Hell

[dcon]

Hades is a place .

Hades is a place that contains fire .



the punishment is eternal which is why God had to pay for sin himself

Yes, Hades is a place; it's the common Grave of mankind. There is no fire. Fire is symbolic of complete destruction. Since people can be resurrected from the dead, or Hades, we have no reason to believe that anyone who has died, has been completely destroyed.

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[dcon]

I hope that you can settle this out. For yourself especially.

I have. It's not only what the Bible says, it makes perfect sense, too.

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[Jacob]

I have. It's not only what the Bible says, it makes perfect sense, too.

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Okay.

Shalom.

 

[dcon]

When I have this computer to use I have a computer to do research online. My phone is not the best for research. But I do not know what you are asking me to do. Encouragement in a direction is welcome, but if you have any material to present you may. However, I am not locked into a view of hell. I want the scriptures to say what the truth is because they do.

To verify whether a belief is true and factual, I depend on research through the Bible and other established information. For example, if I'm not sure of a statement made in the KJV, I'll compare it with other versions, and if they all say basically the same thing, then I can be reasonably certain that what is said is true and on point.

My first time doing research like this, was when I was first told that Christmas is all a fraud. I couldn't believe it. Then I did the research, and proved to myself that Christmas is truly a pagan holiday.

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[Jacob]

To verify whether a belief is true and factual, I depend on research through the Bible and other established information. For example, if I'm not sure of a statement made in the KJV, I'll compare it with other versions, and if they all say basically the same thing, then I can be reasonably certain that what is said is true and on point.

My first time doing research like this, was when I was first told that Christmas is all a fraud. I couldn't believe it. Then I did the research, and proved to myself that Christmas is truly a pagan holiday.

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excellent
I think you are saying that you just didn't see Christmas in the Bible.

 

[woodeneye]

excellent
I think you are saying that you just didn't see Christmas in the Bible.

That is one thing. Another is that it's a well established fact that Jesus was not born in December, that date was celebrated because it was when the pagan nations celebrated the birth of the sun, not the Son.
The tree is also of pagan origin. It doesn't matter if people say it's for the children. All the children learn, is that it's okay to lie, as long as it's for a noble cause.

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[Jacob]

That is one thing. Another is that it's a well established fact that Jesus was not born in December, that date was celebrated because it was when the pagan nations celebrated the birth of the sun, not the Son.
The tree is also of pagan origin. It doesn't matter if people say it's for the children. All the children learn, is that it's okay to lie, as long as it's for a noble cause.

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I have good memories from childhood. I remember my Grandmother for how kind she was, even though my memory includes Christmas. I don't celebrate Christmas, but I remember the tree at my Grandmother's house, with an ornament. But Jesus was not born in December because He was not born on the Roman Calendar but the Jewish Calendar. He was a Jew. Of the tribe of Judah. The Only Begotten Son of God.

 

[woodeneye]

I have good memories from childhood. I remember my Grandmother for how kind she was, even though my memory includes Christmas. I don't celebrate Christmas, but I remember the tree at my Grandmother's house, with an ornament. But Jesus was not born in December because He was not born on the Roman Calendar but the Jewish Calendar. He was a Jew. Of the tribe of Judah. The Only Begotten Son of God.

Regardless of when he was born, the whole celebration is a fraud. In Jesus' time, his apostles and other followers never celebrated their birthdays; nor do his true followers today.

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[Jacob]

Regardless of when he was born, the whole celebration is a fraud. In Jesus' time, his apostles and other followers never celebrated their birthdays; nor do his true followers today.

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I do not celebrate my birthday. Some say that this is an age thing, that children celebrate their birthdays. I am not sure about that.

However, there is celebration of birthdays in the Bible I think. I can't remember what I am thinking. About it. About that.

 

[way 2 go]

You seriously think that a person in such a predicament would ask for someone to dip the end of their finger in water and cool their tongue?

:dizzy:

yes I think this is very serious

People being separated from God for eternity
in a fire that does not consume, very serious .

so serious the rich man's next thought was of his family
to warn them


Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
...
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


what about you , do you believe Moses and the prophets about hell?
do you believe Jesus the one risen from the dead about hell?

 

[way 2 go]

Your explanation is at odds with this scripture. So, do you alter your belief, or throw out this verse? You can't have it both ways.
Roman's 6:23
For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord

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There is
1 spiritual death Mat_8:22
2 physical death Mat 8:22
3 there is alive yet dead Rev 20:12
4 death as a place Rev 20:13
5 death as a person Rev 6:8

 

[woodeneye]

There is
1 spiritual death Mat_8:22
2 physical death Mat 8:22
3 there is alive yet dead Rev 20:12
4 death as a place Rev 20:13
5 death as a person Rev 6:8

Deflection never answers the question.

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[way 2 go]

Yes, Hades is a place; it's the common Grave of mankind.

properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls:

There is no fire.

wrong
Luk 16:24 And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.'

Fire is symbolic of complete destruction. Since people can be resurrected from the dead, or Hades, we have no reason to believe that anyone who has died, has been completely destroyed.

:nono:
no fire is not symbolic of complete destruction.

fire before judgement day Luk 16:24 not completely destroying anyone

fire after judgement day

Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

 

[way 2 go]

Deflection never answers the question.

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[Arthur Brain]

yes I think this is very serious

People being separated from God for eternity
in a fire that does not consume, very serious .

so serious the rich man's next thought was of his family
to warn them


Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
...
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


what about you , do you believe Moses and the prophets about hell?
do you believe Jesus the one risen from the dead about hell?

First off, how can you think it's a literal fire if someone who is fully able to feel the heat could speak as such and would ask for something as ineffectual as a drop of water?

Jesus 'descended into hell' didn't He? Was it full of people on fire?

I don't expect you to think particularly deeply on the subject until you can think outside of the manacles of fundamentalist doctrine on the subject to be fair.

 

[woodeneye]

properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls:



wrong
Luk 16:24 And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.'


:nono:
no fire is not symbolic of complete destruction.

fire before judgement day Luk 16:24 not completely destroying anyone

fire after judgement day

Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

In a very short time, Jesus and his Father will decide enough is enough and selectively destroy those who have refused to to obey them. This will not be cruel, it shows their love for the rest of us who have shown our loyalty to them and their Kingdom.

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[way 2 go]

First off, how can you think it's a literal fire if someone who is fully able to feel the heat could speak as such and would ask for something as ineffectual as a drop of water?

first off, not a natural fire
second , the rich man started with a small compromise that would hopefully lead to larger or more compromises .

Jesus 'descended into hell' didn't He? Was it full of people on fire?

Jesus went to Abraham's side.
Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,

I don't expect you to think particularly deeply on the subject until you can think outside of the manacles of fundamentalist doctrine on the subject to be fair.

:wave:

 

[Arthur Brain]

first off, not a natural fire
second , the rich man started with a small compromise that would hopefully lead to larger or more compromises .

Jesus went to Abraham's side.
Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,



:wave:

Well, again, no real point in taking things further until you can think outside of fundamentalism then really.

 

[way 2 go]

In a very short time,

JW's have a new date ?

Jesus and his Father

Jesus is God

 

[way 2 go]

Well, again, no real point in taking things further until you can think outside of fundamentalism then really.

:e4e: