Trinity Evidence False

[Bard_the_Bowman]

TRINITY EVIDENCE FALSE
Everything that the trinitarians claims makes Jesus God. Are the same things we can do also. And it doesnt make us God.

Hey Squeaky,

I am curious. What other things can we do that Jesus could do, do you think?

1. He Resurrected Himself. (We've already covered that. We can't do that.)
2. Walk on water?
3. Multiply bread to feed thousands? (I'd do it if I could to save trips to the grocery store!)
4. Change the weather climate by merely speaking to a storm?
5. Turning water into wine? (And this would save trips to the liquor store.)

Are these some of the things that Jesus did that you think are the same things that we can do also?

Peace.

 

[Squeaky]

God the Father is the only True God. What Jesus said is, of course true.

And Jesus Christ is the only True God.

The Doctrine of the Trinity doesn't say that there is more than one True God.

It states that since the Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, there is three persons in the One True God.



Jesus Christ has two natures. One divine, one human. Sometimes He says things from His divinity (like, "Your sins are forgiven you.") and sometimes He says things from His human nature (like my God and your God.)

There is a difference.

Peace.

I said
lolol Well again we will have to agree to disagree. You get plum outside the rules of believing. I don't. I don't think beyond what is written, you do. I don't add things to the verses, you do.

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)

Heb 4:12-13
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
(NKJ)

 

[Squeaky]

Hey Squeaky,

I am curious. What other things can we do that Jesus could do, do you think?

1. He Resurrected Himself. (We've already covered that. We can't do that.)
2. Walk on water?
3. Multiply bread to feed thousands? (I'd do it if I could to save trips to the grocery store!)
4. Change the weather climate by merely speaking to a storm?
5. Turning water into wine? (And this would save trips to the liquor store.)

Are these some of the things that Jesus did that you think are the same things that we can do also?

Peace.

I said
lol Which of them claim Jesus is God?? None.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

I said
lol Which of them claim Jesus is God?? None.

Well, ultimately His Resurrection does as the greatest proof of all.

All of the others give evidence that He is God. Of course they do.

Do you know lots of other people that can do those things or something?

They are all evidence that He is who He said He is.

If those are not what you had in mind in your original post, than what was? You said that we can do all of the things that Jesus did but it doesn't make us God.

What things were you referring to exactly?

Peace.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

I said
lolol Well again we will have to agree to disagree. You get plum outside the rules of believing. I don't. I don't think beyond what is written, you do. I don't add things to the verses, you do.

You cherry picked verses to create your own rules for believing. That in itself is going beyond what is written because the bible simply nowhere says "Here are the rules for believing."

In other words, you made up your own rules by selecting only certain verses and ignoring others. (Like 1 Thessalonians 2:13 which you ignored because Paul says that what they taught out loud is the Word of God.)

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)

Heb 4:12-13
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
(NKJ)

Tell me, when Paul says to the Thessalonians that they accept what He teaches as "the Word of God" and not "the word of men"....doesn't that contradict your idea to only believe in that which is written?

What do you do with that verse? Just ignore it?

Peace.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

I said
Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

I guess we can wrap it up. Thanks for the conversation and God bless you.

I do not agree to disagree, though.

I think that your original statement that we can do all the things that Trinitarians think make Jesus God is illogical and does not square with reality.

No offense intended to you personally, of course.

Peace.

 

[Squeaky]

I guess we can wrap it up. Thanks for the conversation and God bless you.

I do not agree to disagree, though.

I think that your original statement that we can do all the things that Trinitarians think make Jesus God is illogical and does not square with reality.

No offense intended to you personally, of course.

Peace.

I said
Well I wrote that 20 years ago, and the context of it was all the things I listed. But you listed things I hadn't thought of before. But Peter walked on water, the apostles raised the dead. Some people just want to argue. And I don't like to argue. I don't mind tradeing talents.

 

[Squeaky]

You cherry picked verses to create your own rules for believing. That in itself is going beyond what is written because the bible simply nowhere says "Here are the rules for believing."

In other words, you made up your own rules by selecting only certain verses and ignoring others. (Like 1 Thessalonians 2:13 which you ignored because Paul says that what they taught out loud is the Word of God.)




Tell me, when Paul says to the Thessalonians that they accept what He teaches as "the Word of God" and not "the word of men"....doesn't that contradict your idea to only believe in that which is written?

What do you do with that verse? Just ignore it?

Peace.

