The Biblical reason why we were part of the body of Christ BEFORE He died...

Samie

New member
Are we aware of the reason?

If not, then it's about time we delve deeper into Scriptures about the One New Man that Christ created in Himself:

NIV Ephesians 2:

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,

15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,

16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.
 

aikido7

BANNED
Banned
John has Jesus’ dying a full 24 hours BEFORE Mark, Matthew and Luke tell us.

All the evangelists had their own agendas.

Part of John’s view was that Jesus was the Lamb of God sacrificed for humankind’s sins.

That’s why he asserts that Jesus died on the Day of Preparation when the lambs were slaughtered for the next day’s Passover Holiday meal.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Are we aware of the reason?

If not, then it's about time we delve deeper into Scriptures about the One New Man that Christ created in Himself:

NIV Ephesians 2:

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,

15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,

16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

Why do you assume anyone was a member of the Body of Christ before He died?

I don't get what you're saying here.
 

Samie

New member
Why do you assume anyone was a member of the Body of Christ before He died?

I don't get what you're saying here.
I suggest you engage in a deeper study of the One New Man that Christ created in Himself. It was how I arrived at that conclusion. I hope and pray that thru the guidance of the Holy Spirit you will arrive at the same conclusion, too.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace

Are not the words "by abolishing in his flesh" referring to the Lord Jesus' death (Col.1:22) and that death is what created one new man (in Himself), the body of Christ?
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
I suggest you engage in a deeper study of the One New Man that Christ created in Himself. It was how I arrived at that conclusion. I hope and pray that thru the guidance of the Holy Spirit you will arrive at the same conclusion, too.

So you're not offering any evidence? How about just a little bit of evidence?

Here ya go. Let's discuss the "new man" shall we?

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:​
 

Samie

New member
So you're not offering any evidence? How about just a little bit of evidence?
An exegetical analysis of Eph 2:14-16 reveals that the One New Man was created so that the TWO (2) - Jews & Gentiles - might be united in One Body which will be reconciled to God thru the cross. It then follows that the objective of making the 2 groups into 1 body is to effect reconciliation through the cross. Hence, the making into 1 body PRECEDES the state of being reconciled to God through the cross.

And because the death of the Head reconciled His Body - the body of the One New Man - to God (Rom 5:10; Col 1:21, 22), it necessarily follows that the existence of that which is to be reconciled to God MUST PRECEDE the act that effected the reconciliation. otherwise there is nothing to reconcile.

Therefore, we were already In Christ, being His Body, the Body of the One New Man to be reconciled to God, prior to His death - the act that effected our reconciliation.

KJV Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 

clefty

New member
Are we aware of the reason?

If not, then it's about time we delve deeper into Scriptures about the One New Man that Christ created in Himself:

NIV Ephesians 2:

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,

15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,

16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

It was always first BY FAITH...and then ONE LAW for the jew and foreigners...foreigners who wished to come into and belong to His people...Ex 20:10...oh and ask faithful Ruth Ruth 1:16

Poor Stephen before he was stoned made mention that the One he saw in Glory above was the same Head of the ekklessia in the wilderness...Acts 7:38 one group His people...

Sadly that wall Yahushua destroyed between jew and gentile has been replaced once again...with teaching the Law was to the jew...Grace to the rest...it is false witness the customs of Moses are changed by Him...Acts 6:13-14

But back then some gentiles in that group (His body) flanked that wall by becoming jews first and then became believers...

These were present that Pentecost Acts 2:5...and became believers in Him...

Or like Cornelius who was devout and feared Yah with all his household...He was in this body which is WHY he was called to Peter to hear of Yahushua and readily accepted...Acts 10

See? Faith compelling obedience destroys that wall between jew and goyim...

Paul in Ephesians has believers as sovereign citizens of Israel Eph 2:19 His household...

Undivided...NO WALL...meaning not divided between those that do (jews) and those that do NOT...or cuz they get MAD they think it is not for them to do...
 
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Truster

New member
Are we aware of the reason?

If not, then it's about time we delve deeper into Scriptures about the One New Man that Christ created in Himself:

NIV Ephesians 2:

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,

15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,

16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

The reason that this doctrine is so disgusting is that it attempts to deny the necessity of justification. It states wrongly that being in Messiah we have already obtained the justness unto holiness necessary to be found in the beloved.
 

