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  • 7djengo7
    replied
    Originally posted by Guyver View Post
    How about it?

    Do you believe that alien abductions are real since there are eyewitness accounts? Do you believe that sasquatch, bigfoot or yeti exists because there are eyewitness accounts?
    Eyewitness accounts are accounts of things that are real. Wouldn't you agree?

    Since I, for one, do not call anything "sasquatch", I'm certainly not going to call anything "an eyewitness account of sasquatch". What (if anything) do you call "sasquatch"? And what (if anything) would you call "an eyewitness account of sasquatch"?

    Leave a comment:


  • 7djengo7
    replied
    Originally posted by Guyver View Post
    I don't think God made a world of death, I know he did by observation.
    That's another difference between the way you think and the way I think: See, in my book, all knowing IS thinking. You don't think? Then you don't know. If I can say, "I know that T is true", I can just as easily say, "I, therefore, think that T is true", because my knowledge that T is true is nothing other than my thinking that T is true while T is true.

    That's why I, for one, never do the silly, anti-intellectual "I don't think! I know!"-shtick. But, perhaps such silliness is quite acceptable for "Unreflective John Doe-ism"....er, um, I mean, "Rejective Knowism".

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  • 7djengo7
    replied
    Originally posted by Guyver View Post
    How do you define truth?
    I define truth by saying that such and such is true about truth, and that this or that is false about it, 'cause that's what definin' is: sayin' that such and such is true about the thing being defined, and that this or that is false about the thing being defined.

    About truth, I say, for instance, that
    • Every truth is about something. (No truth is meaningless.)
    • To be true is not the same as to exist.
    • Truth is fact.
    • No truth is a dog, or dogs.
    • No truth is a cat, or cats.
    • No truth is contradictory to any truth.
    • No truth is contrary to any truth.
    • Every truth is contradictory to one, and only one, falsehood.
    • Every truth is contrary to many falsehoods.


    Those are just a few things I can think of off the top of my head, things which I think and say about truth. I define truth by thinking/saying things about truth, like as one would define a yacht by thinking/saying things about a yacht.

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  • ok doser
    replied
    Originally posted by Guyver View Post
    How about it?
    There are eyewitness accounts of Jesus, in the flesh, after His resurrection

    Do you accept those eyewitness accounts as proof?

    If not, I'll revisit my earlier question and ask you again, what would you accept as "real proof"?

    Leave a comment:


  • ok doser
    replied
    [MENTION=16942]JudgeRightly[/MENTION] - the part about eating on the mountain - what's that about?

    Leave a comment:


  • Guyver
    replied
    Originally posted by ok doser View Post
    How about eyewitness accounts?
    How about it?

    Do you believe that alien abductions are real since there are eyewitness accounts? Do you believe that sasquatch, bigfoot or yeti exists because there are eyewitness accounts?

    Leave a comment:


  • JudgeRightly
    replied
    Originally posted by Guyver View Post
    You could "flesh out" your understanding by reading what I've written already.



    Claiming that someone is guilty because of the sins of another person for starters.
    Christians believe and accept what the Bible says.

    The Bible records God saying the following.

    Spoiler
    The word of the Lord came to me again, saying,“What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying: ‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes, And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?“ As I live,” says the Lord God, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.“Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die.But if a man is just And does what is lawful and right;If he has not eaten on the mountains, Nor lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, Nor defiled his neighbor’s wife, Nor approached a woman during her impurity;If he has not oppressed anyone, But has restored to the debtor his pledge; Has robbed no one by violence, But has given his bread to the hungry And covered the naked with clothing;If he has not exacted usury Nor taken any increase, But has withdrawn his hand from iniquity And executed true judgment between man and man;If he has walked in My statutes And kept My judgments faithfully— He is just; He shall surely live!” Says the Lord God.“If he begets a son who is a robber Or a shedder of blood, Who does any of these thingsAnd does none of those duties, But has eaten on the mountains Or defiled his neighbor’s wife;If he has oppressed the poor and needy, Robbed by violence, Not restored the pledge, Lifted his eyes to the idols, Or committed abomination;If he has exacted usury Or taken increase— Shall he then live? He shall not live! If he has done any of these abominations, He shall surely die; His blood shall be upon him.“ If, however, he begets a son Who sees all the sins which his father has done, And considers but does not do likewise;Who has not eaten on the mountains, Nor lifted his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, Nor defiled his neighbor’s wife;Has not oppressed anyone, Nor withheld a pledge, Nor robbed by violence, But has given his bread to the hungry And covered the naked with clothing;Who has withdrawn his hand from the poor And not received usury or increase, But has executed My judgments And walked in My statutes— He shall not die for the iniquity of his father; He shall surely live!“ As for his father, Because he cruelly oppressed, Robbed his brother by violence, And did what is not good among his people, Behold, he shall die for his iniquity.“Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live.The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live.Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “ and not that he should turn from his ways and live?“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair?When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies.Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive.Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair?“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,” says the Lord God. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin.Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel?For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!” - Ezekiel 18:1-32 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

