Dispensationalism
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
Differences in identities and economies and how said differences impact the particular people living within one economy, or another.
Example, before the Volstad Act was dispensed, and made the law of the land - in the U.S - it was legal to consume alcohol.
While, during what could be referred to as the Dispensation of the Volstad Act, it was not legal to consume alcohol.
Then, after the Volstad Act was repealed, its Depensation ended, and with that, drinking alcohol was once more legal.
A Dispensation is an Economy, House Rule, or Administration that has an impact on a wide scale.
As in the Reagan Administration, or as in the Bush Administration.
Each of which has to be Rightly Divided as to each their characteristics or risk mixing them up as one and the same - as a "one size fits all" - like most on here do, with Scripture.
Case in point, the Bush Administration - which one is being referred to - for there were two of them, and they were not the same. One needs to Rightly Divide them as to those Things That Differ between them.
The following is another example of a Dispensational Distinction, of many, that one finds in Scripture - a distinction in identities between the Nation Israel and all other Nations of the Earth Dispensed by God, to Israel, through Moses...
Deuteronomy 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?
The Law essentially Identified who were God's People (the Nation Israel), and who were not (all the other Nations).
It essentially erected a barrier or Dividing Line between the Nation Israel and all other Nations, for many, many centuries, given God's Purpose through that Division.
Here is another aspect of that SAME Dispensation, or Economy and its Different Identities...
Exodus 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Again, we see a Distinction in Identities - between the Nation Israel, and all other Nations of the Earth.
And such Dispensations, Economies, or Administrations, and the People they impact, follow a Time Line...
Notice, for example, not only the Apostle Paul's use of Time Line language, in the following, but his understanding of Right Divisions Between them...
Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Here is one more Distinction revealing Time Line language...
Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
The information in this post is how I ended up at the Mid-Acts Dispensationalism that I hold to.
It contains some of the very first Distinctions between things that differ from one another, in Scripture, that I first understood:
Which is basically that Scripture appears to follow a Three-Fold Division of Time, and that things that might apply within one Dispensation, might not necessarily apply within another Dispensation.
Time Past
But Now
The Ages to Come
Acts 17: 11, 12.
Example, before the Volstad Act was dispensed, and made the law of the land - in the U.S - it was legal to consume alcohol.
While, during what could be referred to as the Dispensation of the Volstad Act, it was not legal to consume alcohol.
Then, after the Volstad Act was repealed, its Depensation ended, and with that, drinking alcohol was once more legal.
A Dispensation is an Economy, House Rule, or Administration that has an impact on a wide scale.
As in the Reagan Administration, or as in the Bush Administration.
Each of which has to be Rightly Divided as to each their characteristics or risk mixing them up as one and the same - as a "one size fits all" - like most on here do, with Scripture.
Case in point, the Bush Administration - which one is being referred to - for there were two of them, and they were not the same. One needs to Rightly Divide them as to those Things That Differ between them.
The following is another example of a Dispensational Distinction, of many, that one finds in Scripture - a distinction in identities between the Nation Israel and all other Nations of the Earth Dispensed by God, to Israel, through Moses...
Deuteronomy 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?
The Law essentially Identified who were God's People (the Nation Israel), and who were not (all the other Nations).
It essentially erected a barrier or Dividing Line between the Nation Israel and all other Nations, for many, many centuries, given God's Purpose through that Division.
Here is another aspect of that SAME Dispensation, or Economy and its Different Identities...
Exodus 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Again, we see a Distinction in Identities - between the Nation Israel, and all other Nations of the Earth.
And such Dispensations, Economies, or Administrations, and the People they impact, follow a Time Line...
Notice, for example, not only the Apostle Paul's use of Time Line language, in the following, but his understanding of Right Divisions Between them...
Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Here is one more Distinction revealing Time Line language...
Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
The information in this post is how I ended up at the Mid-Acts Dispensationalism that I hold to.
It contains some of the very first Distinctions between things that differ from one another, in Scripture, that I first understood:
Which is basically that Scripture appears to follow a Three-Fold Division of Time, and that things that might apply within one Dispensation, might not necessarily apply within another Dispensation.
