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  • Why Calvinism, Catholicism, All Religions Are Self Defeating

    All through the Old Testament and into the New Testament people are justified by faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ. The word "Faith" means to have confidence or to be dependent upon a person, statement, or thing as trustworthy. We who are saved have entered into God's rest. We have ceased from our works and religion and are resting in the work and the person of Jesus Christ for our salvation.

    "For we which believe do enter into his rest, as he said, AS I HAVE SWORN IN MY WRATH, IF THEY SHALL NOT ENTER INTO MY REST: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world" Hebrews 4:3.

    "For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his" Hebrews 4:10.

    The work of salvation was already completed in God's mind before he ever created the heavens and the earth, Revelation 13:8. God looked off into the future and saw his Son Jesus Christ atoning for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. The work of Christ is a completed work, we are called to rest in that work.

    It is not possible to rest or have faith in a God that condemns billions to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam. It is not humanity's fault that they are born sinners after Adam. Therefore, a God that would condemn lost sinners to hell before they are born is an unjust, unmerciful God that cannot be trusted. It is not humanly possible to have faith in the God of Calvinism. This makes Calvinism self defeating.

    To believe that Jesus has NOT atoned for the sins of the whole world is to believe that Jesus is NOT Lord. To not believe that Jesus is Lord, is to die in your sins. "For if you believe not that I am he, You will die in your sins" John 8:24. Again, we have this self defeating doctrine that Jesus has failed to atone for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

    Any doctrine or religion that undermines the work and the person of Jesus Christ is self defeating and is anti-Christ. Catholicism is self defeating because they do not believe that salvation is by faith alone. They believe that they must participate in their salvation by the works of the law. That is not saving faith. Saving faith is a faith that has ceased from their own works and have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

    Many will try to refute faith without works by quoting James 2:17. James was one of the first books written in the New Testament. It was written to the Jewish people and not to Gentiles. Many in the early church, including James, were not aware that the law had been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. To live according to rules, laws, commandments, is to NOT enter into HIS rest.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Robert Pate View Post
    All through the Old Testament and into the New Testament people are justified by faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ. The word "Faith" means to have confidence or to be dependent upon a person, statement, or thing as trustworthy. We who are saved have entered into God's rest. We have ceased from our works and religion and are resting in the work and the person of Jesus Christ for our salvation.

    "For we which believe do enter into his rest, as he said, AS I HAVE SWORN IN MY WRATH, IF THEY SHALL NOT ENTER INTO MY REST: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world" Hebrews 4:3.

    "For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his" Hebrews 4:10.

    The work of salvation was already completed in God's mind before he ever created the heavens and the earth, Revelation 13:8. God looked off into the future and saw his Son Jesus Christ atoning for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. The work of Christ is a completed work, we are called to rest in that work.

    It is not possible to rest or have faith in a God that condemns billions to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam. It is not humanity's fault that they are born sinners after Adam. Therefore, a God that would condemn lost sinners to hell before they are born is an unjust, unmerciful God that cannot be trusted. It is not humanly possible to have faith in the God of Calvinism. This makes Calvinism self defeating.

    To believe that Jesus has NOT atoned for the sins of the whole world is to believe that Jesus is NOT Lord. To not believe that Jesus is Lord, is to die in your sins. "For if you believe not that I am he, You will die in your sins" John 8:24. Again, we have this self defeating doctrine that Jesus has failed to atone for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

    Any doctrine or religion that undermines the work and the person of Jesus Christ is self defeating and is anti-Christ. Catholicism is self defeating because they do not believe that salvation is by faith alone. They believe that they must participate in their salvation by the works of the law. That is not saving faith. Saving faith is a faith that has ceased from their own works and have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

    Many will try to refute faith without works by quoting James 2:17. James was one of the first books written in the New Testament. It was written to the Jewish people and not to Gentiles. Many in the early church, including James, were not aware that the law had been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. To live according to rules, laws, commandments, is to NOT enter into HIS rest.
    Dude, you dont even believe the Blood of Christ saves. You teach those He shed it for are still lost !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
      Dude, you dont even believe the Blood of Christ saves. You teach those He shed it for are still lost !
      What you believe about God and his Son Jesus Christ is what is going to send you to hell.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Robert Pate View Post
        What you believe about God and his Son Jesus Christ is what is going to send you to hell.
        What kind of Gospel preacher preaches that Christ death alone does not save sinners that He died for?

        Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app
        "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
        preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
        called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
        a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

        Charles Spurgeon !

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
          What kind of Gospel preacher preaches that Christ death alone does not save sinners that He died for?

          Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app
          So why do Lutherans believe that Christ's shed blood was for all sin and all sinners and still understand that there is an election according to grace. Calvinist's try to make the cross the place where God chooses one and rejects the other but this is just stupidity on so many levels. You have no answer for this.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Robert Pate View Post
            All through the Old Testament and into the New Testament people are justified by faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ. The word "Faith" means to have confidence or to be dependent upon a person, statement, or thing as trustworthy. We who are saved have entered into God's rest. We have ceased from our works and religion and are resting in the work and the person of Jesus Christ for our salvation.

            "For we which believe do enter into his rest, as he said, AS I HAVE SWORN IN MY WRATH, IF THEY SHALL NOT ENTER INTO MY REST: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world" Hebrews 4:3.

            "For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his" Hebrews 4:10.

            The work of salvation was already completed in God's mind before he ever created the heavens and the earth, Revelation 13:8. God looked off into the future and saw his Son Jesus Christ atoning for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. The work of Christ is a completed work, we are called to rest in that work.

            It is not possible to rest or have faith in a God that condemns billions to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam. It is not humanity's fault that they are born sinners after Adam. Therefore, a God that would condemn lost sinners to hell before they are born is an unjust, unmerciful God that cannot be trusted. It is not humanly possible to have faith in the God of Calvinism. This makes Calvinism self defeating.

            To believe that Jesus has NOT atoned for the sins of the whole world is to believe that Jesus is NOT Lord. To not believe that Jesus is Lord, is to die in your sins. "For if you believe not that I am he, You will die in your sins" John 8:24. Again, we have this self defeating doctrine that Jesus has failed to atone for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

            Any doctrine or religion that undermines the work and the person of Jesus Christ is self defeating and is anti-Christ. Catholicism is self defeating because they do not believe that salvation is by faith alone. They believe that they must participate in their salvation by the works of the law. That is not saving faith. Saving faith is a faith that has ceased from their own works and have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

            Many will try to refute faith without works by quoting James 2:17. James was one of the first books written in the New Testament. It was written to the Jewish people and not to Gentiles. Many in the early church, including James, were not aware that the law had been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. To live according to rules, laws, commandments, is to NOT enter into HIS rest.
            The danger of people like you is that along the broad way you hear words coming across from the narrow way and say to yourself, "That sounds good. I'll use that". Then you do, but we* realise that you are repeating parrot fashion with no comprehension of what you are repeating.

            Spurgeon was a master at this. He had an army of young men who would research and write his sermons while he pretended to have had the experience and understanding. I'm sure that among those young men there were some genuinely converted souls, but Spurgeon was not one of them and neither are you.

            we* the redeemed, regenerate and repentant sinners.
            I know Him, correctly, as Messiah whom you call Christ. Yah Shua whom you call Jesus. Messianists who you call Christians.

            "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm".

            I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
            A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
            If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

            Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

            I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Truster View Post
              The danger of people like you is that along the broad way you hear words coming across from the narrow way and say to yourself, "That sounds good. I'll use that". Then you do, but we* realise that you are repeating parrot fashion with no comprehension of what you are repeating.

              Spurgeon was a master at this. He had an army of young men who would research and write his sermons while he pretended to have had the experience and understanding. I'm sure that among those young men there were some genuinely converted souls, but Spurgeon was not one of them and neither are you.

              we* the redeemed, regenerate and repentant sinners.

              Without the Gospel you cannot be saved. Only those that have embraced Christ and his Gospel will be saved. You have embraced something, but it is not Christ and his Gospel. Perhaps it is Calvinism. You don't appear to have many friends on this Forum. Why is that?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Robert Pate View Post
                Many will try to refute faith without works by quoting James 2:17. James was one of the first books written in the New Testament. It was written to the Jewish people and not to Gentiles. Many in the early church, including James, were not aware that the law had been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. To live according to rules, laws, commandments, is to NOT enter into HIS rest.
                How interesting that you know the Epistle that obliterates your points against your doctrines, and try to head it off with a made-up theory about it.

