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  • Originally posted by Rondonmonson View Post
    but that is a fact, the universe is 13.7 billion years old,
    Wrong. It's a theory based on blind faith.

    and I am preacher of over 30 years who has a blog on this subject,
    No one cares.

    Originally posted by Rondonmonson View Post
    It's not really even a debate, we have light coming from stars, and we know how fast light travels.
    God said He stretched out the heavens.

    Which could mean that God pulled the light from the stars to the earth faster than light normally travels.

    Which means your claim is moot.

    You young earth brothers have to change the Laws of Nature God gave us.
    No, we don't. We simply let the Bible say what it says.

    ...that doesn't work with me brother, I can't go down that road. God Bless, we can't all agree on all things, that is what makes us all unique.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Rondonmonson View Post
      It's not really even a debate...
      sure it is

      ... we have light coming from stars...

      how do we know how far away those stars are?

      .. and we know how fast light travels.
      and how do we know that?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by chair View Post
        I am Jewish, and view the Exodus story in the Bible as our ancient tradition. I don't need to "prove" it to myself or to anybody else.

        me too, but i'm always curious when someone like bee1 pops up claiming there's no evidence for something without having given any thought to what that evidence would look like

        Comment


        • Originally posted by chair View Post
          In a survey of where nomads have been, most finds aren't buried in layers, like in a city. You just walk slowly over the entire area, looking for pottery shards and the like. You don't look in a particular period.

          Trying to match the Exodus to the Egyptian historical record is an interesting exercise, but one which doesn't appeal to me much. I am Jewish, and view the Exodus story in the Bible as our ancient tradition. I don't need to "prove" it to myself or to anybody else.
          True, but it is provable, if the right time frame is looked at. The evidence is there, but the colleges are teaching our kids the evidence is not there, so it is very important in reality, because while it might not affect you or I, it will affect our kids because of the coming group think {big brother.

          The problem is just the opposite, they dated all of the Egyptian findings by a biblical reference to Ramses II when in fact he was not the Pharaoh of the Exodus. There are writings proving Israel was a Nation that Egypt was referencing 300 years before Ramses II, so how could that be ? It can only mean the Egyptologists are wrong, because the bible called a city Ramses, when it was speaking about where the original location was at the time of the writing. The city Ramses was built on top of the original Hebrew city.

          Give it a look see, its a very good historical journey. I bought it after I saw it free on youtube, I think they took it down the last I looked.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
            Wrong. It's a theory based on blind faith.
            Sure, if you say so my friend...

            No one cares.
            So this is the Christian way brother ? I don't get it to be honest.

            God said He stretched out the heavens.

            Which could mean that God pulled the light from the stars to the earth faster than light normally travels.

            Which means your claim is moot.
            Which only means God created the Universe, and we already know that. There is no reason for God to SPEED UP His Laws of Nature, God lives in ALL TIME thus He lives in the finished product as soon as He commanded it.

            No, we don't. We simply let the Bible say what it says.
            Oh, so you think the English version is the be all and end all, when the facts are the Hebrew word YOWM has about 50 different meanings in the Hebrew language...one is a PERIOD OF TIME, just because some English translator put day down 500 years ago means nothing in reality

            #3117 יוֹם yowm {yome}

            from an unused root meaning TO BE HOT; TWOT - 852; n m
            —Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

            1) day, time, year
            1a) day (as opposed to night)
            1b) day (24 hour period)
            1b1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
            1b2) AS A DIVISION OF TIME
            1b2a) a working day, a day's journey
            1c) days, lifetime (pl.)
            1d) TIME, PERIOD (general)
            1e) year
            1f) temporal references
            1f1) today
            1f2) yesterday
            1f3) tomorrow
            —Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

            From an unused root meaning TO BE HOT; a day (as the WARM HOURS), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a SPACE OF TIME defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially):—age, + ALWAYS, + CHRONICLES, CONTINUALLY (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X FULL, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X REQUIRED, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.
            —Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

