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  • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
    Let’s review, since there’s nothing but crickets from the OP after being refuted by basic grammar.


    Nouns aren’t verbs.

    Pistis is faith. Pistis is a noun.

    Pisteuo is believe. Pisteuo is a verb.

    BelievING is a verb, yes.

    But faith is a noun.

    This is not hard. It’s only difficult because the default for most English speakers is to conceptually transform Greek anarthrous nouns into English verbs.

    This is linguistic fact. It’s inarguable, validly. You’re simply wrong.

    Say believING is a work, but you can’t say faith is a work because it’s a noun. This is very simple.
    how about "having faith"?

    stephen certainly found it difficult - would it have been a "work" if stephen had determined to hold his faith strong before Christ appeared to him?

    is it a work to resist satan when he tests our faith?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
      But the problem is one of the most basic grammatical problems possible, and it’s your lack of understanding rather than others being wrong (even if they don’t understand what makes you wrong and have other issues of doctrine themselves).

      Faith is a noun. Nouns aren’t verbs.

      Believe/believING is a verb. Verbs aren’t nouns.

      Without nouns, there are no corresponding verbs.

      So there MUST be faith as a “thing” before that “thing” can then take action as actING.

      Nouns verb. Things do.

      THE faith is THE thing that comes out of THE message/report, which comes by means of THE Word of God.

      When you see the verb form indicating believe/believING, it’s because God has given the noun that does that actING. Man cannot believe unto salvation without the noun of faith coming out of the noun that is the message/report/news, which comes by means of the Word (Rhema) of God.

      Are you going to recant your error or ignore scriptural correction and continue to contend for untruth?
      You are making a big do about nothing. Faith/Believing is a work In 2 Thess 2:13 the word belief, is it a verb or a noun ?

      13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
      "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
      preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
      called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
      a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

      Charles Spurgeon !

      Comment


      • Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
        You are making a big do about nothing.
        I’m not the one making a big do about anything. You started a thread, to which I responded. And you insisted a noun is a verb, intimating that faith is a verb and is the exact same as believING. Nouns aren’t verbs, though the verb corresponds to the noun.

        Pistis (faith/belief) is NOT pisteuo (believe/believING). Nouns are things. Verbs are actING producing resulting actIONS.

        This is among the most common foundational errors that English speakers make, and then they’re often nearly impossible to correct. This is the case with you, for you have built an entire false doctrinal stance on this faulty platform of erroneous basic grammar.

        Faith/Believing is a work In 2 Thess 2:13 the word belief, is it a verb or a noun ?

        13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
        IT’S A NOUN. It’s pistis, the Greek anarthrous noun. It’s NOT pisteuo, the Greek verb. It’s not an English verb, even though many English speakers attempt to turn this and many other such nouns into verbs.

        Belief comes from Greek as pistis through German as gelauben. Faith comes from Greek as pistis through Latin as fide. That’s why the noun belief resembles the verb believe/believING and faith does not.

        Fide and gelauben are BOTH the noun pistis, which if faith. You’re calling a noun a verb and insisting it’s actING/actION as a work by being a verb. IT’S NOT. IT’S A NOUN.

        Your very proof-texting proves your false claim. Now you have to rethink your entire doctrine built upon this fallacy, but there’s likely no chance of you being corrected by the simplicity of scripture and grammar and doing that. You’re going to fight to the end that a noun is a verb, and thus a work. It’s not. Nouns are nouns and verbs are verbs. Nouns are not verbs. Nouns verb. Things do.

        Faith. Is. A. Noun. The fact that you didn’t and couldn’t even check the grammar before posting yet again is concerning and alarming. You don’t even seem to want to know the truth if you’re wrong, and you are absolutely and completely DEAD WRONG. And so is all the false doctrinal position you’ve built upon this.

        The question is if you’ll be corrected or not. The likely answer is, unfortunately, no. And I find that sad.


