pacifism for true Jesus' followers.

meshak

meshak

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Rosenritter said:
The question is what you are talking about. I asked a direct question: "Where did I interpret either of those passages in regards to killing enemies?" I only posted two passages of scripture. Are you saying those two passages of scripture tell us that we should kill our enemies?
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On the contrary, it is opposite.
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

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ok doser said:
fat man and little boy didn't come down from heaven, they were dropped from airplanes

and regardless of their tech, they were nothing more than big bombs - in fact, we have bigger non-nuke bombs in our arsenal right now
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And the dew doesn't come down from heaven, it forms from the clouds.

Genesis 1:20 KJV
(20) And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Daniel 4:33 KJV
(33) The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.

"Heaven" doesn't necessarily mean the throne of God. It also applies to the darkness that holds the stars and the sky that holds the birds and the weather. Fat Man and Little Boy certainly came down from the clouds.

But tell us about these bigger bombs. Are these owned by the USA? Has anyone else dropped these bigger bombs down from the sky yet? Still seems to me that this fire from heaven in the sight of the nations is a pretty unique identifier that the USA has been zealous not to share with others.
 
drbrumley

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Rosenritter said:
And the dew doesn't come down from heaven, it forms from the clouds.

Daniel 4:33 KJV
(33) The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.

"Heaven" doesn't necessarily mean the throne of God. It also applies to the darkness that holds the stars and the sky that holds the birds and the weather. Fat Man and Little Boy certainly came down from the clouds.

But tell us about these bigger bombs. Are these owned by the USA? Has anyone else dropped these bigger bombs down from the sky yet?
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yeah they were bombing Godzilla, trying to kill him.
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

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meshak said:
On the contrary, it is opposite.
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Except those passages do not state the opposite either. They don't prove your point, they don't prove anyone's point, the only thing they were is the best that I could find as touching Christians in the military. The former was John's advice for soldiers that came to him as he laid the way for Christianity, and the latter was the conversion of a Gentile who happened to be a solider over other soldiers.

The point is that it isn't directly addressed for or against, but if anyone has something more applicable, that it is an invitation for them to bring it to the table. Short of what we had already laid down, as what is expected of a solider compared to what is expected of a Christian. "Love thy enemy' in the fulfillment of "thou shalt not kill" and all that.
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

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Rosenritter said:
You no longer have the million man army or the nukes in that scenario. Instead I'll give you, Christian Avenger of the Kingdom, a special book. You have said that it is your right to judge who lives and dies and what counts as tyranny, so in this book if you write someone's name they will instantly die. It's more efficient than a gun. In this hypothetical scenario, do you use this book to carry through what you said you would do with force of arms?
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Paul lived under a tyrannical regime that murdered Christians. He didn't advocate overthrowing the Roman government. Explain? Or are you saying that the REAL Christians (not Paul) did overthrow the government and we all missed it because the winners rewrote history?
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I really was hoping to hear how Aimiel would answer those questions.
 
meshak

meshak

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Rosenritter said:
Except those passages do not state the opposite either. They don't prove your point, they don't prove anyone's point, the only thing they were is the best that I could find as touching Christians in the military. The former was John's advice for soldiers that came to him as he laid the way for Christianity, and the latter was the conversion of a Gentile who happened to be a solider over other soldiers.

The point is that it isn't directly addressed for or against, but if anyone has something more applicable, that it is an invitation for them to bring it to the table. Short of what we had already laid down, as what is expected of a solider compared to what is expected of a Christian. "Love thy enemy' in the fulfillment of "thou shalt not kill" and all that.
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It is not hard to see at all that His followers are not be armed. do you see any account that Jesus and His disciples killed anyone for self-defense? None.
 
meshak

meshak

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Rosenritter said:
Except those passages do not state the opposite either. They don't prove your point, they don't prove anyone's point, the only thing they were is the best that I could find as touching Christians in the military. The former was John's advice for soldiers that came to him as he laid the way for Christianity, and the latter was the conversion of a Gentile who happened to be a solider over other soldiers.

The point is that it isn't directly addressed for or against, but if anyone has something more applicable, that it is an invitation for them to bring it to the table. Short of what we had already laid down, as what is expected of a solider compared to what is expected of a Christian. "Love thy enemy' in the fulfillment of "thou shalt not kill" and all that.
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Take a look at my OP again:

pacifism for true Jesus' followers.
Jesus followers should not endorse any kind of violent practice such as joining the military.

Here is my verses to back up my claim:

Luke 6:27-36 King James Version)

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32For if ye love them which love you what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34And if ye to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Fatheralso is merciful.

and some more:

Matthew 26:52
“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.

Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."
John 18:36

And His faithful disciple harmonize with Jesus' word:

For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. (2 corinthian 10:4-5)

Romans 12:17-21
17Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. 20Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head." 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

II Corinthians 10:3,4
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds."

Ephesians 6:12
"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."
 
JudgeRightly

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meshak said:
It is not hard to see at all that His followers are not be armed. do you see any account that Jesus and His disciples killed anyone for self-defense? None.
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:think:

And He said to them, [JESUS]“When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?”[/JESUS] So they said, “Nothing.”Then He said to them, [JESUS]“But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’ For the things concerning Me have an end.”[/JESUS]So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, [JESUS]“It is enough.”[/JESUS] - Luke 22:35-38 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke22:35-38&version=NKJV

Why, oh why, Meshak, do you reject Jesus' words?
 
meshak

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JudgeRightly said:
:think:

And He said to them, [JESUS]“When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?”[/JESUS] So they said, “Nothing.”Then He said to them, [JESUS]“But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’ For the things concerning Me have an end.”[/JESUS]So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, [JESUS]“It is enough.”[/JESUS] - Luke 22:35-38 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke22:35-38&version=NKJV

Why, oh why, Meshak, do you reject Jesus' words?
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what am I rejecting?
 
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