I said
I don't think you understand the operation of the Holy Spirit. I don't pick the verses, I just share the ones He gives me. I don't pick the subject He does. And I'm sure there is some verses that He hasn't given me yet. But I will wait until He thinks its time.

 

[Squeaky]

MORE FALSE EVIDENCE FROM THE TRINITY

Every verse is a spiritual principle about righteousness. And they are all written in the context they are in to help the beginner learn. And to lead one to the Holy Spirit the only guaranteed teacher from God. Then the Holy Spirit will put them principles in the Spiritual order that God intended.
The context of verse 28. Taken by itself looks like it is speaking of Gods blood. But taken in context with the way it is written. Paul is speaking of the ministry that Jesus gave him to preach about the church of God that Jesus was preaching. And in that context Paul is speaking about the blood of Jesus.

Acts 20:24-28
24 "But none of these things move me; nor do I count my life dear to myself, so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.
25 "And indeed, now I know that you all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, will see my face no more.
26 "Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men.
27 "For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.
28 "Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
(NKJ)

The context of verse 8 taken by itself looks like God is calling Jesus God. And God being a spiritual title of authority. But taken in context in verse 6 we see that will only happen AFTER God brings Jesus back into the world. Which hasnt happened yet.

Heb 1:6-8
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits and His ministers a flame of fire."
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
(NKJ)

The context of verse 13 appears that Jesus and God are the same. But read in context we see that it is talking about who brought grace and salvation to show us which is Jesus. And He brought it from God, God sent Jesus. So they are both working together for our redemption.

Titus 2:11-14
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,
13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

The context of verse 9 Is look at what all I do, I'm not doing it but the Father that dwells in Me. God is invisible, but if you want to know what God would look like watch what I do.

John 14:8-11
8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us."
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
11 "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
2 Cor 5:19
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(NKJ)

This is the true God the One that is in the Son Jesus Christ.
I Jn 5:19-20
19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
(NKJ)

And here even we are in the form of God, with the right to make our own decisions. But as Christ says look out for others as well as ourselves. And place God first in our lives as Christ done.

Phil 2:1-10

1 Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy,
2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.
4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
(NKJ)


Col 1:12-17
12 giving thanks to the Father(God) who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light.
13 He(God) has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son(Jesus of His(God) love,
14 in whom we have redemption through His(Jesus) blood, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(Father), the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him(God) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him(Jesus) and for Him(God).
17 And He(God) is before all things, and in Him(God) all things consist.
(NKJ)

 

[randomvim]

wow. there is a bunch to read. a few thoughts.

1. If Jesus was not God, then why is his life so different from any other prophet? why do we have Gabriel approach St. Mary? Why do we have St. John the Baptist? So much of Jesus sets Him apart from other prophets.

2. Trinitarism uses written and oral traditions. it derived from those who do not rely purely on the Bible.

Should we not consider both these traditions?

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk

 

[Squeaky]

wow. there is a bunch to read. a few thoughts.

1. If Jesus was not God, then why is his life so different from any other prophet? why do we have Gabriel approach St. Mary? Why do we have St. John the Baptist? So much of Jesus sets Him apart from other prophets.

2. Trinitarism uses written and oral traditions. it derived from those who do not rely purely on the Bible.

Should we not consider both these traditions?

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk

I said
All I can do is share what Jesus gave me through His revelations. I learned from the Holy Spirit and the revelations of Jesus Christ. I went through the three years of the milk understanding and the eleven years of the meat understanding. Then I came to the revelations of Jesus Christ. Now I am suppose to demonstrate the Spirit.

1 Cor 2:1-5

1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
(NKJ)


Mark 7:6-9
6 He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
8 "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men-- the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do."
9 And He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.
(NKJ)

 

[drbrumley]

MORE FALSE EVIDENCE FROM THE TRINITY

Every verse is a spiritual principle about righteousness. And they are all written in the context they are in to help the beginner learn. And to lead one to the Holy Spirit the only guaranteed teacher from God. Then the Holy Spirit will put them principles in the Spiritual order that God intended.
The context of verse 28. Taken by itself looks like it is speaking of Gods blood. But taken in context with the way it is written. Paul is speaking of the ministry that Jesus gave him to preach about the church of God that Jesus was preaching. And in that context Paul is speaking about the blood of Jesus.

Acts 20:24-28
24 "But none of these things move me; nor do I count my life dear to myself, so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.
25 "And indeed, now I know that you all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, will see my face no more.
26 "Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men.
27 "For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.
28 "Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
(NKJ)

The context of verse 8 taken by itself looks like God is calling Jesus God. And God being a spiritual title of authority. But taken in context in verse 6 we see that will only happen AFTER God brings Jesus back into the world. Which hasnt happened yet.

