LOL ...... for some reason you left out the Scripture stating this.
Oh ...... that's right, there is none .... this is just your own words, spouting your own theory.
Jehovah alone is the creator of the Universe.
- Thread starter Dartman
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Oh ...... that's right, there is none .... this is just your own words, spouting your own theory.
Please provide a post where I made this statement exactly as you quoted.
LOL ... you try to disprove that your theory is conjecture with more conjecture!!
Matthew 5:37; John 1:1, 14
Now, are you going to reply to the rest of my post?
God Or Jesus?
[2Co 5:18–21
[18] Now all things [are] of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
[19] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
[20] Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore [you] on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God.
[21] For He made Him who knew no sin [to be] sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
[Act 2:22
[22] "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know--
[Jhn 14:10
[10] "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own [authority]; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
[Jhn 6:29
[29] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
[Phl 2:12–13
[12] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
[13] for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for [His] good pleasure.
[Jhn 4:48
[48] Then Jesus said to him, "Unless you [people] see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe."
xxx Truth is truth. The devil is constantly trying to cause confusion and deception. Jesus didnt do any miracles, God done the miracles throught Jesus. Because Jesus submitted Himself to the will of God. Just like we are to submit to the will of God. The devil just doesnt want you to speak the truth.
[Mat 12:39
[39] But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
[2Th 2:4–5, 7–12
[4] who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
[5] Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? ...
[7] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains [will do so] until He is taken out of the way.
[8] And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
[9] The coming of the [lawless one] is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
[10] and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
[12] that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
[2Co 11:13–15
[13] For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
[14] And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
[15] Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
[2Co 5:18–21
[18] Now all things [are] of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
[19] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
[20] Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore [you] on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God.
[21] For He made Him who knew no sin [to be] sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
[Act 2:22
[22] "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know--
[Jhn 14:10
[10] "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own [authority]; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
[Jhn 6:29
[29] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
[Phl 2:12–13
[12] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
[13] for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for [His] good pleasure.
[Jhn 4:48
[48] Then Jesus said to him, "Unless you [people] see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe."
xxx Truth is truth. The devil is constantly trying to cause confusion and deception. Jesus didnt do any miracles, God done the miracles throught Jesus. Because Jesus submitted Himself to the will of God. Just like we are to submit to the will of God. The devil just doesnt want you to speak the truth.
[Mat 12:39
[39] But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
[2Th 2:4–5, 7–12
[4] who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
[5] Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? ...
[7] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains [will do so] until He is taken out of the way.
[8] And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
[9] The coming of the [lawless one] is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
[10] and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
[12] that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
[2Co 11:13–15
[13] For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
[14] And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
[15] Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
This is Unitarian Christology.
What you’ve done is establish that you have no intention of considering anything except your false position, so there’s really no need for anyone to continue in discourse with you.
I’ve never been attempting to convince you; only to get you to hopefully understand that you constantly violate the application of Greek grammar and terms every time you attempt to address this topic.
I’m fine with you remaining a Unitarian antichrist heretic. It’s of no consequence to me.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Oh, okay. Well, if you consider word meanings to be conjecture, then I’ll take my leave. Keep your heresy. It doesn’t affect me in the least.
Apple7
New member
You and Trev hold to the same theory that an 'angel' spoke to Ezekiel.
Looks like you can't help Trevor out....too bad...
But NOT in Ezekiel.
:cigar:
Apple7
New member
Who do you think wrote the Book of Ezekiel?
Then defend your stance.
Jesus said that he did.
Apple7
New member
The First Person of The Trinity commanded Moses to cut two tablets of stone (Deut 10.1; Exo 34.1 – 4), as spoken to Moses by The Second Person of The Trinity (Deut 4.12 – 13; Deut 5.22; Deut 9.10; Deut 10.4), and written by the Third Person of The Trinity (Exo 31.18; Deut 9.10).
:cigar:
Greetings again Apple7,
Jeremiah 36:1–4 (KJV): 1 And it came to pass in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that this word came unto Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, 2 Take thee a roll of a book, and write therein all the words that I have spoken unto thee against Israel, and against Judah, and against all the nations, from the day I spake unto thee, from the days of Josiah, even unto this day. 3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin. 4 Then Jeremiah called Baruch the son of Neriah: and Baruch wrote from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the LORD, which he had spoken unto him, upon a roll of a book.
