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REPORT: God's plan of salvation

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  • Originally posted by Shibolet View Post
    "To go to azazel" is an analogy with "to go to hell."
    For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Psalm 16:10)

    The Azazel wasn't killed by man, he was let go to his place in the wilderness.
    And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place and the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, he shall bring the live goat and Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness.

    And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited, and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness. (Leviticus 16:20-22)

    The wilderness refers to an uninhabited place. The ultimate uninhabited place is the grave. No one lives there.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by jamie View Post

      1 - For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Psalm 16:10)

      2 - The Azazel wasn't killed by man, he was let go to his place in the wilderness.

      3 - And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place and the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, he shall bring the live goat and Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness.

      4 - And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited, and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness. (Leviticus 16:20-22)

      The wilderness refers to an uninhabited place. The ultimate uninhabited place is the grave. No one lives there.
      1 - No Jamie, you did not understand me. "To go to hell" is a similar statement akin to get rid of some one or some thing.

      2 - Exactly!

      3 - Since Israel was the Scapegoat, he was banished to azazel towards the East to atone for the sins of Judah aka the new Israel.

      4 - This atonement was not meant physical death but only a Divine rejection to last forever. (Psalm 78:67-69) The physical death happened only in the type level of the analogy with the animals. But in the archetype level, the Scapegoat did not have to be bloodily sacrificed. BTW, another analogy was in the binding of Isaac. Only the binding as there was no real sacrifice but of the ram caught in the bush.

      Comment


      • They shall come with weeping and with supplications will I lead them. I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way wherein they shall not stumble for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

        Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations and declare it in the isles afar off and say, "He that scattered Israel will gather him and keep him as a shepherd doth his flock." (Jeremiah 31:9-10)

        "Is Ephraim my dear son? Is he a pleasant child? For since I spake against him I do earnestly remember him still, therefore my bowels are troubled for him, I will surely have mercy upon him," saith the LORD. (Jeremiah 31:20)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Shibolet View Post
          I think I read the NT more than you do. Otherwise, how could I challenge Christians if I have not read their book? But believe me, I wouldn't be here if I had not found out in the NT that the Pauline method to replace the Jewish Theology by using a Jew was not the foundation of the NT. It just happens that no one has what it takes to persuade me of the contrary.
          You need to read it again because you obviously don't understand or believe it. What you believe does not effect the reality of Jesus Christ and the Cross. Jesus Christ was and is God, the Messiah. Jesus Christ died on the Cross for the sins of mankind so that Salvation could be offered as a precious GIFT for those who believe and have faith. This is what God's Word bluntly teaches, so what you deny is not material to REALITY.

          1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
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          Romans 10:9-10 KJV That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

          Comment


          • And the LORD God said, "Behold, the man is become as one of us to know good and evil..." (Genesis 3:22)

            What more needs to be said?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by jamie View Post
              They shall come with weeping and with supplications will I lead them. I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way wherein they shall not stumble for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

              Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations and declare it in the isles afar off and say, "He that scattered Israel will gather him and keep him as a shepherd doth his flock." (Jeremiah 31:9-10)

              "Is Ephraim my dear son? Is he a pleasant child? For since I spake against him I do earnestly remember him still, therefore my bowels are troubled for him, I will surely have mercy upon him," saith the LORD. (Jeremiah 31:20)
              And all the above had its fulfillment in Ezekiel 37:22 when the Lord gathered under the same flock about 10% of Ephraim that escaped from Assyria and joined Judah in the South when both peoples became one only kingdom and, with them aka the House of Israel and the House of Judah the Lord established His New Covenant. (Jer. 31:31)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by journey View Post
                You need to read it again because you obviously don't understand or believe it. What you believe does not effect the reality of Jesus Christ and the Cross. Jesus Christ was and is God, the Messiah. Jesus Christ died on the Cross for the sins of mankind so that Salvation could be offered as a precious GIFT for those who believe and have faith. This is what God's Word bluntly teaches, so what you deny is not material to REALITY.

                1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
                The differences between our realities is that yours is not Jewish, albeit you are using a Jew to promote it. Your reality is based on the Greek reality of Hellenism and mine is based on the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism.

                You have quoted above the gospel of Paul which was Hellenistic. It doesn't go with the Jewish reality of the Faith of Jesus.

