiah. And the house of Israel and the house of Judah. So if I am not of Israel then it is either not for me or the problem is that I am of Israel by Law of Moses, of which I should be cut off from Israel or life. Being that there is a difference between the Law of Moses and the New Covenant.

Please help or discuss if you can. I prefer to not have posters shutting me down. I really want to work through these things as I am able to do so.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Guyver]

I like this thread topic because I feel it’s of immense necessity to question one’s beliefs completely. I don’t like that you make so many threads at one time because I find that annoying and irritating.

I will be very pleased to offer my opinion and experiences in this thread. I can speak about it. I know what it’s like to examine one’s beliefs with complete abandon. I would like to offer that my frame of reference is fundamentalist Christian like many people here. I believed that if you didn’t believe in Jesus you were going to hell. And I did believe that hell was the lake of fire. But I also believed in outer darkness because Jesus taught it.

 

[Guyver]

Oops. Sorry Jacob, I meant to begin by saying that I commend you for starting this topic.

 

[Guyver]

The Law of Moses is completely bogus, IMHO, so I wouldn’t even worry about that one. That’s mankind pure and simple. But Jesus and the New Testament you do need to decide on, as I see it.

For me, the biggest problem was how the things Jesus said don’t actually work for a believer in the Bible. I mean, I tried praying for people following the things Jesus said and it didn’t work.

I get that dispensatinalists attempt to explain that one away....probably because they already know it doesn’t work but they still want to believe the Bible so they can be saved from Hell Fire.

I mean, I’m just expressing my opinion and experiences not intentionally insulting anyone for their beliefs.

Anyway, it was that in the beginning, but the big finale for me was when I realized the Bible was wrong about the brutal end of the world it prophesied. So, that’s how I came to the place when I realized I had to question everything I had believed in for so long. FWIW.

 

[Jacob]

I like this thread topic because I feel it’s of immense necessity to question one’s beliefs completely. I don’t like that you make so many threads at one time because I find that annoying and irritating.

I will be very pleased to offer my opinion and experiences in this thread. I can speak about it. I know what it’s like to examine one’s beliefs with complete abandon. I would like to offer that my frame of reference is fundamentalist Christian like many people here. I believed that if you didn’t believe in Jesus you were going to hell. And I did believe that hell was the lake of fire. But I also believed in outer darkness because Jesus taught it.

Oops. Sorry Jacob, I meant to begin by saying that I commend you for starting this topic.

Thanks Guyver. It is good to hear from you.

I believe that you believe in God. Do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

As for the New Covenant, some people say that it has come and some people say that it is yet to come. Did you know that it is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah? Some people believe that it is also for the Gentiles or for Jews and Greeks/Gentiles both.

 

[Jacob]

The Law of Moses is completely bogus, IMHO, so I wouldn’t even worry about that one. That’s mankind pure and simple. But Jesus and the New Testament you do need to decide on, as I see it.

For me, the biggest problem was how the things Jesus said don’t actually work for a believer in the Bible. I mean, I tried praying for people following the things Jesus said and it didn’t work.

I get that dispensatinalists attempt to explain that one away....probably because they already know it doesn’t work but they still want to believe the Bible so they can be saved from Hell Fire.

I mean, I’m just expressing my opinion and experiences not intentionally insulting anyone for their beliefs.

Anyway, it was that in the beginning, but the big finale for me was when I realized the Bible was wrong about the brutal end of the world it prophesied. So, that’s how I came to the place when I realized I had to question everything I had believed in for so long. FWIW.

Well thank you for sharing your opinion. Of course, I believe the Bible. I find it sad that people don't believe in hell because of their experiences, or because Jesus or God doesn't answer prayer the way that they expect. Maybe you have to be a believer first. Maybe you can only ask for what God wants you to ask for. Maybe if you are walking according to God's will you would never do differently anyway. In any case, I don't know that anyone who asks according to God's will, well, even if they die the prayer may still be answered. How does God answer though? Yes or no or giving you what you asked for? Of course this is not like Santa Claus. Or a Genie. As for hell my friend Steve Gregg has a book three views on hell and he doesn't tell you which one to believe in.

 

[Guyver]

Well thank you for sharing your opinion. Of course, I believe the Bible. I find it sad that people don't believe in hell because of their experiences, or because Jesus or God doesn't answer prayer the way that they expect..

I don’t believe in hell because the idea is so crazy. To believe in hell is to believe God evil.

Now, I will be going to my grave, and I will admit that evil exists in the world in some sense, but I’m not going to believe God evil. I believe God is good, and there must be a good explanation for why things are as they are.

 

[ok doser]

I don’t believe in hell because the idea is so crazy. To believe in hell is to believe God evil.

Now, I will be going to my grave, and I will admit that evil exists in the world in some sense, but I’m not going to believe God evil. I believe God is good, and there must be a good explanation for why things are as they are.

You're so incredibly confused, aren't you?

 

[Guyver]

I have asked many questions of myself recently, in regard to my doctrine or Theology. I don't feel that I am teaching anything wrong at present, but I realize I may get into matters in the future where I will need to reconcile what I am saying with my mind and communication with and to others. Through communication with others I grow in Christ and learn what I need to know.


