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  • Guyver
    replied
    Originally posted by Clete View Post
    So then by what method have you falsified all of the worlds religions of which you are aware?

    Clete
    Rational thought process. I think I did say that I do believe in the twelve step recovery program of AA. That I believe is a true religion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guyver
    replied
    Originally posted by Clete View Post
    Well, hopefully, what he means is that he would allow the truth to change his belief and that the truth is true whether one believes it or not.
    Yes. That is well said.

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  • Guyver
    replied
    Originally posted by ok doser View Post
    To that I would add "what exactly do you ( [MENTION=8654]Guyver[/MENTION]) mean by "truth supersedes belief"?

    For example - it is a truth that, as I am typing this, my clock displays 9:22

    I believe that [MENTION=8654]Guyver[/MENTION] will read this, sometime in the next day or so

    Does that truth "supersede" that belief?
    In this case, the truth and your belief were the same. So that’s a good thing. But that is not always the case.

    Clete, I know that truth supersedes belief because truth is always true, but beliefs may be true or false. Beliefs are true in the mind of the person who believes, but even that can change over time.

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  • Clete
    replied
    Originally posted by ok doser View Post
    To that I would add "what exactly do you ( [MENTION=8654]Guyver[/MENTION]) mean by "truth supersedes belief"?

    For example - it is a truth that, as I am typing this, my clock displays 9:22

    I believe that [MENTION=8654]Guyver[/MENTION] will read this, sometime in the next day or so

    Does that truth "supersede" that belief?
    Well, hopefully, what he means is that he would allow the truth to change his belief and that the truth is true whether one believes it or not.

    Leave a comment:


  • ok doser
    replied
    Originally posted by Clete View Post
    How do you know that truth supersedes belief?
    To that I would add "what exactly do you ( [MENTION=8654]Guyver[/MENTION]) mean by "truth supersedes belief"?

    For example - it is a truth that, as I am typing this, my clock displays 9:22

    I believe that [MENTION=8654]Guyver[/MENTION] will read this, sometime in the next day or so

    Does that truth "supersede" that belief?

    Leave a comment:


  • Clete
    replied
    Originally posted by Guyver View Post
    “When I do good I feel good, and when I do bad, I feel bad. And that is my religion.” Abraham Lincoln, 16th President of the United States of America 1809-1865. Known as the president who freed the slaves, Abraham Lincoln is known as one of our greatest leaders ever. But this thread is not about Abraham Lincoln, this thread is about my religion.

    I am pleased to have the opportunity to discuss it, because it was the chief goal of my intellectual and spiritual efforts for so many years...that is the practice of “right religion.”

    Yet, earlier on this forum I claimed that I have no religion. I should clarify that. To be more precise, I reject all of the worlds religions of which I am aware.

    Like Abraham Lincoln, a take a more simple and straightforward approach to religion. In my practice, I seek and venerate truth. I hope to be able to discuss this, and offer my views of God and my religion in this thread.
    So then by what method have you falsified all of the worlds religions of which you are aware?

    I'm not asking for a separate answer for each religion, I want to know generally what sort of method you used to declare all of the worlds religions false. Did you just arbitrarily toss them all collectively into the trash bin or did you actually have some systematic method of determining they're veracity (or lack thereof)?

    So, the first principle of my religion is that truth supersedes belief.
    This happens to be a substantial step down the road toward Christianity but let's not get ahead of ourselves...


    How do you know that truth supersedes belief?

    That's a real question, by the way. I'm not trying to be clever.

    Clete

    P.S. I've not read through the thread yet. If this post is too much of a reset then just say so. If there is a particular section of the discussion I should read before jumping in, just point it out. In the mean time, I'll try to read through and get more of the gist of the existing discussion.

    P.S.S. Just noticing the last few posts...

    The word "True" means "Consistent". Consistent with what depends on the context in which the word is being used. If you lay floor tiles for a living then "true" means that your flooring is laid consistent with some standard like an adjacent wall or a chalk line as well as with the other flooring including all of the tiles you've just laid. If it is all consistently flat and level and even, etc it is said to be laid "true".

    In the context of philosophy, the word "True" or "Truth" simply means that an idea or concept is consistent both with itself and with reality. Pursuant to this idea of truth, there are three axioms upon which all knowledge and discourse is necessarily based...

    1. What is is. A is A.
    This is known as the law of identity. It is the most fundamental statement of truth that can be made. It has the following corollary...

    2. Any truth claim is either true or it is false.
    This is known as the law of excluded middle. A truth claim cannot be both true (i.e. consistent with reality) and false in a specific context. And, as before, it has a corollary...

    3. Any two truth claims that contradict each other cannot both be true at the same time in and the same way.
    This is known as the law of contradiction. It is similar to the previous law but applies when truth claims are in conflict with each other and not reality itself.

    There is no truth that can violate any of these three laws of reason. No argument can be made without making use of these laws. Thus any attempt to counter these laws is self-defeating! They are therefore true because of the rational impossibility of the contrary. That's why they are called "axioms". (There are others.)

    Clete
    Last edited by Clete; August 17th, 2019, 06:00 AM.

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  • Nang
    replied
    Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Truth is a statement of reality.
    What can be realized, is merely a witness of Truth.

    But which is absolute? Which is total and inexhaustible?

    Mortal conception of reality is only partial and subjective.

    Truth is immortal and objectively Divine . .

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  • Guyver
    replied
    Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Truth is a statement of reality.
    Good. Yes it is. Django doesn’t seem to agree with that.

    Leave a comment:


  • JudgeRightly
    replied
    Originally posted by Guyver View Post
    We obviously don’t speakka the same lingadee.

    How do you define truth?
    Truth is a statement of reality.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guyver
    replied
    Originally posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    I don't know what (if anything) you mean by "true by nature", but such things as dogs, cats, stones, trees, and automobiles are not true (and they are also not false). Yeah, they exist; no, they are not true.

    If you consider a dog, a cat, a stone, a toothbrush, and a can of beans to be things that are true, try believing those things; after all, isn't it wise to believe whatever is true? Try believing a cat. Try believing a can of beans.

    Perhaps you'd like to say that a Ritz cracker is true? Take one and break it in two. I suppose you'd like to call each of those pieces a "half-truth"?

    To be true is not the same as to exist. To exist is not the same as to be true.
    We obviously don’t speakka the same lingadee.

    How do you define truth?

    Leave a comment:

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