John Calvin's Nazi God.
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Eagles Wings
New member
Right, the Lord Jesus Christ, tasted death for some men, for those who believe. John 3:16
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
You are cheating Jerry.
When Lon said it is Christianity not Calvinism he was responding to your whining about God creating Adam with a lusting spirit.
That being said, if you are saying one of the things Calvanists accuse God of is not sending Jesus to taste death for every man, fine.
But for the sake of clarity please stop trying to imply you are killing two birds with one stone when you aren't. :carryon:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Yes, and we have been through this before:
Let us look at this verse which speaks of the appearing of the Lord Jesus, our great God and Savior:
"...while we wait for the blessed hope--the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13).
The following passage speaks of us looking for that appearance and the "glory" which we will see will be the Lord Jesus' "glorious body":
"But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body" (Phil.3:20-21).
The following verses are also speaking of the same "appearance" and the same "glory":
"Beloved, now are we the children of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).
"When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory" (Col.3:4).
So the "glory" in the following verse is referring to the glorious body in which we will see the Lord Jesus when He will appear:
"...while we wait for the blessed hope--the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13).
That is why Paul refers to that glory as belonging to the Lord Jesus, our great God and Savior.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
That is not what Lon said. Instead he said this:
Simply because it is Christianity, not just Calvinism.
Besides that, I never said anything about the way which Adam was created. I said that Calvinism teaches that all of Adam's descendants are made wholly inclined to all evil.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Then why do we read that He tasted death for every man?
Lon
Well-known member
Men reaching vainly for God rather than God reaching men. You reject the necessary work of Salvation so Calvinism becomes "Christian" effectively in this thread. As I said, such is a different discussion.
On the first, :nono: Even Open Theists agree it is consistent, not fractured. On the second, how? It is less concerned with self, more concerned with a consistent theology from God's perspective. This is contrasted AGAINST your "god-within" and intact facilities. I know, for fact, not a lot was left intact from my Fall. It was grace that saved me. It was God, reaching me. How in the wide-world of sports could someone say that isn't loving? Seriously. You may disagree as does the author of this thread, but how could one ever say it wasn't loving? :idunno: Caught in details, and cursory glimpses, I'm aware but when someone explains like this that it is loving, that He is loving, how then could someone come back upon such and say "no"?
Really? Are you going to stick with 'pretending?' I believe accuracy is needed in this kind of discussion. "Pretending" is vitriolic. Purposely so? If, then the discussion is over because we'd not be dealing with genuine discussion at that point, simply vitriolic scapegoating emote. We get that a lot, so it isn't unexpected.
John Lennon penned "All You Need is Love." It mandates that Love is God. The scripture says opposite: God is Love. God is love, therefore His every interaction with man comes with who God is. However, Love is not God. He is righteous and just. Even you should understand that this world is in a mess. Not a mess we can get out of. It is ingrained in us, infects us, courses all through our selfish relationships and desires.
Such would point to a need for a Savior, so I'm unsure if you can embrace that.
No, not fate. Fate is impersonal: "God." He is ultimately subject to God." REALLY look at this. Your realization is at hand, because this is exactly what we are saying: Man is ultimately subject to God. I hope other anti-Calvinists pay attention. Look at your sentence: "
Absolutely, for as such, we'd be our own God and deny His Deity and rights. If you were really a new age universalist, you'd see a LOT more truth and 'god' in what I am telling you. The Eastern and New Age philosophies are inconsistent. They never understand their own hypocrisy, failure, and lack.
Absolutely. Do you understand that good has to triumph? Jesus said ONLY God is good. See why you need to read the Bible? You miss so much.
Well, other than the mouse in your pocket, it is merely your opinion.
Lon
Well-known member
:nono: Learn what we actually believe. Some may agree but it isn't Calvinism generally.
Lon,
More philosophy and no scripture as usual.
LA
More philosophy and no scripture as usual.
LA
Eagles Wings
New member
In all my days as a Christian, much before I'd even heard of Calvinism, I thought the bible taught that Christ died for His beloved sheep only and not every individual.
Lon
Well-known member
:nono: Some may agree but it isn't Calvinism generally.