Time Past
But Now
The Ages to Come
Acts 17: 11, 12.
wow, this is no way describing Jesus' teachings.
So it is misleading calling yourselves Jesus' followers or Christians.
Avoiding the Sabbath.
binyamin7
Active member
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?131640-Dispensationaism-Proven
I just posted about this in the ECT section. To summarize, God made a clear promise in to Abraham in Gen 15 which was about a specific geographical place called Israel. In Jeremiah 32:20-22 God told us He as long as there is day and night this covenant still stands. In Joel 3 we are told that God brings back Israel (Joel 3:1) and proceeds to judge the nations of the world (Joel 3:2-6)- the first part has happened but not the latter part. In Zech 12-14 we see the nations of the earth coming against Israel (Zech 12:2-3), Israel crying out to God and God sending Jesus to save them (Zech 12:10), Jesus executing opposing armies (Zech 14:3-4), followed by millennial reign (Zech 14:16). This is consistent with what we see in Matt 23:37-39, that Jerusalem will not see Christ again until they say "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord"- exactly what we see in Zech 12:10!
The clearest text explaining this relationship is Romans 9-11 with the culmination being 11:19-32 and more specifically Romans 11:25-26. This states explicitly that after the "fullness of the Gentiles" "all of Israel shall be saved". Extremely clear and distinct. Of course now that we can literally see God bringing back the people to Israel again we can see that this is exactly what He meant.
I just posted about this in the ECT section. To summarize, God made a clear promise in to Abraham in Gen 15 which was about a specific geographical place called Israel. In Jeremiah 32:20-22 God told us He as long as there is day and night this covenant still stands. In Joel 3 we are told that God brings back Israel (Joel 3:1) and proceeds to judge the nations of the world (Joel 3:2-6)- the first part has happened but not the latter part. In Zech 12-14 we see the nations of the earth coming against Israel (Zech 12:2-3), Israel crying out to God and God sending Jesus to save them (Zech 12:10), Jesus executing opposing armies (Zech 14:3-4), followed by millennial reign (Zech 14:16). This is consistent with what we see in Matt 23:37-39, that Jerusalem will not see Christ again until they say "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord"- exactly what we see in Zech 12:10!
The clearest text explaining this relationship is Romans 9-11 with the culmination being 11:19-32 and more specifically Romans 11:25-26. This states explicitly that after the "fullness of the Gentiles" "all of Israel shall be saved". Extremely clear and distinct. Of course now that we can literally see God bringing back the people to Israel again we can see that this is exactly what He meant.
Most christians accept the other 9 of the 10 but to avoid the Sabbath there must be need for a change or destruction or “for the jews ONLY” of the Law...
MADness is the last resort there...as if ”Sabbath is not for us”
The first two remain jewish false witness accusing Stephen and Paul they taught the Law WAS changed or destroyed by Yahushua...
Had Stephen and Paul taught that Law WAS INDEED changed or destroyed this witness of the jews would NOT have been FALSE...
But Luke is clear that this slander by jews WAS FALSE....
Pay no heed to jewish fables Titus 1:14
The Sabbath remains for man...not just jews...
Heb 4:9 confirms Isaiah as he writes WHEN His people will worship in the new heaven and new earth...from Sabbath to Sabbath...
But the MAD need not apply...
why MAD need not apply?
Becasue they claim the Sabbath law...the obedience to that law...doesn't apply to them...
despite this very law being the ONLY one in the initial listing of the 10 specifically given to the native AND the stranger/foreigner... and still again in the NT as given for ALL man and not just jews...says the Lord of the Sabbath...
the Sabbath is the sign of His being the Creator its Creator and thus possessing authority...and a sign He gave to His people...to set them apart make them holy and sanctified like He is...like the Sabbath is...still Holy still set apart...still for His people
Just because they claim it,does not mean it is correct.