        Adding... And the REAL tragedy is that in contending so strongly for your error of Hyper-Calvinism, you miss the fact that faith being a noun is the single absolute scriptural indication of biblical Monergism. That’s right. Faith is a thing that MUST be given by God via some means or man cannot believe of his own mind and will.

        You’re battling, in complete futility, against the strongest biblical position on Monergism; so you’re surrendering all credibilty while not being able to correct the Synergists on this very forum, including the proliferation of Open Theists.

        So now you’ve started a thread based upon error in ignorance, and you’ve attempted to discredit biblical grammar to try to disannul authentic inarguable Monergism. THIS is what arrogance and ignorace does when lethally combined. You should be glad you were corrected. And you didn’t even see how you were undermining the truth of God’s sovereignty in all your bluster and fluster about nothing except false understanding of grammar.

        If I were you, I’d be spending much time considering the errors of my thoughts and ways.
        Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
        “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
          Another example of work salvation, contrary to the Truth
          You have not yet learned to think precisely. when you start to think int terms of God's precision instead of your preferred beliefs, then you will learn
          "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

          "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

          Pro scripture = Protestant

          Comment


          • Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
            You are making a big do about nothing. Faith/Believing is a work In 2 Thess 2:13 the word belief, is it a verb or a noun ?

            13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
            This is one of the most pivotal and absolute scriptures for the sovereignty of God and biblical Monergism. Why would you even think that attacking this verse was in support of your Hyper-Calvinism? It makes no sense. All you’ve done is surrender all credibility and forfeit any means of correcting Synergists. Arrggghhh.
            Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
            “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ok doser View Post
              how about "having faith"?

              stephen certainly found it difficult - would it have been a "work" if stephen had determined to hold his faith strong before Christ appeared to him?

              is it a work to resist satan when he tests our faith?
              I’m not sure why you’re asking here. Are you wanting an answer based on the truth of grammar and lexicography? Or are you attempting to argue a position against what I posted?

              If it’s the latter, then it’s a sad attempt and I’ll address it as such in a subsequent post.

              If it’s the former, then I will gladly explicate the answers to you as a willing heart in search of truth.

              Please let me know which so I can answer appropriately, please. Thanks.
              Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
              “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

              Comment


              • pps

                I’m not the one making a big do about anything.
                Yes you are, you are just wasting time and showing that you dont understand Faith in the bible.

                you insisted a noun is a verb
                Thats a lie, I now Faith is a noun and believing is a verb, I been knowing that for over 30yrs

                IT’S A NOUN. It’s pistis,
                I know that, its a noun being used as a verb belief. The noun primarily means persuasion it comes from the VERB peithó, which results in trust. Again you are wasting my time. Once one trusts or believes as a result of Faith, its [belief,trust] is an act of the mind, a work.

                Again, apples for oranges. Stick with the theme of the thread !
                "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                Charles Spurgeon !

                Comment


                • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
                  I’m not sure why you’re asking here.
                  just curious - seems to me that resisting satan's attempts to weaken our faith could be viewed as a work

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                    pps

                    Yes you are, you are just wasting time and showing that you dont understand Faith in the bible.
                    No. I’ve clearly and exhaustively demonstrated that I am the one who indeed DOES understand faith in the Bible (and in general overall). This is a silly statement of denial based upon cognitive dissonance. How can you even seriously say this?

                    Thats a lie, I now Faith is a noun and believing is a verb, I been knowing that for over 30yrs
                    You said belief was a verb in the 2Thessalonians passage. So you “may” know (doubtful) that faith is a noun and believing is a verb (which doesn’t match the thread title OR your adamant erroneous posts), but you for sure did NOT know that belief is the same noun as faith. You said belief in your poorly proof-texted 2Thess passage was the verb. Go back and look (and look at your own thread title while you’re scrolling, please).

                    You’re just trying to back-peddle, and you’re still trying to throw ME under the bus for correcting you. I understand that human tendency, but why not just admit you were wrong instead of all this continued bluster as though you knew what you didn’t know?