I believe the difference (and I get to things differently at times than other Calvinists), is what His tasting accomplishes. It gives Him the right to impart life and to judge. An argument against Calvinism nearly always carries a sentiment toward universal salvation, which actually nullifies the death of Jesus Christ. Let me ask you this (sincerely and with a desire to understand): How do men get saved? By themselves? Is it only those that want Jesus that get saved? Isn't that preference too? "I will save only those who want me." Well, that'd make it easy to distinguish between saved and unsaved BUT it'd have you about in the same camp as a Calvinist. The Calvinist simply doesn't not name what man does, but rather looks to what God does and then describes it. If you think about it, the difference between Calvinism and other descriptions is really based one what he/she is thinking of when they describe man being saved. The Calvinist (at least this is how it is with me) moved from description of 'how I was saved' to description of "How God saved me." I think if any man/woman describes "How God saved me" it will always sound Calvinistic.
Lon
Well-known member
Again, start a thread and invite me to discuss those scriptures. This isn't that thread. It is about scripture and I am quoting scripture (w/o references)
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
In all fairness Freelight does do alotta philosophizing.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
LOL, at one time I thought that only 1/2 got saved.
As many as I love I chasten and rebuke.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
I dont know. Could you quote the particular verse, context and embellish your inquiry to assist a response? And how it relates.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Divine Wisdom School.......
Divine Wisdom School.......
Oh quite the contrary if you look at the teachings of Jesus himself, undistorted or unadded to by later traditional orthodox inventions and developments
- your investment in Reformed Theology, I dont know how deep or ingrained it is even confounds things more) - if you knew the general precepts/propositions of Theosophy, even of the Blavatskian kind, ('theosophy in general can include the whole spectrum of ancient wisdom or perennial wisdom teachings universal to all traditions, the Theosophical Society is just one branch of this general catagory) per their ethical, moral and religious principles and chief aims and ideals, you would not make such a statement. You only do so because of your preconceived, presuppositional and prefigured religious bias and presumptions, on a complexity of levels. I've got many more years of study and so do any along the path Godward. The ancient wisdom is a perennial school, taking life-times to even progress in significant ways upon,...hence the divine providence of mutiple-life-experiences to engage in the process
A probable thread on Theosophy will come forth in due time
Divine Wisdom School.......
Oh quite the contrary if you look at the teachings of Jesus himself, undistorted or unadded to by later traditional orthodox inventions and developments
- your investment in Reformed Theology, I dont know how deep or ingrained it is even confounds things more) - if you knew the general precepts/propositions of Theosophy, even of the Blavatskian kind, ('theosophy in general can include the whole spectrum of ancient wisdom or perennial wisdom teachings universal to all traditions, the Theosophical Society is just one branch of this general catagory) per their ethical, moral and religious principles and chief aims and ideals, you would not make such a statement. You only do so because of your preconceived, presuppositional and prefigured religious bias and presumptions, on a complexity of levels. I've got many more years of study and so do any along the path Godward. The ancient wisdom is a perennial school, taking life-times to even progress in significant ways upon,...hence the divine providence of mutiple-life-experiences to engage in the process A probable thread on Theosophy will come forth in due time
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Sorry 'bout that. Nitpicker.
I wont even bother trying to nit pick that.
Nit-picking has its bennies in some fields, as well as cherry-picking :crackup:
blackbirdking
New member
This is a matter of perception:
1. Hitler did not create the people he annihilated; he only chose them.
2. God created people to annihilate them because he chose to do so beforehand. In my feeble mindedness, I think God was the worse of the two.
However:
They both did what they thought was good.
You see, Hitler had no choice in the matter; he was simply doing God's Will. Just like the twin towers; God wanted them wrecked and those people to perish. If you don't think so, just ask the people who masterminded the operation.
The problem I have with all this is, how does one trust a God who thinks Hitler was good (He must think it because He willed it)?
After all, everybody does His Will; we have no choice.
Anyone who says they trust a God like that is delusional, or lying.
I suppose attorney John Calvin will argue the insanity plea for himself at the Great Judgment.
It seems it is all about nit-picking and cherry picking when it comes to debate.
That's why it is meaningless to debate faith even using the scripture.
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