I find no evidence that the Scribe recognised Jesus as the One God in this discussion, and even the term “there is none other but he” does not seem to include Jesus but he is speaking about the One God, God the Father in heaven.
Deuteronomy 4:35,39 (KJV): 35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. 39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
I also suggest that the Scribe could have been alluding to or quoting the above.
Kind regards
Trevor
Ezekiel is one of the writing prophets. Under inspiration by means of the Holy Spirit, Ezekiel wrote some of the things that he spoke. Whether he used a scribe like Baruch with Jeremiah, or wrote the Word of God directly himself on a scroll is not recorded.
Jeremiah 36:1–4 (KJV): 1 And it came to pass in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that this word came unto Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, 2 Take thee a roll of a book, and write therein all the words that I have spoken unto thee against Israel, and against Judah, and against all the nations, from the day I spake unto thee, from the days of Josiah, even unto this day. 3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin. 4 Then Jeremiah called Baruch the son of Neriah: and Baruch wrote from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the LORD, which he had spoken unto him, upon a roll of a book.
We have discussed this and I was surprised that you persistently tried to impose the Trinity on the OT teaching concerning Yahweh and Elohim.
Mark 12:28–34 (KJV): 28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
I find no evidence that the Scribe recognised Jesus as the One God in this discussion, and even the term “there is none other but he” does not seem to include Jesus but he is speaking about the One God, God the Father in heaven.
Deuteronomy 4:35,39 (KJV): 35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. 39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
I also suggest that the Scribe could have been alluding to or quoting the above.
Kind regards
Trevor
Not until we fully discuss your failure.
Matt 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
Technically, Jesus says four words in this commandment.
And, I am pretty sure even you would agree this text is NOT commanding us to use one word communication EVERY TIME we speak.
The commandment begins in verse 33, and records Christ's prohibition against ANY swearing .... and he gives several examples of what NOT to do, and he then explains what we ARE supposed to do, Let our Yes mean Yes, and our No mean No..... there is to be the same level of commitment to truth in ANY communication (logos) we speak.
So, no this one doesn't work for you.
Your attempt to use John 1 is what we call "begging the question", let me know if you can't find that one on google.
So, you need to admit the OBVIOUS truth ...... there isn't a single example of logos singular being limited to one word...... and there are MANY that prove logos singular is used for words, sayings, etc.
LOL .... not one of those texts uses the language you are trying to force upon them.
You fail.
It isn't clear it was an angel in this text;
Eze 1:3 the word of Jehovah came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of Jehovah was there upon him.
Nor is that possibility ruled out.
Exegesis requires harmony within the context, and with ALL Scripture,
Your efforts are transparent, dishonest and pointless.
Apple7
New member
Incorrect.
The passage you quoted is crystal clear to any serious student of scripture.
No angel makes an appearance in Ezekiel.
The only appearance of an angel is in your delusional mind...
Apple7
New member
So...according to you, The Holy Spirit now speaks.
You offer no scriptural alternative.
Why do you insist on ignoring the original languages?
Lon
Well-known member
Hmmm, let's see:
Colossians 1:15-20? No, we cannot pit scripture against scripture and MUST reconcile ALL scriptures therefore I am necessarily (by scripture's demands) triune (Trinitarian). To me, it is the ONLY viable scriptural position, though some Unitarians I've chatted with seem to be closet-Triune whether they know it or not. Jesus is God, CLEARLY given by the scriptures. It's foolish to not admit to what scripture presents lest you find yourself fighting against God very God. That CERTAINLY is no place I want to see you or any other spinning their wheels on TOL. It helps nothing. The only thing good that can come from wrestling with the scriptures, is not arguing with other men, but actually knowing the God as portrayed by the scriptures because he/she will surely be wrestling with God, not man.
Greetings again Apple7,
2 Peter 1:19–21 (KJV): 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation (or origination). 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
Perhaps you want to make another victory lap while some favourite victory song is played.
