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  • #16
    Originally posted by daqq View Post
    I am on record for quoting the Good Shepherd, Yeshua.
    YOU are on record for stating that YHWH is your brother!

    I will say it over and over... Humanity was Blessed to have "Avi-'ad" Join with it, and thus, the familial implications are clear.

    I do not count myself ELOHIM, and never will. You are theologically abusing "Typification". You are a demon's tool Daqq. I promised you I would take you to task. It's happening.

    Jesus is God and Jesus is our Sin Bearer. You are about to have a little bit of light shined on you.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
      I will say it over and over... Humanity was Blessed to have "Avi-'ad" Join with it, and thus, the familial implications are clear.

      I do not count myself ELOHIM, and never will. You are theologically abusing "Typification". You are a demon's tool Daqq. I promised you I would take you to task. It's happening.

      Jesus is God and Jesus is our Sin Bearer. You are about to have a little bit of light shined on you.
      What? came the Logos of Elohim out from you? or came the Logos of Elohim to you only?
      The things that I wrote are from the commandments of the Master:

      John 10:34-36
      34 Yeshua answered them, Is it not written in your law, "I have said, You are Elohim"?
      35 If he called them Elohim, unto whom the Logos of Elohim came, and the scripture cannot be broken:
      36 You say of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, "You blaspheme!" because I said I am a son of Elohim?


      There is no capitalization in Hebrew and all the oldest Greek N/T writings are in Uncial, which is all capitals, so all I actually did was treat the text fairly as I explained in the opening of the thread you and your friends managed to get shut down yesterday. But then again you already openly denied the Testimony of Yeshua in my Logos-Word thread, which is the one you and your friends got shut down for that very reason; because you all openly deny the Testimony of Yeshua. So why should I expect you to believe the above? Why should I expect you to actually investigate the quote from the Psalm and search out what this all might truly mean? Silly me! Brains are not for use in your twisted religion!

      Comment


      • #18
        The Man Jesus is Raised "Life-making Spirit."

        When Jesus rose bodily from the dead, John's Gospel tells us how his disciple Thomas doubted that he had risen. But when he finally saw Jesus he said, "My Lord and My God."1 Thomas had said is the context of seeing and believing.2 We are here to be reminded of Jesus' earlier teaching about seeing and believing. Jesus had taught that to see him was to see the One who had sent him, the Father.3 And again he taught his disciples that to see him, Jesus, was to see the Father.4 And then Jesus explained that the manner in which they seen the Father is by the works he had done from the Father who was in him.5 It was the Father at work in Jesus.6 But now in his resurrection glory the Father was not just dwelling inside Jesus, the Father was in Jesus bodily. The Father was at work making Jesus' resurrection body immortally alive and in glory. The Father had clothed the man Jesus with his glory, His own divine nature, His own Holy Spirit. And so now where the man Jesus is, the Father also is, because he is bodily clothed in His Father's Spirit.

        Thomas actually said, "The Lord of me and the God of me." In the Greek language, if you wanted to refer to one person, you would say, "The Lord and God of me."7 But Thomas did not say this. He used the language which Greek speakers used when they wanted to refer to two people, "The Lord of me and the God of me."8 And so true to Jesus' teaching to him, Thomas no longer doubted but affirmed Jesus' earlier teaching to him, "If you have seen me you have seen the Father." And indeed, the Father was present right there before Thomas in Jesus' glorified body which was clothed in the glory of the Father, the Holy Spirit of his Father." We must also remember that what Thomas finally believed was the Jesus was alive and had risen from the dead. Thomas refused to believe Jesus was risen unless he saw the wounds in his hands and side. His confession affirms that he really believed it was Jesus standing before him and that Jesus had risen. Jesus had taught him, "In that day, you will know that I am in my Father." Thomas knew, Thomas confessed.

        Jesus rose from the dead. He was a man crucified in weakness but who now lives out of the power of God.9 He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the Spirit.10 Paul explains what the resurrection body is like.11 Jesus rose in a "Spiritual Body."12 The crucified man became "Life-making Spirit."13 Angels are spirits and so they are immortal and cannot die.14 Jesus explained that those who are worthy of the resurrection and the age to come cannot die anymore because they are like the angels and sons of God being sons of the resurrection.15

        http://www.angelfire.com/space/thego...leJesus12.html

        LA
        My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
          The Man Jesus is Raised "Life-making Spirit."