Samie

New member
The reason that this doctrine is so disgusting is that it attempts to deny the necessity of justification. It states wrongly that being in Messiah we have already obtained the justness unto holiness necessary to be found in the beloved.
Can you possibly share your thoughts on what the One New Man Christ created in Himself is and the reason why He created it, as the Bible says in Eph 2:14-16?
 

Truster

New member
Can you possibly share your thoughts on what the One New Man Christ created in Himself is and the reason why He created it, as the Bible says in Eph 2:14-16?

The reason why he created the one new man was that it was The Father's will.

This is a more accurate translation and may shed light for you, or not.

For he is our shalom — who made both one
and loosed the middle hedge of partition;
15 inactivating the enmity in his flesh,
even the torah, misvoth in dogmas;
that through himself
he created the two into one new human,
making shalom;
16 and that he fully reconciled both to Elohim
in one body through the stake,
having slaughtered the enmity therein:
17 and came and evangelized shalom
— to you who were afar off
and to them who were near.
18 For through him, in one Spirit,
we both have access to the Father.​
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
An exegetical analysis of Eph 2:14-16 reveals that the One New Man was created so that the TWO (2) - Jews & Gentiles - might be united in One Body which will be reconciled to God thru the cross. It then follows that the objective of making the 2 groups into 1 body is to effect reconciliation through the cross. Hence, the making into 1 body PRECEDES the state of being reconciled to God through the cross.

And because the death of the Head reconciled His Body - the body of the One New Man - to God (Rom 5:10; Col 1:21, 22), it necessarily follows that the existence of that which is to be reconciled to God MUST PRECEDE the act that effected the reconciliation. otherwise there is nothing to reconcile.

Therefore, we were already In Christ, being His Body, the Body of the One New Man to be reconciled to God, prior to His death - the act that effected our reconciliation.

KJV Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

You seem to think it's a done deal....being reconciled by His death. Yet, something remains.

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.​
 

Samie

New member
The reason why he created the one new man was that it was The Father's will.

This is a more accurate translation and may shed light for you, or not.

For he is our shalom — who made both one
and loosed the middle hedge of partition;
15 inactivating the enmity in his flesh,
even the torah, misvoth in dogmas;
that through himself
he created the two into one new human,
making shalom;
16 and that he fully reconciled both to Elohim
in one body through the stake,
having slaughtered the enmity therein:
17 and came and evangelized shalom
— to you who were afar off
and to them who were near.
18 For through him, in one Spirit,
we both have access to the Father.​
The translation you proffered speaks the same thing as other translations do. The One New Man was created by Christ in Himself.
 

clefty

New member
You seem to think it's a done deal....being reconciled by His death. Yet, something remains.

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.​

Ambassadors for Christ of which Law? The one of the Nation you are a citizen of or one you raptured yourself from keeping as it wasnt dispensed to you?
 

clefty

New member
The translation you proffered speaks the same thing as other translations do. The One New Man was created by Christ in Himself.

Yeah but this translation says torah...so it looks like the new creation created by Christ does NOT observe torah...

Despite that it is the enmity which is inactivated not the torah...
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Ambassadors for Christ of which Law?

Certainly NOT any law we have been delivered from. :rolleyes:

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.​

Rather, if you bothered to read what Paul writes here, he makes it clear what it means to be ambassadors for Christ. If you need to be schooled on this text, I'm sure you could put off your jesting long enough to learn. Dare we wait? :popcorn:

2 Cor. 15:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.​



The one of the Nation you are a citizen of or one you raptured yourself from keeping as it wasnt dispensed to you?

I'm not a citizen of any Nation. My citizenship is in heaven. Philippians 3:20

Ah, the rapture again. That must be why you're so jealous....exactly like we're told the Jews would be. The unlearned always manage to mock what they don't understand. Romans 11:11
 

Samie

New member
Having been created by Christ in Himself, what's next?

Having been created by Christ in Himself, what's next?

You seem to think it's a done deal....being reconciled by His death. Yet, something remains.

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.​
Yes, something remains.

The wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). Hence, when a man commits sin, he must die so he can pay for his own sin he committed, for it is only through death that he can be freed from sin.

KJV Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

But if man himself dies so he can pay for his own sin, he would have paid for the sin God hates, but God would have eternally lost the sinner He loves, having died separate from Him because sin separates man from God (Isa 59:2). Hence God, made a way whereby man could pay for his own sin and at the same time given another shot at life eternal.