                If it was absent of the fullness of truth, why is it in the Holy Written Word? Which is classified as inerrant? Your proposes theory of James not knowing the law had been abolished is utter filth. There is no evidence of this anywhere, be it Christian or secular. This theory is in direct contradiction with historical evidence. I have been over this multiple times with you.

                Your theory cannot even withstand the scrutiny it places on others.


                Sent from my iPhone using TOL

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by jsanford108 View Post
                  How interesting that you know the Epistle that obliterates your points against your doctrines, and try to head it off with a made-up theory about it.

                  If it was absent of the fullness of truth, why is it in the Holy Written Word? Which is classified as inerrant? Your proposes theory of James not knowing the law had been abolished is utter filth. There is no evidence of this anywhere, be it Christian or secular. This theory is in direct contradiction with historical evidence. I have been over this multiple times with you.

                  Your theory cannot even withstand the scrutiny it places on others.


                  Sent from my iPhone using TOL
                  So why did Paul focus on Christian service and duty from Romans 12 and on? Works are part of the gospel whether you believe it or not. When we understand that our Salvation is totally outside of ourselves our works become acceptable to God because they are motivated by love and an appreciation for what he has done for us that we could never do for ourselves. Everything that proceeds from our mouths and hands and feet is a work according to scripture. To say that believers produce no works is sheer lunacy by the deranged Reformed and their unholy crusade against all things personal.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Epoisses View Post
                    So why did Paul focus on Christian service and duty from Romans 12 and on? Works are part of the gospel whether you believe it or not. When we understand that our Salvation is totally outside of ourselves our works become acceptable to God because they are motivated by love and an appreciation for what he has done for us that we could never do for ourselves. Everything that proceeds from our mouths and hands and feet is a work according to scripture. To say that believers produce no works is sheer lunacy by the deranged Reformed and their unholy crusade against all things personal.
                    Exactly. Glad somebody else agrees with James and the Gospel.


                    Sent from my iPhone using TOL

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jsanford108 View Post
                      Exactly. Glad somebody else agrees with James and the Gospel.


                      Sent from my iPhone using TOL
                      He is one of very few who accepts James' word.

                      there are too many "faith only" believers in Christian community.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jsanford108 View Post
                        How interesting that you know the Epistle that obliterates your points against your doctrines, and try to head it off with a made-up theory about it.

                        If it was absent of the fullness of truth, why is it in the Holy Written Word? Which is classified as inerrant? Your proposes theory of James not knowing the law had been abolished is utter filth. There is no evidence of this anywhere, be it Christian or secular. This theory is in direct contradiction with historical evidence. I have been over this multiple times with you.

                        Your theory cannot even withstand the scrutiny it places on others.


                        Sent from my iPhone using TOL
                        No, James did not know that Jesus had abolished the law, this is why he wrote Acts 15:21.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Robert Pate View Post
                          No, James did not know that Jesus had abolished the law, this is why he wrote Acts 15:21.
                          James didn't write Acts. That is basic knowledge and easily found in a plethora of sources. Even so, that still doesn't prove your theory that James didn't know the law had been abolished, and still does not address how James could be included in the Holy Scriptures/Bible, if the fullness of truth was absent in any capacity.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jsanford108 View Post
                            James didn't write Acts. That is basic knowledge and easily found in a plethora of sources. Even so, that still doesn't prove your theory that James didn't know the law had been abolished, and still does not address how James could be included in the Holy Scriptures/Bible, if the fullness of truth was absent in any capacity.
                            The book of James is one of the first books of the New Testament. Many did not understand that Jesus had abolished the law. Acts 15:21 are the words of James. I am sure that James like many others came into a better understanding of the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law at a later date. Read all of Acts chapter 15 and you will see that there was much disputing between those that wanted to keep the law and Paul that knew that the law had been abolished.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Robert Pate View Post
                              The book of James is one of the first books of the New Testament. Many did not understand that Jesus had abolished the law. Acts 15:21 are the words of James. I am sure that James like many others came into a better understanding of the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law at a later date. Read all of Acts chapter 15 and you will see that there was much disputing between those that wanted to keep the law and Paul that knew that the law had been abolished.
                              Very true. James was part of the old guard who clung to the remnants of Judaism. His book was left in the bible as a check against cheap grace like Truster teaches where believers produce no works at all which is stupidity.

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