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REPORT: God's plan of salvation

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  • Originally posted by Nick M View Post
    I believe Jesus is who says he is, and that God raised him from the dead, for my salvation.

    I accept, without any qualifiers. Thank you Jesus.
    Sorry Nick but, you are setting Jesus up for a contradiction. I am sure you not only know that Jesus was a Jew but also that you take pride in that he was. He knew as a Jew that the Jew, once dead will never return from the grave. It means he could not have said that God raised him from the dead because he knew it could
    not be true. If you find this message too hard to be true, you can read "II Sam. 12:23; Isaiah 26:14 and Job 7:9." And when you say "for your salvation", you complicate things further. Why? Because Jesus himself
    declared that salvation comes only by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. If you also find that hard to believe, read Luke 16:29-31.

    Comment


    • Then Jonah prayed to the Lord his God from the fish’s belly. 2 And he said: “I cried out to the Lord because of my affliction, And He answered me. “Out of the belly of Sheol I cried, And You heard my voice....10 So the Lord spoke to the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land.

      In fulfillment of the scriptures...
      Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

      Titus 1

      For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

      Ephesians 5

      11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
        All acts of kneeling before the statue of a human being or animal is a pagan act of idolatry.
        What is it called when your Temple is utterly ruined and ground into powder and you don't rebuild it for going on 2,000 years?
        Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
        Are you implying that Jesus was a pagan? He was a Jew and he taught to listen to "Moses" aka the Law if you read Luke 16:29-31. How do you explain that otherwise?
        The thing about Esau, the Scripture never comes out and says it, but Esau, and maybe his father Isaac too, since Esau apparently took after his father; at least, that's what I gather, from that Isaac preferred the food that Esau made for him, over Jacob's offerings; the thing about Esau is that he's just not that bright. It's not that Jacob was particularly clever. But Esau should have known that he'd be better off making his mother happy, than his father. It's how the prophecy came true: "The elder shall serve the younger." Genesis 25:23
        Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
        I believe that HaShem is All-Powerful to do any thing He wants but one: The thing you wish He did or should have done. I mean by this that He did not become flesh in Jesus as it would be a pagan act of blasphemy if you read Isaiah 46:5. Regarding the Christian Church, I have already told you before that Jesus never had any thing to do with Christianity. He never even dreamed that Paul would ever found that church. (Acts 11:26)
        I believe that our Maker is the Trinity.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Nick M View Post
          [COLOR="#0000CD"]Then Jonah prayed to the Lord his God from the fish’s belly. 2 And he said: “I cried out to the Lord because of my affliction, And He answered me. “Out of the belly of Sheol I cried, And You heard my voice....10 So the Lord spoke to the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land.

          In fulfillment of the scriptures...
          Hi Nick, I agree with you about the incident of Jonah, though not because it happened literally but because of Numbers 12:6. We read there instructions from HaShem with regards to His prophets. He said, "If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make Myself known to him in a vision and will speak to him in a dream. That's what happened to Jonah. He never even left his bedroom to take a sheep to Nineveh. It was all in a dream. To run away from his mission as a prophet, he went down to Joppa, took a ship to Tarshish to hide himself from the Lord. Once in the ship, he went down, laid down and continued fast asleep while the dream proceeded. When he woke up, he considered his dream and took God's will for granted as Nineveh was concerned. Then, he went on with his prophetic mission; to Nineveh and Nineveh was saved. But, literally, he was never in the belly of the fish.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Nick M View Post
            [COLOR="#0000CD"]Then Jonah prayed to the Lord his God from the fish’s belly. 2 And he said: “I cried out to the Lord because of my affliction, And He answered me. “Out of the belly of Sheol I cried, And You heard my voice....10 So the Lord spoke to the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land.