God did this through the One New Man that Christ created in Himself: the Head is Christ, the Body is humanity - Jews & Gentiles - with all its sins, as Scriptures declare:

NAS 1 Peter 2:24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

When the Head died, the Body likewise died:

NKJ 2 Corinthians 5: 14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again

KJV Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1. That death reconciled us - His Body - to God:

NKJ Romans 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

2. That death washed us clean from sin:

NKJ Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood

3. That death caused us to be forgiven from all sins:

KJV Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

NAS Colossians 2:13 And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions

4. That death sanctified or made us holy:

NKJ Hebrews 10:10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

NIV Hebrews 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

5. And having been sanctified, He perfected us forever:

KJV Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

6. Through that death, He became the Mediator of the New Covenant:

NKJ Hebrews 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

7. And under the New Covenant, God promises to remember our sins NO MORE:

NKJ Hebrews 10: 16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them," 17 then He adds, "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."

Our dying together with Christ, was even more emphasized by the apostle Paul when in writing to the Galatians he said that he was crucified with Christ:

KJV Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Please take note that Paul was converted a couple of years AFTER the crucifixion, yet his statement blatantly tells us of his being crucified with our Lord, an event that occurred BEFORE he became a believer.

Therefore, our being in Christ having been created In Him through the creation of the One New Man did not result from our conversion, just like the experience of the apostle Paul who said he was crucified with Christ long before his conversion on the road to Damascus.

Having died together with Christ, the Bible says that we were made alive together with Him.

NAS Colossians 2:13 And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions

The 4-word English phrase "made alive together with" is from a single Greek word "suzoopoieo". To be made-alive-together-with Christ simply means that when Christ resurrected, we also were resurrected together with Him, being His body when He died - the Body of the One New Man, and hence, precludes the idea of being made alive one-at-a-time, as in, as each one believes. And through that resurrection, God caused us to be born again:

NAS 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

Created in Christ through the One New Man that Christ created in Himself BEFORE He died, crucified with Christ and made alive TOGETHER WITH Him Who is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, we all are physically born into this world ALREADY in Christ, already part of His Body - the Church, already members of the family of God!!!

Good news for all, isn't it?

Yes, good news for all - Christians and non-Christians alike, because this tells us that we all are part of the body of Christ. We are all In Christ.

But does this mean that we all will make it to heaven and eternity? No sir! Why? Because there is yet blotting out of names from the book of life (Exo 32:32; Ps 69:28). And to be blotted out from the book of life is to be removed from the registry of heaven, dismembered from the Body of Christ, expelled from membership in the family of God.

But our Savior assures us that overcomers will NOT be blotted out (Rev 3:5); instead, they will be seated with Him in His throne even as He also overcame and sat down with the Father in His throne (Rev 3:21).

Therefore, overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21).
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Yes, something remains.

The wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). Hence, when a man commits sin, he must die so he can pay for his own sin he committed, for it is only through death that he can be freed from sin.

KJV Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Good grief...too long, so I'll just address what I see as your first error.

Paul is not referring to our physical death, which would not free us from sin or it's consequences.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.​

Now, if you agree with that, then, please, post something in bite sized pieces so we can chew it up and digest it.
 

Samie

New member
Good grief...too long, so I'll just address what I see as your first error.

Paul is not referring to our physical death, which would not free us from sin or it's consequences.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.​

Now, if you agree with that, then, please, post something in bite sized pieces so we can chew it up and digest it.
Paul told the Galatians he is crucified with Christ. That simply reiterates what he wrote the Ephesians about the body of the One New Man being Jews and Gentiles made into one body, that he, a Jew, being part of it, is likewise part of the body of Christ thru the One New Man Christ created in Himself PRIOR to His crucifixion. Hence, he was in Christ when Christ was crucified and therefore was crucified together with Christ.

Same case applies to all.
 

clefty

New member
Paul told the Galatians he is crucified with Christ. That simply reiterates what he wrote the Ephesians about the body of the One New Man being Jews and Gentiles made into one body, that he, a Jew, being part of it, is likewise part of the body of Christ thru the One New Man Christ created in Himself PRIOR to His crucifixion. Hence, he was in Christ when Christ was crucified and therefore was crucified together with Christ.

Same case applies to all.

The issue is spiritual...IN HIM there is neither jew nor goyim...but citizen of Israel...His people...
 
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