Shalom.

Jacob

Jacob, how could anything you believe be wrong? The nature of beliefs is that they are not true or false. What you really mean to say is that you wish the approval of those religious people around here because you think they actually believe in God. And the only good reason for this is religious and cultural indoctrination.

And if it works for you that’s great. But, if you find it’s not working for you, as I found out for me, then you have to find something else. I believe in God because that is my baseline.

That’s what I’m able to believe and feel sure of in my beliefs.

 

[Jacob]

I don’t believe in hell because the idea is so crazy. To believe in hell is to believe God evil.

Now, I will be going to my grave, and I will admit that evil exists in the world in some sense, but I’m not going to believe God evil. I believe God is good, and there must be a good explanation for why things are as they are.

God is not evil is true. An argument of those who believe in hell is that it is entirely in keeping with God's righteous character.

Jacob, how could anything you believe be wrong? The nature of beliefs is that they are not true or false. What you really mean to say is that you wish the approval of those religious people around here because you think they actually believe in God. And the only good reason for this is religious and cultural indoctrination.

And if it works for you that’s great. But, if you find it’s not working for you, as I found out for me, then you have to find something else. I believe in God because that is my baseline.

That’s what I’m able to believe and feel sure of in my beliefs.

Are beliefs true or false?

For example, I believe that God exists.

I suppose that part of me wants others to believe as I do. Honesty promotes good conversation.

 

[Guyver]

God is not evil is true. An argument of those who believe in hell is that it is entirely in keeping with God's righteous character.

Putting people in hell is unrighteous. I have to go now, I’ll have to answer the other part later.

 

[Jacob]

Putting people in hell is unrighteous. I have to go now, I’ll have to answer the other part later.

Depending on if there is a hell you may be correct. Hell on earth depends on there being a hell, but it may not be a just view. People perceive hell differently.

 

[Guyver]

Are beliefs true or false?

For example, I believe that God exists.

I suppose that part of me wants others to believe as I do. Honesty promotes good conversation.

I’m back, that didn’t take long. Anyway, beliefs can be true or false....but to the person who believes they are unknown. For example, people used to believe that people lived on Mars, and others believed people lived on the moon because of a religious text. Few people believe those things now because they have been proven false.

So, some beliefs may end up being true, and other things people believe are false, but until such time as they have been proven true or false, they are unknowns. So, let’s take your belief that God exists. It may be true or not true. No one can prove that God exists.

You believe God exists, and I do also, but we can’t prove that one way or the other. The only thing we can do is offer people reasons for why we believe the way we do. If you tell your beliefs to an atheist, they will say “prove it.” Since you won’t be able to prove what you believe to be true, they have every right to not accept your beliefs as their own.

If people could prove God exists, or that the Bible is Gods word, then there wouldn’t be many atheists because they accept facts as real. They don’t have a problem with facts, but they do have a problem with beliefs. I don’t blame them for it personally.

 

[Guyver]

Depending on if there is a hell you may be correct. Hell on earth depends on there being a hell, but it may not be a just view. People perceive hell differently.

Any punishment should fit the crime. A righteous person knows this. You don’t kill a person for running a red light. You fine them for it. Putting someone in an eternal hell with no chance of escape does not fit the crime of not being a Christian while living on this planet that God made.

In fact, I don’t think it’s any crime at all. Irrespective of that, there is no “righteous” or “just” side of God that would allow such punishment, in fact the opposite would be true if in fact God is love.

People believe in hell because it’s in the Bible, the church teaches it, and preachers preach it. That doesn’t make it right or real. But people believe it because they want to.

 

[Guyver]

Thanks Guyver. It is good to hear from you.

Please forgive my poor manners. It is good to speak with you again Jacob.

 

[Jacob]

I’m back, that didn’t take long. Anyway, beliefs can be true or false....but to the person who believes they are unknown. For example, people used to believe that people lived on Mars, and others believed people lived on the moon because of a religious text. Few people believe those things now because they have been proven false.

So, some beliefs may end up being true, and other things people believe are false, but until such time as they have been proven true or false, they are unknowns. So, let’s take your belief that God exists. It may be true or not true. No one can prove that God exists.

You believe God exists, and I do also, but we can’t prove that one way or the other. The only thing we can do is offer people reasons for why we believe the way we do. If you tell your beliefs to an atheist, they will say “prove it.” Since you won’t be able to prove what you believe to be true, they have every right to not accept your beliefs as their own.

If people could prove God exists, or that the Bible is Gods word, then there wouldn’t be many atheists because they accept facts as real. They don’t have a problem with facts, but they do have a problem with beliefs. I don’t blame them for it personally.

Do you believe that there is a relationship between beliefs and evidence even as it pertains to proof if possible?

Any punishment should fit the crime. A righteous person knows this. You don’t kill a person for running a red light. You fine them for it. Putting someone in an eternal hell with no chance of escape does not fit the crime of not being a Christian while living on this planet that God made.