          When Jesus rose bodily from the dead, John's Gospel tells us how his disciple Thomas doubted that he had risen. But when he finally saw Jesus he said, "My Lord and My God."1 Thomas had said is the context of seeing and believing.2 We are here to be reminded of Jesus' earlier teaching about seeing and believing. Jesus had taught that to see him was to see the One who had sent him, the Father.3 And again he taught his disciples that to see him, Jesus, was to see the Father.4 And then Jesus explained that the manner in which they seen the Father is by the works he had done from the Father who was in him.5 It was the Father at work in Jesus.6 But now in his resurrection glory the Father was not just dwelling inside Jesus, the Father was in Jesus bodily. The Father was at work making Jesus' resurrection body immortally alive and in glory. The Father had clothed the man Jesus with his glory, His own divine nature, His own Holy Spirit. And so now where the man Jesus is, the Father also is, because he is bodily clothed in His Father's Spirit.

          Thomas actually said, "The Lord of me and the God of me." In the Greek language, if you wanted to refer to one person, you would say, "The Lord and God of me."7 But Thomas did not say this. He used the language which Greek speakers used when they wanted to refer to two people, "The Lord of me and the God of me."8 And so true to Jesus' teaching to him, Thomas no longer doubted but affirmed Jesus' earlier teaching to him, "If you have seen me you have seen the Father." And indeed, the Father was present right there before Thomas in Jesus' glorified body which was clothed in the glory of the Father, the Holy Spirit of his Father." We must also remember that what Thomas finally believed was the Jesus was alive and had risen from the dead. Thomas refused to believe Jesus was risen unless he saw the wounds in his hands and side. His confession affirms that he really believed it was Jesus standing before him and that Jesus had risen. Jesus had taught him, "In that day, you will know that I am in my Father." Thomas knew, Thomas confessed.

          Jesus rose from the dead. He was a man crucified in weakness but who now lives out of the power of God.9 He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the Spirit.10 Paul explains what the resurrection body is like.11 Jesus rose in a "Spiritual Body."12 The crucified man became "Life-making Spirit."13 Angels are spirits and so they are immortal and cannot die.14 Jesus explained that those who are worthy of the resurrection and the age to come cannot die anymore because they are like the angels and sons of God being sons of the resurrection.15

          http://www.angelfire.com/space/thego...leJesus12.html

          LA
          Indeed... however... remember when (Avi-'ad the Son... Isaiah 9:6) recieved His Name... (Ephesians 1:4)

          Again... don't forget this verse either... (John 14:8f)

          # Blessings Sister

          Comment


          • #20
            Dispelling Myths
            he argument that because Elohim (God) has a
            plural ending in Genesis 1:1, it must point to a
            plurality in GOD, is rejected by all good language study.
            It was a piece of popular folklore, which provided
            “comfort” to some that the God of the Bible was
            mysteriously “Triune” — and this despite the fact that
            God in the Hebrew Bible used every form of language
            possible to describe Himself as one single Divine Person.
            164 times God says of Himself “I am YHVH,” but Biblereaders, strongly indoctrinated by tradition, imagined that
            one Person was mysteriously plural!
            If Elohim is plural, because of its plural ending, then
            it must necessarily be translated “In the beginning Gods
            created the heaven and earth.” This is blatant polytheism
            and destroys the creed of Israel that “the LORD our God
            is one LORD” (Deut. 6:4 and affirmed by Jesus in Mark
            12:29). Jesus knew nothing at all about a plurality in
            God. Jesus was a Jew, and 64 out of 66 books in the
            Bible, including 25 out of our 27 NT books were written
            by men whose heritage and nationality were “Jewish” (i.e.
            related to the nation of Israel) and not Gentile. Luke who
            wrote a large part of the NT (two long books) was almost
            certainly of Gentile origin. But he had learned to revere
            the one and only God of the Jewish people.
            Consider this: A single pagan god, Milchom or
            Astarte or Dagon, is also individually called an elohim.
            These gods were not each plural! Did you know that in
            Genesis 42:30, 33 Joseph is called “the lords of the
            land”? Joseph was not more than one person! These
            plurals are known as “plurals of intensity” but they are
            not translated as literal plurals. The Greek New
            Testament Scripture invariably renders Elohim, referring
            to the One God, who is the Father (some 1300 times) by
            the singular Greek word theos. This is the way the Greek
            version of the OT (the Septuagint, or LXX) renders the
            word Elohim when if designates the one and only true
            God.
            Jesus uttered the classic monotheistic statement and
            confession, when he described the Father as “the only
            [monos] true God [theos]” in his prayer in John 17:3. He
            spoke of God as “the only God” (monos theos) in John
            5:44. Jesus connected belief in that single true God, the
            Father, as the first element in “eternal life” — “the life of
            the age to come” based on Daniel 12:2 where the sleeping
            dead will arise to the “life of the age,” which comes into
            our NT some 40 times as “the life of the age to come,”
            life in the future Kingdom.
            My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

