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Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation !

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Nanja View Post


    Have you ?

    Let's be more specific. Have you read the "Old Testament"? Deuteronomy 7:6 New International Version (NIV)

    6 For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

    Having read that, how could you say: "Abraham's physical descendants; and which were never the Chosen People of God."?

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by chair View Post

      Let's be more specific. Have you read the "Old Testament"? Deuteronomy 7:6 New International Version (NIV)

      6 For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

      Having read that, how could you say: "Abraham's physical descendants; and which were never the Chosen People of God."?


      As a whole, Abraham's physical descendants, National Israel, or ethnic jews, were never the Chosen People of God.

      For Christ Jesus coming into the world to die for sin was in keeping with a Covenant Promise to a Covenant People to be a Mercy to them Deut. 7:9.


      Deut. 7:6

      6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

      7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:


      Those Verses are speaking of Christ's Church, the Spiritual Israel.


      This is further explained by Paul here:

      Gal. 3:26-29

      26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

      29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


      Paul is describing the True Israel of God which was a Chosen People In Union with Christ before the foundation of the world, to be Holy and without blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:4, to the glory of the inheritance of the saints Eph. 1:18.








      My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever;
      when shall I be brought in to see His Face? - Psalm 42:2

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Nanja View Post



        As a whole, Abraham's physical descendants, National Israel, or ethnic jews, were never the Chosen People of God.

        For Christ Jesus coming into the world to die for sin was in keeping with a Covenant Promise to a Covenant People to be a Mercy to them Deut. 7:9.


        Deut. 7:6

        6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

        7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:


        Those Verses are speaking of Christ's Church, the Spiritual Israel.
        Uh huh.
        This is some kind of replacement theology. Except it skips the "replacement" part and pretends that God never had any special relationship with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob or the 12 tribes of Israel ever. It requires some very creative reading of the plain text to play this game.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by chair View Post

          Uh huh.
          This is some kind of replacement theology. Except it skips the "replacement" part and pretends that God never had any special relationship with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob or the 12 tribes of Israel ever. It requires some very creative reading of the plain text to play this game.
          Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were / are God's Elect, members of the Mystical Body of Christ Eph. 1:4, His Church Eph. 5:25.
          My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever;
          when shall I be brought in to see His Face? - Psalm 42:2

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Nanja View Post

            Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were / are God's Elect, members of the Mystical Body of Christ Eph. 1:4, His Church Eph. 5:25.
            What did the Old Testament text mean in the year 10 BCE?

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by chair View Post

              Let's be more specific. Have you read the "Old Testament"? Deuteronomy 7:6 New International Version (NIV)

              6 For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

              Having read that, how could you say: "Abraham's physical descendants; and which were never the Chosen People of God."?
              That's the Chosen remnant. They're more than just Abrahams physical descendants, they were his spiritual descendants. Yes they were natural jews but distinct from mere natural jews. Now mere natural jews of Abrahams physical descendants were not Chosen people of God.
              "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
              preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
              called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
              a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

              Charles Spurgeon !

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by beloved57 View Post

                That's the Chosen remnant. They're more than just Abrahams physical descendants, they were his spiritual descendants. Yes they were natural jews but distinct from mere natural jews. Now mere natural jews of Abrahams physical descendants were not Chosen people of God.
                Were the Israelites of the Exodus God's chosen people?

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by chair View Post

                  Were the Israelites of the Exodus God's chosen people?
                  Already answered
                  "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                  preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                  called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                  a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                  Charles Spurgeon !

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                    Isa 45:17
                    This is a promise as to who exactly shall be saved in the Lord. The Lord Jesus Christ that is, for Salvation is not in any other as Peter writes Acts 4:12

                    12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
                    And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of YHWH shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as YHWH hath said, and in the remnant whom YHWH shall call.
                    Joel 2:32

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Theo102 View Post

                      And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of YHWH shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as YHWH hath said, and in the remnant whom YHWH shall call.
                      Joel 2:32
                      Ok.
                      "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                      preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                      called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                      a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                      Charles Spurgeon !

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by beloved57 View Post

                        Ok.
                        Acts 2:21 is similar to the first part of Joel 2:32 from the KJV:

                        And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
                        Acts 2:21

                        And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
                        Joel 2:23, KJV


                        The Hebrew of Joel has the proper name but the Greek of Acts has a title. This inconsistency becomes more pronounced with Romans (Lord) vs Philemon (Jesus) vs Isaiah (YHWH):


                        For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
                        Romans 14:11

                        That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
                        Philemon 2:10

                        I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
                        Isaiah 45:23

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                          Jesus is seen to be Israel here by scripture analogy. When Joseph and Mary and the baby Jesus left egypt Matt 2:14-15

                          14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
                          [COLOR=#000000]15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

                          Now this occurrence was said to have fulfilled this Hosea 11:1

                          When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt[FONT=&quot].



                          I never realized that Jesus played the harlot against God:

                          Do not rejoice, O Israel, with joy like other peoples, For you have played the harlot against your God. You have made love for hire on every threshing floor. Hosea 9:1


                          And that Jesus is an empty vine:

                          Israel is an empty vine, he bringeth forth fruit unto himself: according to the multitude of his fruit he hath increased the altars; according to the goodness of his land they have made goodly images. Hosea 10:1



                          Originally posted by beloved57 View Post

                          Now who wants to contradict what God has revealed ??

                          Now if Jesus Gods Son, the Christ has been revealed to be Israel, then they which are One with Christ are also Israel.

                          Paul writes of the Church, the Body of Christ 1 Cor 12:12-13



                          12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

                          13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

                          Thats why Gentile Believers as well as jewish Believers in Christ constitute Israel, even as Christ is Israel !

                          That's the beauty of scripture! We can find verses to prove anything we wanna prove.
                          We just gotta ignore the principles and doctrine of the WHOLE BIBLE.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by blackbirdking View Post
                            That's the beauty of scripture! We can find verses to prove anything we wanna prove.
                            We just gotta ignore the principles and doctrine of the WHOLE BIBLE.
                            For those principles and doctrine to be meaningful they should have an identifiable source.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Theo102 View Post

                              For those principles and doctrine to be meaningful they should have an identifiable source.

                              People start with principles and doctrine and then use scripture to 'prove' it; meanwhile, some one else will start with opposing principles and doctrine and 'prove' it, using scripture..

                              Hence, many people disagree about what the Bible says because it 'says' what each one wants it to say.
                              Scripture is used to 'prove' any idea man can imagine.

                              Just read this thread!

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by blackbirdking View Post
                                People start with principles and doctrine and then use scripture to 'prove' it; meanwhile, some one else will start with opposing principles and doctrine and 'prove' it, using scripture..
                                Yeah, it's called political reasoning. Maybe this place would be better called assortedapologists than theologyonline.

                                The only remedy I'm aware of is to be rigorous in your application of reason.

                                Comment

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