                    Your own thread title says faith/believing in asking if it (which is a they/them, because faith is NOT believing, and you did NOT know that) is a work. This is just CYA deflection and diversion to save face, which cannot happen at this point.

                    I know that, its a noun being used as a verb belief.
                    No. You don’t get to change words and their grammatical form to fit your whims. It’s not a verbal noun. It’s not a participle. It’s not ANYTHING except an anarthrous noun. Belief is faith. Same noun from Germanic and Latin respective paths into English from Greek as pistis.

                    You couldn’t be more wrong. You’re arguing with grammar and the inspired text itself. This makes you a higher critic of scripture and it disannuls any position you could take that scripture is innerant and infallible. I doubt you want to take this there, but I could be wrong.

                    There is not one linguistic hint of belief EVER being a verb, and particularly it being allegedly “a noun being used as a verb”. There’s literally no such thing unless it’s a verbal noun, and those are clearly noted in any good grammatical tool (even for the theologically and linguistically illiterate).

                    You’re blustering in ignorance and arrogance. The text and grammar will not change not matter how hard to fight against scripture.

                    And you’re coming against God’s sovereignty and biblical Monergism!!!! A Hyper-Calvinist coming against those is just insanity based upon sheer oblivious pride to contradict one’s own alleged doctrine.

                    The noun primarily means persuasion
                    Right. Which is a noun definition as state of being. It’s not “to persuade” or any other verb sense. You really are doubling down on complete ignorance to the point of stubborn stupidity. Why do that?

                    it comes from the VERB peithó, which results in trust. Again you are wasting my time. Once one trusts or believes as a result of Faith, its [belief,trust] is an act of the mind, a work.
                    No. The believING is done by the faith. Belief is the noun that does the believING. Man cannot believe without the thing of faith that does the believING. The only reason man can believe is because God gives the thing whereby man can believe.

                    This is the core of biblical Monergism. You’re an alleged Hyper-Monergist coming against... MONERGISM.

                    You’re throwing God’s sovereignty under the bus, along with God’s foreknowledge and biblical election, etc.

                    It’s YOU who is wasting EVERYONE’s time with this thread and with your silly ignorant adamant assertions that are utterly and completely wrong accoding to grammar and the inspired text.

                    Again, apples for oranges. Stick with the theme of the thread !
                    I’m actually sticking with the theme of the thread, even though the title is self-contradicting. It’s you who isn’t sticking with the theme of the thread, because the alleged theme is in error. Faith/believing, as appears in the thread title, are NOT the same thing. Faith is a noun. BelievING is a verb. BELIEF IS THE SAME NOUN AS FAITH.

                    I’m not surprised you didn’t back down, but I’d hoped that you might have a love for the truth when corrected by the Word. But you’re going to double down and say you knew all along exactly what this thread and its title and your posts CLEARLY demonstrate that you don’t know at all.

                    Belief is not used as a verb. And there’s no such thing as a noun used as a verb. That’s a made-up concept of your own mind because you read your false doctrine INTO the text eisegetically rather than reading and understanding the text for what it is and means.

                    Belief in 2Thess won’t change into a verb from a noun, nor will it ever be considered “a noun acting as a verb” since there is NO SUCH THING. Any and all verbal nouns will be designated by grammatical notations and are unmistakable. This isn’t one of them, and neither is any other rendering of belief in the inspired text.

                    You’re making all of this up from your own conceptual understandings, which are wrong. And you’re a Calvinist coming against a Calvinist proof verse for Monergism. So now you’re REALLY jacking it all up.

                    You started with no credibility. Now you have less and less credibility with each attempt to cover your ignorance while you double down on your bad bet. This ain’t Vegas, baby. You’ve come against the inspired text and you lose.

                    Your fellow Calvinists should be taking you to the woodshed over this. You’re coming against Monergism.
                    Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                    “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ok doser View Post
                      just curious - seems to me that resisting satan's attempts to weaken our faith could be viewed as a work
                      It’s the faith as a noun doing the work. Nouns verb. We can only do it because we have the faith that does it.