            Comment


            • #21
              Very frequently in the NT God is “the GOD,” that is
              the one and only God of true belief as distinct from other
              pagan gods which always threaten to deceive us.
              Some today in desperation are reviving a completely
              false understanding of plurality in YHVH, because
              Genesis 19:24 reads that “YHVH rained brimstone from
              YHVH in heaven.” But they did not notice that “Solomon
              gathered the people to King Solomon” in 1 Kings 8:1.
              Two Solomons? Obviously not. These are special
              Hebrew idioms and easily explained as suchPeople who clutch at these anomalies forget that the
              One God of Israel is described by singular personal
              pronouns thousands upon thousands of times. You
              learned in high school (we hope!) that a singular personal
              pronoun refers to a single person. If you learn of someone
              who is I, ME, THEE, THOU, HIM, MYSELF,
              THYSELF, HIMSELF — can you concede the simple
              fact that God is a single Person?
              Unfortunately your church probably gathers under
              the strange banner of a GOD who is “three in one.” This
              teaching has been thought to be quite false to Jesus and
              Scripture by thousands of competent scholars and by 5
              American Presidents — and by Sir Isaac Newton who
              spoke of the West’s strange cult of “three gods.” Newton
              was deeply troubled by this non-biblical concept of God.
              John Milton, the British poet, and John Locke the
              philosopher were adamantly against the idea of a triune
              God. Others died at the hands of a cruel church for
              refusing to believe that the God of Scripture is triune.
              Michael Servetus was murdered by John Calvin over this
              issue.
              Counting how many God is in the Bible is in no way
              difficult. We are to rejoice and relax in the wonderfully
              sound and health-giving truth that as Jesus said “The
              LORD our GOD is one LORD” (the Greek of Mark
              12:29, reflecting the LXX of Deut. 6:4). Jesus upbraided
              Jews of his time for failing to believe Moses. If they
              would not receive the words of Moses predicting the
              Messiah, how would they believe in the Messiah who had
              come? (John 5:46).
              One Lord is not two Lords. Jesus declared his firm
              confession of the One God of Israel (Mark 12:29), and
              then as if to anticipate objections Jesus went on
              immediately to discuss Psalm 110:1, where there are two
              lords. It is hardly a matter of higher learning or advanced
              mathematics to see that if “the LORD our God is one
              LORD” (as Jesus had just said, in agreement with a
              friendly unitarian Jew), then the second lord of Psalm
              110:1 cannot also be GOD, making two Lord Gods! Then
              note (and Strong’s Concordance alas hides this from you)
              that the second lord, “my lord” (adoni) of Psalm 110:1 is
              never the title of Deity, but always the title of a superior
              who is not GOD. The capital letter in your Bible on the
              second lord of Psalm 110:1 is false and misleading. It
              should read “lord,” not “Lord”! A capitalized Lord
              regularly translates the Hebrew ADONAI (the Lord God,
              450 times) and the second lord of the psalm Jesus quoted
              to silence all objectors is not Adonai! It is adoni, my lord.
              ADONI occurs 195 times in the Hebrew Bible.
              Jesus, our teacher and lord (John 13:13), said in
              Mark 12:29, “The LORD our GOD is one LORD.” This
              should settle all doubts once and for all, that Jesus never,
              ever disturbed the central, core principle of all true
              religion that God is one single LORD. Tell your Jewish
              friends and your Muslim friends, and very gently even
              your Christian friends who are likely to be puzzled if not
              infuriated!
              You might want to help them by pointing out that
              even the famous reformer John Calvin said:
              “Elohim as a proof text with the plural ending to
              prove that God is plural appears to me to have little
              solidity. I will not insist upon the word; but rather caution
              readers to beware of violent glosses [comments] of this
              kind. They think that they have testimony against the
              Arians to prove the Deity of the Son and of the Spirit, but
              in the meantime they involve themselves in the error of
              Sabellius [Modalism or Oneness, represented by
              ‘Oneness Pentecostals’ today]…If we suppose three
              persons to be here [Gen. 1.1] denoted, there will be no
              distinction between them…For me it is sufficient that the
              plural number expresses those powers which God
              exercised in creating the world.”1
              “The followers of Jesus could assume that Jesus, like
              many other Jews of his day, would have regarded Deut.
              6:4-5 and Lev. 19:18 as the ideal summation of the
              Jewish law. Jesus was repeating a common Jewish
              understanding of the law…The words ‘the Lord our God
              is one Lord’ are the proper expression of Jesus’ piety.”2
              Why, you might ask, then do not churchgoers pay
              reverent attention to the command which Jesus calls the
              most important of all commands? Because churches have
              long since given up thinking of Jesus as their rabbi and
              teacher — contrary to his own constant admonition that
              we listen with rapt and concentrated attention to what he
              taught! Not to listen to Jesus and obey him is the one fatal
              error we humans cannot afford to make (John 3:36 —
              believing Jesus leads to immortality and refusing to obey
              him is a dangerous mistake!).
              To persuade your friends, invite them to explain
              Mark 12:29. Jesus agrees wholeheartedly with a Jewish
              scholar, and we know that Jews were believers in God as
              ONE single Divine Person, not a Trinity. Being exposed
              to the words of Jesus in Mark 12:29 can produce the
              necessary shock which enables believers to rethink! At
              present, once one says “Jesus is GOD,” one is admitting
              to belief in two who are GOD! This is not the
              monotheism of the Bible.
              The world of scholars today often treats the Bible as
              an unreliable source! That is hard for many to grasp! But
              the typical comment of scholars is that “we do not know
              whether Jesus said a given saying reported in the NT. It
              might be that the church made it up and put it back into
              the mouth of Jesus to give the impression that Jesus said
              it: but no one knows if Jesus really uttered these words!”
              1 Calvin, Commentary on Genesis, trans., ed., John King.
              2 Stephen Patterson, DD, The God of Jesus, p.