Heb 1:6-8
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits and His ministers a flame of fire."
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
(NKJ)

The context of verse 13 appears that Jesus and God are the same. But read in context we see that it is talking about who brought grace and salvation to show us which is Jesus. And He brought it from God, God sent Jesus. So they are both working together for our redemption.

Titus 2:11-14
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,
13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

The context of verse 9 Is look at what all I do, I'm not doing it but the Father that dwells in Me. God is invisible, but if you want to know what God would look like watch what I do.

John 14:8-11
8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us."
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
11 "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
2 Cor 5:19
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(NKJ)

This is the true God the One that is in the Son Jesus Christ.
I Jn 5:19-20
19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
(NKJ)

And here even we are in the form of God, with the right to make our own decisions. But as Christ says look out for others as well as ourselves. And place God first in our lives as Christ done.

Phil 2:1-10

1 Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy,
2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.
4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
(NKJ)


Col 1:12-17
12 giving thanks to the Father(God) who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light.
13 He(God) has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son(Jesus of His(God) love,
14 in whom we have redemption through His(Jesus) blood, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(Father), the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him(God) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him(Jesus) and for Him(God).
17 And He(God) is before all things, and in Him(God) all things consist.
(NKJ)

:yawn:

 

[Squeaky]

:yawn:

I said
lol My responsibility ends after I show it to you. That is what I am suppose to do. Once I have showed it to you all the responsibility goes on you to believe.

1 Cor 2:1-5

1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
(NKJ)

 

[drbrumley]

I said
lol My responsibility ends after I show it to you. That is what I am suppose to do. Once I have showed it to you all the responsibility goes on you to believe.

1 Cor 2:1-5

1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
(NKJ)

Yeah, the only problem with that is I know you didn't get this from God nor Jesus. So your pathetic attempt to say this is what God told you is a lie.

 

[ok doser]

Yeah, the only problem with that is I know you didn't get this from God nor Jesus. So your pathetic attempt to say this is what God told you is a lie.

he has a familiar spirit

 

[Squeaky]

Yeah, the only problem with that is I know you didn't get this from God nor Jesus. So your pathetic attempt to say this is what God told you is a lie.

I said
If you are motivated by an emotion your in big trouble with God. If you are motivated by the Holy Spirit you would have the verses to support your claim. If you even knew the Holy Spirit He would bear witness to what I say.
I not here to hurt anyone I am only here to demonstrate the Spirit. The Word calls it trading talents. But some don't seem to want to trade. They just want to stop me from demonstrating the Spirit.

John 3:34
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
John 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
John 14:24-26
24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.

 

[randomvim]

I said
All I can do is share what Jesus gave me through His revelations. I learned from the Holy Spirit and the revelations of Jesus Christ. I went through the three years of the milk understanding and the eleven years of the meat understanding. Then I came to the revelations of Jesus Christ. Now I am suppose to demonstrate the Spirit.

1 Cor 2:1-5

1And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.
2For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
3I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
4And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
(NKJ)


Mark 7:6-9
6He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
7And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
8"For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men-- the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do."
9And He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.
(NKJ)

This does not go into my question. There are many things in the Bible that pertain a meaning and purpose. Similar to memoirs of today, keep events relevant to the story. We need to know about Mary and Joseph same as we would need to know John.

1 Cor. 2:
http://newadvent.org/bible/1co002.htm

What if another has the same revelation but their message is different?

what if both messages are incomplete?

 

[randomvim]

I said
lol My responsibility ends after I show it to you. That is what I am suppose to do. Once I have showed it to you all the responsibility goes on you to believe.

1 Cor 2:1-5

1And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.
2For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
3I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
4And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
(NKJ)

So you cant explain the things you quote? I have read some of the things you quote but come to a different conclusion.

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk

 

[drbrumley]

I said
If you are motivated by an emotion your in big trouble with God. If you are motivated by the Holy Spirit you would have the verses to support your claim. If you even knew the Holy Spirit He would bear witness to what I say.
I not here to hurt anyone I am only here to demonstrate the Spirit. The Word calls it trading talents. But some don't seem to want to trade. They just want to stop me from demonstrating the Spirit.

John 3:34
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
John 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
John 14:24-26
24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.

LOL!!!It isn't emotion you nutcase.

 

[drbrumley]

So you cant explain the things you quote? I have read some of the things you quote but come to a different conclusion.

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk

Call it reading comprehension skills.