Duh...but that is why I said MAD need not apply...they claim they need not apply it to themselves...
nor need they apply to being one of “here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua” or to water baptism or the Lord’s Prayer or the Lord’s supper or foot washing or...they just need apply for grace and only once...not daily
binyamin7
Active member
God absolutely did not forsake the covenant He made with Abraham in Gen 15 unless day and night are no longer (Jer 32:20-22). Day and night still exist.
"blindness in part has happened to Israel UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so ALL OF ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED." -Romans 11:25-26
Zechariah tells us that all the nations will be gathered against Israel (Zech 12:2-3) and Israel will call out to God and then Jesus will show up (Zech 12:10) and they will weep, then Jesus will defend Israel against the opposing armies (Zech 14:3-4) and then the Millennial reign will take place (Zech 14:16). This is consistent with what Jesus said in Matt 23:37-39. Jesus will return to the Pharisees/ natural Jews and Jerusalem when they say "blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord" Matt 23:39.
"blindness in part has happened to Israel UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so ALL OF ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED." -Romans 11:25-26
Zechariah tells us that all the nations will be gathered against Israel (Zech 12:2-3) and Israel will call out to God and then Jesus will show up (Zech 12:10) and they will weep, then Jesus will defend Israel against the opposing armies (Zech 14:3-4) and then the Millennial reign will take place (Zech 14:16). This is consistent with what Jesus said in Matt 23:37-39. Jesus will return to the Pharisees/ natural Jews and Jerusalem when they say "blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord" Matt 23:39.
indeed He did NOT... in fact He sent His Son come to reclaim His bride but she killed Him...death did them part...time for a new wife...
He didn’t like the first wife who committed adultery worshipping other images and other gods and on other days He did not establish, and even Him the way He didnt ask for like with a golden calf, ate pork, got tattoos, materialistic and superficial like jewelry and make up, often publicly drunk...disobedient and not faithful
Why would He want a second wife like that? His taste remains the same...but for another woman...
jews are happily grafted back in but then are no longer jews as IN HIM there are none...just Israel ONE LAW for native and goyim alike...just like in the OT
However you twist and torture these texts if anything at all comes out like what resembles a third temple and a nwo israel...I want no part of that abomination of desolation...not even all jews accept this Zionist apostasy But they wait for their Messiah still...
You are chasing a Christ claimed to be in the “holy” desert or found in the secret places of a man made third temple...I was told NOT to go...
genuineoriginal
New member
Dispensationalism is designed to build a wall separating Christians from Jews.
Dispensationalism claims that the plans God has for Christians are different than the plans God has for Jews.
Dispensationalism claims that Jews have to keep the whole Law and that Christians must avoid any appearance of keeping the Law.
Dispensationalism is used to divide the Bible into verses for Christians (only Paul's writings) and verses for Jews (the rest of the Bible).
How so? Or do you just say it as though it is a matter of fact? The question is if what you say is true.
binyamin7
Active member
That is interesting and all but not Scripture. There are numerous prophecies that were never fulfilled (Joel 3, Ezek 37-39, Zech 12-14). Jesus told the Pharisees and Jerusalem that they would face judgement on that generation and that they WOULD SEE HIM AGAIN when they said "blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord" (Matt 23:39). He did not say He was done with them. Don't be too haughty champ, if God plucked out the natural branches it is not impossible for it to happen to you.
You are wise in your own opinion according to the Bible. "Blindness in part has happened to Israel UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so ALL OF ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED" (Romans 11:25-26). That is exactly what Zech 12:2-3, 10, 14:3-4, 14:16 shows us- none of which has been fulfilled.
Anti-Semite much? Yeah Ezekiel calls that "the ancient hatred".
Nope no chasing needed- just solid good doctrine based on the Text. Christ will return when His feet hit the Mount of Olives, a physical geographic location, and it splits in two (see Zech 14:3-4).
genuineoriginal
New member
I am a non-Dispensationalist Zionist because of how I understand the prophecies in the Bible.
Is it Christians from Jews? And, is this right?
Interesting. What difference in plans, and even for Jews who believe in Jesus?
Interesting. I am a Jew and a Christian and an ex-Dispensationalist.