              http://www.focusonthekingdom.org/1512.pdf
              My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

              Comment


              • #22
                Elohim, El, Yahweh are different names for the same one Person.

                Furthermore: Ps. 83:13: “Let them know that Thou alone, whose name is Yahweh, art the Most High over all the earth.” Neh. 9:6: “Thou art Yahweh, thou alone. Thou has made the heavens, the heaven of heavens, with all their hosts, the earth and all that is in it, the seas and all that is in them.” 2 Sam. 22:32: “For who is El but Yahweh? And who is a rock except our Elohim?” Isa. 43:10, 11: “You, Jacob, are my witnesses, says Yahweh, and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am He. Before Me no El was formed nor shall there be after Me, I, I am Yahweh, and besides Me there is no Savior.” Isa. 45:42: “For I am El and there is no other.” Ps. 18:31: “For who is Eloah [singular form of Elohim] but Yahweh? And who is a rock except our Elohim?” Ps. 114:7: “Tremble, O earth, at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Eloah of Jacob.” Jer 10:10: “But Yahweh is the true Elohim, he is the living Elohim and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble and the nations will not be able to abide his indignation.”

                Then consider this: Of the 4,400 occurrences of the world Elohim (God) or theos (Gk. God), not one of them can be shown to mean “The Triune God” or “The Biune God.” Never, in fact, in Scripture when men wrote about their God did they ever imagine a tripersonal or bipersonal God. Such a God is foreign to Scripture and to Jesus. Is it surprising then that the end-products of a theology of God-Family, of uniplural God(s) do not demonstrate the unity of the spirit to which the Bible directs and exhorts us?

                We have the strange paradox in churches (speaking generally) that the most important of all doctrines that God is two or three is seldom if ever preached on. But if these strange concepts are challenged, then the full force of dogma comes into play and threats of excommunication and heresy go flying. When the detail of the argument for a Triune God emerges, the questioner is invited to believe that:

                1) “Today” (“You are My Son: Today I have begotten you” — Ps. 2:7) means “In eternity you are My Son.” In this church-speak, which is at the root of all our problems, “today = in eternity.” How then could God say “today” if He meant “today”? God here is being muzzled and told what He can say and what not.