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  • 6days
    replied
    Originally posted by Clete
    What I'm trying to do is flesh out this religion of yours that one would think that a thread entitled "My Religion" is supposed to be all about.
    Clete... Do you think Jesus was religious? Are atheists religious? Is evolutionism a religion? (Yeah... Depends how you define the word). You might have seen this video before... Jesus hated religion. https://youtu.be/1IAhDGYlpqY

    It is interesting that the Bible defines true religion as helping out those in need. (Ie. Widows and orphans)

    Leave a comment:


  • Guyver
    replied
    Originally posted by Clete View Post

    The only reason the twelve step program is being mentioned at all is because you brought it up. I couldn't care less about it one way or the other. What I'm trying to do is flesh out this religion of yours that one would think that a thread entitled "My Religion" is supposed to be all about.
    You could "flesh out" your understanding by reading what I've written already.


    So far, we've been discussing generalities, lets get more specific. Since you accept the existence of at least some sort of God, we don't have to go over the ground that established atheism as being irrational and since we're on an overtly Christian website, let's focus on that religion. Just what is it that you think is irrational about Christianity?

    Clete
    Claiming that someone is guilty because of the sins of another person for starters.

    Leave a comment:


  • ok doser
    replied
    Originally posted by Guyver View Post
    Real proof would be fine thank you.

    How about eyewitness accounts?

    Leave a comment:


  • Guyver
    replied
    Originally posted by 6days View Post
    We believe the evidence shows divine revelation. Reasons include prophecy fulfilled...scientific accuracy.... painfully honest...unique message of salvation....geographical accuracy...unique in unity (Over 40 authors...over 1500years creating one cohesive story)… "The Bible Describes Reality Better Than Any Other Religion Or Worldview
    It tells us why the universe has laws, design, order, complexity, simplicity, elegance, symmetry and beauty – because there is a great and wise and powerful Designer. It tells us why there is beauty, love, wisdom, justice, truth and personality."https://www.shema.com/ten-evidences-that-demonstrate-that-the-bible-is-the-divinely-inspired-word-of-god-272/
    Thank you for expressing your beliefs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guyver
    replied
    Originally posted by ok doser View Post
    What proof would you accept?
    Real proof would be fine thank you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guyver
    replied
    Clete said....

    Lastly, you claim to believe in a higher power and now reject the existence of God. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Which is it? Do you believe that there is a God or don't you?
    I never said I reject the existence of God. What you have said is untrue.

    You know how you said you don't like liars? Me either. Get right and read the thread or stop talking to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • ok doser
    replied
    Originally posted by Guyver View Post
    Clete said, "There many some religions that aren't but anything what is unfalsifiable is irrational anyway and would have been rejected by your "rational thought process" by which you claim to have rejected the world's religions.

    Christianity is an excellent example of a totally falsifiable religion. It is falsifiable in several ways but perhaps the most important is stated by the Apostle Paul himself...

    I Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty."

    Great. Now all you have to do is prove Jesus is alive (resurrected) and you win.
    What proof would you accept?

    Leave a comment:


  • Guyver
    replied
    Clete said, "There many some religions that aren't but anything what is unfalsifiable is irrational anyway and would have been rejected by your "rational thought process" by which you claim to have rejected the world's religions.

    Christianity is an excellent example of a totally falsifiable religion. It is falsifiable in several ways but perhaps the most important is stated by the Apostle Paul himself...

    I Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty."

    Great. Now all you have to do is prove Jesus is alive (resurrected) and you win.

    Leave a comment:

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