            In fulfillment of the scriptures...
            Hi Nick, I agree with you about the incident of Jonah, though not because it happened literally but because of Numbers 12:6. We read there instructions from HaShem with regards to His prophets. He said, "If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make Myself known to him in a vision and will speak to him in a vision. That's what happened to Jonah. He never even left his bedroom to take a sheep to Nineveh. It was all in a dream. To run away from his mission as a prophet, he went down to Joppa, took a ship to Tarshish to hide from the Lord. Once in the ship, he went down in the ship lay down and continued fast asleep while the dream proceed. When he woke up, he considered his dream and took God's will for granted as Nineveh was concerned. Then, he went one with his prophetic mission; went to Nineveh and Nineveh was saved. But, literally, he was never in the belly of the fish.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Nihilo View Post
              What is it called when your Temple is utterly ruined and ground into powder and you don't rebuild it for going on 2,000 years?
              The thing about Esau, the Scripture never comes out and says it, but Esau, and maybe his father Isaac too, since Esau apparently took after his father; at least, that's what I gather, from that Isaac preferred the food that Esau made for him, over Jacob's offerings; the thing about Esau is that he's just not that bright. It's not that Jacob was particularly clever. But Esau should have known that he'd be better off making his mother happy, than his father. It's how the prophecy came true: "The elder shall serve the younger." Genesis 25:23
              I believe that our Maker is the Trinity.
              And now we part ways because I find too hard to fight against faith as faith is the worst enemy of Logic. Regardless, try to understand the Logic of the absolute Unity of HaShem. That's my attempt to reach for the help of Physics although faith
              is still stronger.

              The Absolute Oneness of God

              Isaiah says that, absolutely, God cannot be compared with anyone or anything, as we read Isaiah 46:5. "To whom will ye liken Me, and make Me equal to , or compare Me with, that we may be alike?"

              Therefore, more than one God would have been unable to produce the world; one would have impeded the work of the other, unless this could be avoided by a suitable division of labor.

              More than one Divine Being would have one element in common, and would differ in another; each would thus consist of two elements, and would not be God.

              More than one God are moved to action by will; the will, without a substratum, could not act simultaneously in more than one being.

              Therefore, the existence of one God is proved; the existence of more than one God cannot be proved. One could suggest that it would be possible; but since as possibility is inapplicable to God, there does not exist more than one God. So, the possibility of ascertaining the existence of God is here confounded with potentiality of existence.

              Again, if one God suffices, a second or third God would be superfluous; if one God is not sufficient, he is not perfect, and cannot be a deity.

              Now, besides being God absolutely One, He is incorporeal. If God were corporeal, He would consist of atoms, and would not be one; or he would be comparable to other beings; but a comparison implies the existence of similar and of dissimilar elements, and God would thus not be One. A corporeal God would be finite, and an external power would be required to define those limits.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
                And now we part ways because I find too hard to fight against faith as faith is the worst enemy of Logic.
                No it's not. This is a cop-out.
                Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
                Regardless, try to understand the Logic of the absolute Unity of HaShem. That's my attempt to reach for the help of Physics although faith
                is still stronger.

                The Absolute Oneness of God

                Isaiah says that, absolutely, God cannot be compared with anyone or anything, as we read Isaiah 46:5. "To whom will ye liken Me, and make Me equal to , or compare Me with, that we may be alike?"

                Therefore, more than one God would have been unable to produce the world; one would have impeded the work of the other, unless this could be avoided by a suitable division of labor.

                More than one Divine Being would have one element in common, and would differ in another; each would thus consist of two elements, and would not be God.

                More than one God are moved to action by will; the will, without a substratum, could not act simultaneously in more than one being.

                Therefore, the existence of one God is proved; the existence of more than one God cannot be proved. One could suggest that it would be possible; but since as possibility is inapplicable to God, there does not exist more than one God. So, the possibility of ascertaining the existence of God is here confounded with potentiality of existence.