                2) “Person” in Trinitarian definitions does not mean person. Beget does not mean beget, bring into existence. God is one ousia (essence or substance) existing in three hypostases (subsistencies).

                The term ousia is never used of God in the Bible. Hypostasis is not used to describe Jesus or the Holy Spirit.

                3) “I will be his Father” (II Sam. 7:14) really means “I have always been his Father.” Note how history is replaced by timelessness.

                Augustine (On the Trinity): “Human learning is scanty and affords no terms to express it. It is therefore answered ‘three Persons,’ not as if that was to the purpose [had any meaning] but something must be said and we must not be silent” (De Trinitate, Bk 5, ch. 9). The same Augustine in his Homilies on John felt it necessary to tamper with the sacred text of John 17:3, declaring that Jesus had said: “This is eternal life: that they believe in You and Jesus Christ whom You sent, as the One True God.” Note the complete alteration here in the interests of squeezing the Messiah into the Godhead. Jesus in fact described the Father here as “the only one who is truly God.”

                Professor Stuart of Yale and Andover (1780-1852), one of the most learned Trinitarians in the world, speaking of the definition of Person in the Trinity said: “I do not and cannot understand them. And to a definition I cannot consent, still less defend it, until I do understand what it signifies. I have no hesitation in saying that my mind is absolutely unable to elicit any distinct and certain ideas from any of the definitions of Person which I have ever examined.”

                It is a relief to turn from this strange grammar and “church-speak” to some sound facts, from standard authorities:


                http://focusonthekingdom.org/articles/elohim.htm
                My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by meshak View Post
                  The Son is also God?
                  Jesus, the seed of David, has been MADE both Lord (NOT YAHVEH)and Christ.

                  Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

                  Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
                  Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
                  Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
                  Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
                  Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

                  LA
                  My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
                    1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
                    1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
                    1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
                    1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
                    1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
                    My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
                      Jesus, the seed of David, has been MADE both Lord (NOT YAHVEH)and Christ.
                      I know that and no non trins deny that.

                      But Jesus is not "God".

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by meshak View Post
                        I know that and no non trins deny that.

                        But Jesus is not "God".
                        Jesus is the theos of the new creation.

                        Jesus is not the God.

                        LA
                        My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
                          Jesus is the theos of the new creation.

                          Jesus is not the God.

                          LA
                          But your OP in Arianism says Jesus is God.

                          It says the Son is God.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by meshak View Post
                            But your OP in Arianism says Jesus is God.

                            It says the Son is God.
                            Ho theos is The God, theos is just god.

                            It just means Heavenly authority, in this case the Highest Heavenly authority over the creation who is a man.

                            Hebrews 1:8 is like other verses in that just because the word “theos” (“GOD”) is used does not mean that it refers to the Father. It could easily be referring to “god” in the biblical sense that great men are called “god.” The Septuagint uses the word theos for God, but also for men in places like Psalm 82 where men represent God. The context must be the determining factor in deciding what “GOD” refers to. In this case, in Hebrews that we are studying, the context is clear. Throughout the entire context from Hebrews 1:1, Christ is seen to be lesser than God the Father. Therefore, the use of “theos” here should be translated “god.”

                            Actually I just looked up earliest greek and it does not say O God either.

                            So strike that out altogether.

                            LA
                            My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Evil.Eye. View Post
                              I will say it over and over... Humanity was Blessed to have "Avi-'ad" Join with it, and thus, the familial implications are clear.

                              I do not count myself ELOHIM, and never will. You are theologically abusing "Typification". You are a demon's tool Daqq. I promised you I would take you to task. It's happening.

                              Jesus is God and Jesus is our Sin Bearer. You are about to have a little bit of light shined on you.
                              Matthew 6

                              But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great*is*that darkness!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
                                Ho theos is The God, theos is just god.

                                It just means Heavenly authority, in this case the Highest Heavenly authority over the creation who is a man.




                                Actually I just looked up earliest greek and it does not say O God either.

                                So strike that out altogether.

                                LA
                                I don't think Daqq will argue about that. That's what he has been claiming too.

                                thanks for clarifying.

                                Comment

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