                You have quoted I Cor. 15:1-4 and I have a question about the last verse: It says that Jesus rose according to the Scriptures. What Scriptures if the NT was written 50+ years after Jesus had been gone? It must be the Jewish Scriptures. If so, would you be able to quote to me where in the Jewish Scriptures I can read that Jesus rose from the dead on the third day? If you have an answer to me, I will take my hat off and pay homage to your understanding which is indeed superior to mine.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jamie View Post
                  And the LORD God said, "Behold, the man is become as one of us to know good and evil..." (Genesis 3:22)

                  What more needs to be said?
                  To banish man from the Garden of Eden so that he would not eat from the tree of life and live forever. Did you miss that in the same verse? That's the reason why no one can have eternal life.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by jamie View Post
                    They shall come with weeping and with supplications will I lead them. I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way wherein they shall not stumble for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

                    Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations and declare it in the isles afar off and say, "He that scattered Israel will gather him and keep him as a shepherd doth his flock." (Jeremiah 31:9-10)

                    "Is Ephraim my dear son? Is he a pleasant child? For since I spake against him I do earnestly remember him still, therefore my bowels are troubled for him, I will surely have mercy upon him," saith the LORD. (Jeremiah 31:20)
                    But it had to be either Judah or Israel. Both had rejected God's Covenant made with them, and the Lord had promised David that He would keep his Tribe as a lamp in Jerusalem forever. (I Kings 11:36) So, lots were cast over the two goats and Israel was the one chosen as the Scapegoat to make atonement for Judah so that he could remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37) So, Israel was taken to Assyria on an endless exile and Judah to Babylon for 70 years. At the end of those 70 years, the whole Land of Israel became of Judah only and up to this day. (Ezek. 37:22)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
                      But it had to be either Judah or Israel. Both had rejected God's Covenant made with them, and the Lord had promised David that He would keep his Tribe as a lamp in Jerusalem forever. (I Kings 11:36) So, lots were cast over the two goats and Israel was the one chosen as the Scapegoat to make atonement for Judah so that he could remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37) So, Israel was taken to Assyria on an endless exile and Judah to Babylon for 70 years. At the end of those 70 years, the whole Land of Israel became of Judah only and up to this day. (Ezek. 37:22)
                      Bull crap. Israel would not be assimilated by the will of God. Your hypothesis (and that is all it is) is obsurd.
                      John 1:1-2 εν αρχη ην ο λογος At the beginning, it was a word; και ο λογος ην προς ο θεος and a word, it was unto a God; και θεος ην ο λογος and the God, it was.. A word 2 ουτος a-such... 2 ην εν αρχη προς ο θεος ... it was at the beginning unto a God.

                      Yahweh is a word of God, not just Christ!

                      Comment


                      • God's Plan of Salvation

                        There are two kinds of salvation: Universal salvation and personal salvation. Universal salvation is of universal catastrophes of the size of the Flood.

                        Soon after the Flood, the Lord planned future salvation by promising Noah that never again He would allow universal destruction of almost the whole of Mankind. (Gen. 8:21,22) This kind of salvation is free and the kind of salvation Jesus spoke of as coming from the Jews. (John 4:22) If there had been at least a Minyan of ten adult Jews on earth before the Flood, this would not have happened. Evidence? If there had been a Minyan of ten Jews on earth at the time of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, this would not have happened.
                        (Gen. 18:32)

                        Now, for personal salvation, that's not free and it is subject to our Freewill based on the obedience of God's Law. (Isa. 1:18,19) Jesus himself said once that if someone goes into the Temple to plead for salvation and all of a sudden is reminded that he or she has an issue with someone else, he or she must leave all behind and go first to set things right with our neighbor and then to return to the Temple. Otherwise, personal salvation is never achieved. (Mat. 5:23,24)

                        Comment


                        • Is there golden calf worship and salvation?
                          "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                          preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                          called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                          a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                          Charles Spurgeon !

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by jamie View Post
                            1 - For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Psalm 16:10)

                            2 - The Azazel wasn't killed by man, he was let go to his place in the wilderness.

                            3 - And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place and the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, he shall bring the live goat and Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness.

                            4 - And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited, and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness. (Leviticus 16:20-22)

                            The wilderness refers to an uninhabited place. The ultimate uninhabited place is the grave. No one lives there.
                            1 - In other words: "For thou will not leave myself in hell. "My soul" and "Myself" is one and the same. When the Lord formed man from the dust of the earth He breathed into the nostrils of man and he become a living soul. (Gen. 2:7) To become is to be and not to have. Therefore, we are; we don't have.

                            2 - And "to his place" in the wilderness is a reference to Israel being taken to Assyria Eastward through the desert into an endless exile forever. That's when the Lord rejected the Tabernacle of Joseph and confirmed Judah to remain in Jerusalem as a People before the Lord forever. (Psalm 78:67-70)

                            3 - "End of reconciliation" means the exile of Israel to Assyria was forever. Israel would never be a people again or an independent kingdom. (Ezek. 37:22) The live goat was Judah, confirmed to become one only People forever. (Psalm. 78:67-70)

                            4 - To Assyria. That's where Israel was sent to forever.

                            5 - The ultimate uninhabited place is an embellishment for the realm of the grave.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Omniskeptical View Post
                              Bull crap. Israel would not be assimilated by the will of God. Your hypothesis (and that is all it is) is obsurd.
                              Nevertheless it was. Read Ezekiel 37:22.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                                Is there golden calf worship and salvation?
                                No, just as there wasn't when Christianity formed an image of Jesus and Mary to worship. Read Deuteronomy 4:15-19.

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