            #3117.
            יוֹם
            yom (398a); a prim. root; day:—
            NASB - afternoon*(1), age(8), age*(1), all(1), always*(14), amount*(2), battle(1), birthday*(1), Chronicles*(38), completely*(1), continually*(14), course*(1), daily(22), daily the days(1), day(1115), day of the days(1), day that the period(1), day's(6), day's every day(1), daylight*(1), days(635), days on the day(1), days to day(1), days you shall daily(1), days ago(1), days'(11), each(1), each day(4), entire(2), eternity(1), evening*(1), ever in your life*(1), every day(2), fate(1), first(5), forever*(11), forevermore*(1), full(5), full year(1), future*(1), holiday*(3), later*(2), length(1), life(12), life*(1), lifetime(2), lifetime*(1), live(1), long(2), long as i live(1), long*(11), midday*(1), now(5), older*(1), once(2), period(3), perpetually*(2), present(1), recently(1), reigns(1), ripe*(1), short-lived*(1), so long*(1), some time(1), survived*(2), time(45), time*(1), times*(2), today(172), today*(1), usual(1), very old*(1), when(10), when the days(1), whenever(1), while(3), whole(2), year(10), yearly(5), years(13), yesterday*(1).
            —NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries

            AV - day 2008, time 64, chronicles + H1697 37, daily 32, ever 17,
            year 14, continually 10, when 10, as 10, while 8, full 8
            always 4, whole 4, alway 4, misc 44; 2274

            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Some examples where this word is used in a different way BELOW: Notice it's always used as a PERIOD OF TIME of some sort.


            2 Kings 17:37 And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore(YOWM); and ye shall not fear other gods.

            Genesis 4:3 And in process of time(YOWM) it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.

            Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting(YOWM).

            Ezekiel 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year(YOWM).

            Exodus 13:10 Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year(YOWM).

            Genesis 8:22 While the earth remaineth(YOWM), seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

            Genesis 40:4 And the captain of the guard charged Joseph with them, and he served them: and they continued a season(YOWM) in ward.

            Joshua 24:7 And when they cried unto the Lord, he put darkness between you and the Egyptians, and brought the sea upon them, and covered them; and your eyes have seen what I have done in Egypt: and ye dwelt in the wilderness a long season(YOWM).

            1 Kings 9:3 And the Lord said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually(YOWM).

            Genesis 29:14 And Laban said to him, Surely thou art my bone and my flesh. And he abode with him the space(YOWM) of a month.

            Leviticus 26:34 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long(YOWM) as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.

            Deuteronomy 28:29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore(YOWM), and no man shall save thee.

            Deuteronomy 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always(YOWM), that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

            Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually(YOWM).

            Genesis 41:1 And it came to pass at the end of two full(YOWM) years, that Pharaoh dreamed: and, behold, he stood by the river.

            I could go on and on, but I think this shows enough variation and instances which shows us that the Hebrew word YOWM is used for a PERIOD OF TIME of many sorts. Of course it is going to be used for a day more than any other word because God is going to use "SPECIFIC MENTIONS OF DAYS" more than any other period of time. Whenever a Prophets says that there will be so and so many days of this or that he used the word YOWM. But when it was meant as EVERMORE he also used the word YOWWM, and when it meant a YEAR they also used the word YOWM, etc. etc.

            So God uses the word YOWM and it's up to us to EVENTUALLY figure out what "PERIOD OF TIME" He(God) meant by that !! The Hebrew language had 4000 words and no vowels at the time, it was a primitive language of course. We shouldn't allow the professors of that time (Pharisees, Scribes) to sway us into saying this has to mean ONE DAY, it was a period of time and it's up to us to figure it out in the end. All men knew back then comparatively speaking was that we had days/years/months. So they had to see it as something, what was it going to be ? Day, Year, Month, Evermore, Perpetually, Full, Always, X Required, Space of time etc. etc. They sure didn't have a clue about how big the universe is like we do, they had no concept of billions of years like we do.

            So God created the Universe in a period of 7 YOWMS...........which as shown above means periods of times in various ways. We have to figure it out, we can't allow the dog to lead us here, we have to lead the dog. We can't allow the word DAY (YOWM) to force us to look at things in a way which it drives people away from the Gospel. We want to understand the facts, therefore we can reach people in truth. I have seen many young people tell me, hey, anyone that thinks the universe is 6000 years old, I don't want to hear about your God man, you live in la la land. But when I speak in terms of knowledge, they listen and say so you believe in Evolution, and I say why ? God created the Universe over a 13.7 billion year period, as He so desired ? It makes them think, OK.....It opens a door to gain them via what I see as facts. But if we say the Universe is 6000 years old we have no hope to reach them brother. And that is my job, that is why I researched it, I hated Science in school, but its my job to reach the masses with truths, so I dug in.