                Again, if one God suffices, a second or third God would be superfluous; if one God is not sufficient, he is not perfect, and cannot be a deity.
                Huge straw man fallacy since the Church does not believe in nor teach the belief in more than One Maker. He is the Trinity. Three Persons, One Maker.
                Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
                Now, besides being God absolutely One, He is incorporeal. If God were corporeal, He would consist of atoms, and would not be one; or he would be comparable to other beings; but a comparison implies the existence of similar and of dissimilar elements, and God would thus not be One. A corporeal God would be finite, and an external power would be required to define those limits.
                God is spirit.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Nihilo View Post
                  No it's not. This is a cop-out.
                  Huge straw man fallacy since the Church does not believe in nor teach the belief in more than One Maker. He is the Trinity. Three Persons, One Maker.
                  God is spirit.
                  And after Jesus was gone, the Hellenist who wrote the gospel of Jesus said to baptize in the name of God the Father; God the son and God the Holy Spirit. (Mat. 28:19) Since God the Father is a Spirit according to John 4:24, He is the same as the Holy Spirit but. Christians claim that Jesus resurrected and appeared to his disciples for 40 days eating and drinking with his disciples as evidence that he was in flesh. (Luke 1:3) Two in spirit and one in flesh; no longer a perfect Trinity. Therefore, more than one is all that it takes for idolatry. Now it is your turn to explain the Trinity.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
                    Now it is your turn to explain the Trinity.
                    Isa 48:17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

                    1. Thy Redeemer (Jesus)
                    2. Holy One of Israel (Holy Ghost)
                    2. LORD thy God (Father)

                    Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
                    Redeemer is also flesh, for he stood upon the earth in the latter day.


                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Nick M View Post
                      I believe Jesus is who says he is, and that God raised him from the dead, for my salvation.

                      I accept, without any qualifiers. Thank you Jesus.
                      I am glad you can believe the umbelievable. You believe Jesus "is who says he is" but I am sure you need
                      all the faith you can get because Jesus is dead and, according to Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 nothing of the likes is to be expected of the dead. I understand you though. You are a Christian and can't admit the truth that
                      Jesus was a Jew who lived according to the Tanach which teaches that, once dead, no one will ever return from the grave. (2 Samuel 12:23; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7,9)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by iamaberean View Post


                        Isa 48:17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

                        1. Thy Redeemer (Jesus)
                        2. Holy One of Israel (Holy Ghost)
                        2. LORD thy God (Father)

                        Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
                        Redeemer is also flesh, for he stood upon the earth in the latter day.


                        If you read Isaiah 43:1-3, the Lord our God is our only Redeemer. It means that Jesus performed no act of redemption. Also Jeremiah and Ezekiel say in the Tanach no one is allowed to die for the sins of another. It is only obvious that Jesus would not contradict God's Words. The only Scriptures Jesus always referred to as the Word of God, as you must know, was the Tanach. Jesus never even dreamed the NT would ever rise.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
                          And after Jesus was gone, the Hellenist who wrote the gospel of Jesus said to baptize in the name of God the Father; God the son and God the Holy Spirit. (Mat. 28:19) Since God the Father is a Spirit according to John 4:24, He is the same as the Holy Spirit but. Christians claim that Jesus resurrected and appeared to his disciples for 40 days eating and drinking with his disciples as evidence that he was in flesh. (Luke 1:3) Two in spirit and one in flesh; no longer a perfect Trinity. Therefore, more than one is all that it takes for idolatry. Now it is your turn to explain the Trinity.
                          It's not my job to explain the Trinity but the Church's magisterium, which they do, and have, for centuries.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
                            I am glad you can believe the umbelievable.
                            Yep. With you, this is impossible. With God, all things are possible.

                            The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork.
                            Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

                            Titus 1

                            For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

                            Ephesians 5

                            11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Nihilo View Post
                              It's not my job to explain the Trinity but the Church's magisterium, which they do, and have, for centuries.
                              I wonder how they explain the Trinity that you find it so impressive when I can use Logic and Physics to explain the opposite with HaShem being of an absolute Oneness. Let me know if you you would like me to print it here for your eyes only.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Nick M View Post
                                Yep. With you, this is impossible. With God, all things are possible.

                                The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork.
                                No doubt about it! With God, indeed every thing is possible but one thing, the thing you wish He did or should have done. The Lord does not work that way unless you listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) Please, read the quote.

                                Comment

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