                      This is the same thing as making a call on a cellular network or chopping down a tree. If someone doesn’t have the thing that calls (the phone), they’re not going to be able to make a call. If someone doesn’t have the thing that chops the tree (the axe or other implement), they’re not going to be able to chop the tree.

                      Having is a present indicative middle verb. English has no middle voice for verbs, so few understand this. The present indicative asserts something which is occuring while the speaker is making the statement. The middle voice refers to action upon oneself or on one’s own behalf.

                      So “having” is an indication that God is giving the faith for the action as the speaker is speaking. This demonstrates that faith comes from God and not man, and that without God giving man this thing, man would not be able to do any action related to what the thing does.

                      You won’t be chopping a tree without an axe, and you won’t be making any calls without a cellphone. Having those items is an issue of possession relative to a middle voice verb, and it’s clear that God is the one from whom the faith comes for “faithing”. There is NO believING without the belief that is faith, and its only source is God, not man.
                      Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                      “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                        pps



                        Yes you are, you are just wasting time and showing that you dont understand Faith in the bible.



                        Thats a lie, I now Faith is a noun and believing is a verb, I been knowing that for over 30yrs



                        I know that, its a noun being used as a verb belief. The noun primarily means persuasion it comes from the VERB peithó, which results in trust. Again you are wasting my time. Once one trusts or believes as a result of Faith, its [belief,trust] is an act of the mind, a work.

                        Again, apples for oranges. Stick with the theme of the thread !
                        If you’re coming against this verse, you’re not a Calvinist. It’s impossible to have the position you do about belief being a verb and still be a Calvinist.
                        Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                        “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
                          So “having” is an indication that God is giving the faith for the action as the speaker is speaking. This demonstrates that faith comes from God and not man, and that without God giving man this thing, man would not be able to do any action related to what the thing does.
                          So those without faith and have no hope of salvation are without faith because God didn't give it to them?

                          Since God wants all people to come to the knowledge of the truth then why doesn't he give all people faith?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                            So those without faith and have no hope of salvation are without faith because God didn't give it to them?

                            Since God wants all people to come to the knowledge of the truth then why doesn't he give all people faith?
                            You’ve just asked why Universalism isn’t authentic Christian doctrine. And there are several other issues of your presuppositions that it would take volumes to get into and would likely be futile if you’re asking this question.

                            But the short answer (that will be lost on you) is Romans 10:17. So then, faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

                            I’m just posting to refute beloved57’s false claim that faith is a verb and thus a work.
                            Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                            “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by oatmeal View Post
                              You have not yet learned to think precisely. when you start to think int terms of God's precision instead of your preferred beliefs, then you will learn
                              Says the pot to the kettle.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
                                It’s the faith as a noun doing the work. Nouns verb. We can only do it because we have the faith that does it.

                                This is the same thing as making a call on a cellular network or chopping down a tree. If someone doesn’t have the thing that calls (the phone), they’re not going to be able to make a call. If someone doesn’t have the thing that chops the tree (the axe or other implement), they’re not going to be able to chop the tree.

                                Having is a present indicative middle verb. English has no middle voice for verbs, so few understand this. The present indicative asserts something which is occuring while the speaker is making the statement. The middle voice refers to action upon oneself or on one’s own behalf.

                                So “having” is an indication that God is giving the faith for the action as the speaker is speaking. This demonstrates that faith comes from God and not man, and that without God giving man this thing, man would not be able to do any action related to what the thing does.

                                You won’t be chopping a tree without an axe, and you won’t be making any calls without a cellphone. Having those items is an issue of possession relative to a middle voice verb, and it’s clear that God is the one from whom the faith comes for “faithing”. There is NO believING without the belief that is faith, and its only source is God, not man.
                                do you believe that resisting satan's attempts to weaken our faith could be viewed as a work?


                                is prayer a work?

                                Comment

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