In fact, I don’t think it’s any crime at all. Irrespective of that, there is no “righteous” or “just” side of God that would allow such punishment, in fact the opposite would be true if in fact God is love.

People believe in hell because it’s in the Bible, the church teaches it, and preachers preach it. That doesn’t make it right or real. But people believe it because they want to.

I suppose that hell would be considered punishment but maybe not corrective discipline.

Please forgive my poor manners. It is good to speak with you again Jacob.

Not to worry. So far you are consistent with what you believe. Hopefully we can both grow from the exchange.

 

[Guyver]

I have asked many questions of myself recently, in regard to my doctrine or Theology.

Please help or discuss if you can. I prefer to not have posters shutting me down. I really want to work through these things as I am able to do so.

Shalom.

Jacob

This is the place where you should work through your theology, in one sense...but I think it should be a small part. I mean, this is the internet. There’s people who wear jammies all day and live in their parents basement who post on these forums.

As far as shutting down a thread....it looks like on any thread I’m going to be disagreeing with people because I have different beliefs. I try to express my beliefs politely, but there are some very “wicked” people on this forum. That’s not the word I would choose, but I use it because I think it works here. I consider it wicked to treat people hatefully, and that’s what I see some people around here doing.

If you have to speak insultingly to people, condemn them, and claim they’re going to hell, then you have a terrible religion, and I don’t even care what you believe because I wouldn’t want to be like you.

I mean, not you Jacob....I’m talking about the religious extremists on this site.

 

[Guyver]

Do you believe that there is a relationship between beliefs and evidence even as it pertains to proof if possible?.

If something is proven, it no longer has to be considered a belief, because it’s factual. What is the relationship between beliefs and evidence? Well, that’s a big question.

Cognitive bias is a term that is known and guarded against in the Scientific Method...ie.. Science.
The reason is that it is easy for people to psychologically favor evidence that suits their beliefs. In other words, people can see what they expect to even at a nearly subconscious level.

Take Sasquatch as a point of discussion. Some people claim to have seen or been near one, so they believe and know the creature exists...if they have observed correctly. Then there are other people who consider eyewitness testimony and footprints as enough evidence to “believe” the creature exists....while others consider that it may exist. It’s possible.

Then, there are people who consider the entire thing completely made up and the phenomenon impossible. Without actual scientific evidence in the form of a body, it’s an unproven thing that is either believed or disbelieved.

 

[Jacob]

This is the place where you should work through your theology, in one sense...but I think it should be a small part. I mean, this is the internet. There’s people who wear jammies all day and live in their parents basement who post on these forums.

As far as shutting down a thread....it looks like on any thread I’m going to be disagreeing with people because I have different beliefs. I try to express my beliefs politely, but there are some very “wicked” people on this forum. That’s not the word I would choose, but I use it because I think it works here. I consider it wicked to treat people hatefully, and that’s what I see some people around here doing.

If you have to speak insultingly to people, condemn them, and claim they’re going to hell, then you have a terrible religion, and I don’t even care what you believe because I wouldn’t want to be like you.

I mean, not you Jacob....I’m talking about the religious extremists on this site.

I have a job now, but a lot of my life has been Theology Online. It has been a part of my life at different phases of my life, from living with my parents to living where I do now. I think people should consider what hell is, and study it in light of the lake of fire since that we know is Biblical and many people say there is fire in hell such as hellfire or whatever it is that people say; everlasting punishment in a place called hell, which your body is prepared for to suffer there, (combining some ideas with other ideas might not be the best thing here but I have done so anyhow since the ideas kind of run together in my mind or at least they just did somehow).

In any case, what I was addressing was someone saying another poster has demonstrated that there is no communicating with me, and then he did but it is not my job to pry an answer out of people who post after I am thoughtful with an OP. The other was a thread being shut down because the topic was the same. Maybe it was, but I saw it differently. I post and wait expectantly for the fruit of my labor and get shut down. I would rather carry on a conversation. Thank you.

If something is proven, it no longer has to be considered a belief, because it’s factual. What is the relationship between beliefs and evidence? Well, that’s a big question.

Cognitive bias is a term that is known and guarded against in the Scientific Method...ie.. Science.
The reason is that it is easy for people to psychologically favor evidence that suits their beliefs. In other words, people can see what they expect to even at a nearly subconscious level.

Take Sasquatch as a point of discussion. Some people claim to have seen or been near one, so they believe and know the creature exists...if they have observed correctly. Then there are other people who consider eyewitness testimony and footprints as enough evidence to “believe” the creature exists....while others consider that it may exist. It’s possible.

Then, there are people who consider the entire thing completely made up and the phenomenon impossible. Without actual scientific evidence in the form of a body, it’s an unproven thing that is either believed or disbelieved.

I look at Jesus through the lens of the Bible, and at God through the lens of Jesus.

 

[Nang]

I look at Jesus through the lens of the Bible, and at God through the lens of Jesus.

Amen!

There is NO other way for we creatures to learn of our Creator & Savior except than by reading & studying His revelations as biblically recorded. II Timothy 3:16

SOLA SCRIPTURA