            Morning and Evening mean beginning and Ending of a day, or of a period of time.

            As per the Day of the Lord, that is the Day God's Wrath starts on, but the Day of the LORD lasts 3.5 years does it not ?

            I hope the above helped explain my positions somewhat and opens you up to seeing my POV here. YOWM is always inserted for a PERIOD OF TIME, its up to us to understand what that Period of time means in each instance. God Bless
            Last edited by JudgeRightly; May 20th, 2019, 11:28 AM. Reason: I fixed your formatting, which was preventing me from quoting your post and responding to it.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Guyver View Post
              What do you mean the Bible doesn’t have faults? That’s not true.
              Actually: it is very true. A lot of people with a lot more training and resources than yourself have been trying to fault The Holy Scriptures for millenia… none of them have yet been successful. You're fooling yourself if you think you have succeeded where they've failed. The Bible is still 100% accurate, whether you think so or not.
              "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

              If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                Actually: it is very true. A lot of people with a lot more training and resources than yourself have been trying to fault The Holy Scriptures for millenia… none of them have yet been successful. You're fooling yourself if you think you have succeeded where they've failed. The Bible is still 100% accurate, whether you think so or not.
                If there are satyrs dancing among the ruins of Babylon or fire breathing sea monsters with scales that no man can kill, you’re right. If not, then you are incorrect but think you’re not.

                Comment


                • The word, "Satyr," had not yet been invented when The Old Testament was written. The word translated into, "Satyr," was the word for wild goat.
                  "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

                  If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                    Actually: it is very true. A lot of people with a lot more training and resources than yourself have been trying to fault The Holy Scriptures for millenia… none of them have yet been successful. You're fooling yourself if you think you have succeeded where they've failed. The Bible is still 100% accurate, whether you think so or not.
                    I suppose you have been following this thread, and can tell us:
                    1. how many birds of each kind Noah took on the ark
                    2. who killed Goliath
                    3. whether God or Satan tempted David to count Israel

                    These should be simple questions for you to answer.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Guyver View Post
                      If there are ... fire breathing sea monsters with scales that no man can kill, you’re right. If not, then you are incorrect but (I) think you’re not.
                      Leviathan would have been a bit too dangerous to bring on the ark. Noah would actually still be building it if he was to bring two of each dinosaur.
                      "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

                      If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by chair View Post
                        I suppose you have been following this thread, and can tell us:
                        1. how many birds of each kind Noah took on the ark
                        2. who killed Goliath
                        3. whether God or Satan tempted David to count Israel

                        These should be simple questions for you to answer.
                        1. Seven
                        2. David
                        3. Satan
                        He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                        Jim Elliot

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by chair View Post
                          I suppose you have been following this thread, and can tell us:
                          1. how many birds of each kind Noah took on the ark
                          2. who killed Goliath
                          3. whether God or Satan tempted David to count Israel

                          These should be simple questions for you to answer.
                          1) Noah had two of most, seven of the clean (due to sacrifices he would be performing).

                          2) David.

                          3) Satan.
                          "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

                          If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                            1) Noah had two of most, seven of the clean (due to sacrifices he would be performing).

                            2) David.

                            3) Satan.
                            I suggest that you read posts 44, 51, and 75. You'll find that the Bible isn't as clear on these matters as you'd like to think.

                            Comment


                            • I see that It is very clear. I think you're straining at the proverbial gnat so that you can resist The Lamb of God, Who takes away your sins (but only if you believe).
                              "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

                              If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                                I see that It is very clear. I think you're straining at the proverbial gnat so that you can resist The Lamb of God, Who takes away your sins (but only if you believe).
                                I see that the verses are inconsistent, and you are not willing to deal with reality, out of fear that it will shake your faith. It is a weak faith that requires one to blind oneself.

                                Comment

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