A brief summary of some of the things that I have presented, and although you have responded to most of this, all of your arrows have missed the mark.
1. Jesus was conceived and born with God the Father as his father and Mary as his mother, and as such he was born the Son of God Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:34-35, John 1:14.
2. As a child he grew in wisdom and in favour with God and man Luke 2:40, 52.
3. Exodus 3:14-15 should be translated in the future tense “I will be” and “He will be” as per Tyndale and RV and RSV margins and some modern scholars, and verified by Exodus 3:12 and speaks of God’s purpose to deliver Israel out of Egypt and bring them into the land Exodus 6:1-8.
4. There is thus no direct link between Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58. John 8:58 is better understood as part of a theme in John’s Gospel concerning whether Jesus is the Christ the Son of God and this is clearly seen in John 8:24,28.
5. Yahweh is God the Father and the distinction between Yahweh, God the Father and David’s Lord, our Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God is clearly revealed in Psalm 110:1, and verified by the numerous NT expositions of this verse.
6. John 10:30-36 introduces us to the fact that Elohim is used for the judges and Jesus uses this fact to claim that he is the Son of God.
7. Genesis 1:26-27 is speaking of God and the Angels and this is confirmed by David’s summary of this in Psalm 8:4-6. Jesus was made a little lower than the angels.
The above should be sufficient to remind you of some of our discussion.
Kind regards
Trevor
You seem to be the only one that is confused as to whether “The Word of God” is the 2nd Person of the Trinity in Ezekiel or the 3rd Person of the Trinity when The Word of God came to John in the wilderness. Ezekiel spoke God’s words and he was even dumb in between his various pronouncements from God, clearly demonstrating that what he said was not his own words but the Word of God. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with:
2 Peter 1:19–21 (KJV): 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation (or origination). 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
Perhaps you have a short memory, and you have already claimed victory, and done your victory lap with an enlarged version of your avatar on your flag as you run around the stadium to the accompaniment of “I am the very model of a modern ..”.
Perhaps you want to make another victory lap while some favourite victory song is played.
A brief summary of some of the things that I have presented, and although you have responded to most of this, all of your arrows have missed the mark.
1. Jesus was conceived and born with God the Father as his father and Mary as his mother, and as such he was born the Son of God Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:34-35, John 1:14.
2. As a child he grew in wisdom and in favour with God and man Luke 2:40, 52.
3. Exodus 3:14-15 should be translated in the future tense “I will be” and “He will be” as per Tyndale and RV and RSV margins and some modern scholars, and verified by Exodus 3:12 and speaks of God’s purpose to deliver Israel out of Egypt and bring them into the land Exodus 6:1-8.
4. There is thus no direct link between Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58. John 8:58 is better understood as part of a theme in John’s Gospel concerning whether Jesus is the Christ the Son of God and this is clearly seen in John 8:24,28.
5. Yahweh is God the Father and the distinction between Yahweh, God the Father and David’s Lord, our Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God is clearly revealed in Psalm 110:1, and verified by the numerous NT expositions of this verse.
6. John 10:30-36 introduces us to the fact that Elohim is used for the judges and Jesus uses this fact to claim that he is the Son of God.
7. Genesis 1:26-27 is speaking of God and the Angels and this is confirmed by David’s summary of this in Psalm 8:4-6. Jesus was made a little lower than the angels.
The above should be sufficient to remind you of some of our discussion.
Another one of your bent or crooked arrows.
Kind regards
Trevor
Apple7
New member
Incorrect.
There is absolutely zero confusion.
Ezekiel writes that both the 'Word of God'(SON) came to him speaking and talking, and that 'The Hand of God' (HOLY SPIRIT) also came upon him.
'The Word of God' does the speaking to Ezekiel, hundreds of times just in this one book (NOT an angel as you ignorantly claim)...while the 'Hand of God' does NO speaking.
'The Word of God' that came to John does NOT speak, and is shown to be a different Greek word than Logos, used for The Son....thus, The Holy Spirit came upon John, just as already declared to you pages ago...
Apple7
New member
How does God speak without a mouth?
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