The Trinity

[marhig]

And how do you obtain that faith by the grace of God and through Christ Jesus by the word of God?

By hearing the word of God, through Christ by the power of the Spirit. Jesus said his words are Spirit and they are life!

You are asking a lot of questions, are you leading somewhere with them? Thanks

 

[lifeisgood]

That is right.

Are you positively, no question about it, definitely so, that you, gt, have REPENTED of every SINGLE SIN you have ever committed, those of commission and those of omission?

I do not believe that the Bible declares for you to hope, to have faith, to believe in your own repentance so then God will accept you. Don't think that is what the Bible declares.

 

[marhig]

Aren't God and Christ actually titles and positions that have meaning? My point being is that in a sense God may not be Christ and Christ may not be God, in the same sense that Sheriff is not Judge and Judge is not Sheriff. The point being here is that while roles may not be identical to each other, the same person might fill both roles.

Jesus can be both LORD and Christ.

So why then, does Christ Jesus call God his God?

 

[God's Truth]

Are you positively, no question about it, definitely so, that you, gt, have REPENTED of every SINGLE SIN you have ever committed, those of commission and those of omission?

I do not believe that the Bible declares for you to hope, to have faith, to believe in your own repentance so then God will accept you. Don't think that is what the Bible declares.

Jesus' words are LIFE and he IS the WAY.

You must do what Jesus says to be chosen for the gift.

You say you believe---well, BELIEVING IS OBEYING.

Believing is obey but it is dead belief if you do not obey and repent.

 

[God's Truth]

So why then, does Christ Jesus call God his God?

Because God the Father really came as a Man and did not pretend to.

Who but God the Father in heaven should Man pray to?

 

[God's Truth]

Debate or preach the word, gt, not defend God.

God does not need you to defend Him.
God does not need me to defend Him.

He who created the world and all that is in it has the power to defend Himself all by Himself. Thank you very much.

You keep going against God's Truth even when you can read what is plainly written.

Jesus IS THE WORD OF GOD.

The Word of God is God.

Jesus only spoke what God SAYS.

The gospel IS HIS WORD.

I have given you many scriptures that say to defend the Truth.

 

[lifeisgood]

By hearing the word of God, through Christ by the power of the Spirit. You are asking a lot of questions, are you leading somewhere with them? Thanks

Where do you leave the blood of the perfect sacrifice?

Where do you leave that God says 'without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin'?

Remember that God Himself says that when 'I (God) see the blood, I (God) will pass over you [save you].'

Am I incorrect in saying that you do not believe in the shed blood of the perfect sacrifice to save humankind?

Would you have put the blood of the perfect sacrifice on the doorposts of the door of your house? That is the same today.

People then had to have faith in the blood (which was the correct object). They did not have faith in their getting inside the house.

They did not have the experience of seeing that the blood was going to save them. They only had faith that the blood on the doorposts was going to save them.

Only when the blood was seen by God was the house passed over. It is the same today. Unless God sees the blood of His Son on the doorposts of our hearts, He will not pass over us [He will not save us].

Faith is definitely necessary, however, it has to be faith in the correct object and God's object is the shed blood of His Beloved Son in us.

 

[lifeisgood]

Jesus' words are LIFE and he IS the WAY.

Correct.

You must do what Jesus says to be chosen for the gift.

He said to BELIEVE.

You say you believe---well, BELIEVING IS OBEYING.

No, gt, believing is NOT obeying.

I believe that if I look both ways before I cross a busy street I’ll be OK. However, if I do not believe that I need to look both ways, I’ll be dead.

Believing is obey but it is dead belief if you do not obey and repent.

Incorrect.

===

I do not believe that the Bible declares for you to hope, to have faith, to believe in your own repentance so then God will accept you. Don't think that is what the Bible declares.

 

[Rosenritter]

So why then, does Christ Jesus call God his God?

Because it would be absurd if Jesus said that he had a different God, and it would be entirely misconstrued if he were to say that he were godless.

Us humans have a tendency to get confused because we relate to things from the perspective of being in only one place at a time. That's why single passages emphasizing roles aren't going to solve the question one way or another. I would encourage that it be taken somewhere concrete, when positive declarations are used, such as "I AM the first and the last" saith the LORD, saith Jesus, and there are no other gods before him.

 

[lifeisgood]

You keep going against God's Truth even when you can read what is plainly written.

Jesus IS THE WORD OF GOD.

The Word of God is God.

Jesus only spoke what God SAYS.

The gospel IS HIS WORD.

I have given you many scriptures that say to defend the Truth.

gt, one more time, when a verse is simply plucked out of its original context all that is being parroted is a pretext.

 

[marhig]

Where do you leave the blood of the perfect sacrifice?

Where do you leave that God says 'without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin'?

Remember that God Himself says that when 'I (God) see the blood, I (God) will pass over you [save you].'

Am I incorrect in saying that you do not believe in the shed blood of the perfect sacrifice to save humankind?

Would you have put the blood of the perfect sacrifice on the doorposts of the door of your house? That is the same today.

People then had to have faith in the blood (which was the correct object). They did not have faith in their getting inside the house.

They did not have the experience of seeing that the blood was going to save them. They only had faith that the blood on the doorposts was going to save them.

Only when the blood was seen by God was the house passed over. It is the same today. Unless God sees the blood of His Son on the doorposts of our hearts, He will not pass over us [He will not save us].

Faith is definitely necessary, however, it has to be faith in the correct object and God's object is the shed blood of His Beloved Son in us.

I was waiting for that, and no, you are wrong, I do believe in the blood, I've never said I don't. I don't see it as it do and don't believe that Jesus being scourged, humiliated and crucified saves anyone! Life saves, and we are saved by his life!

We are saved by the grace of God, through faith. Jesus was saving before he was murdered!

And here's a verse for you to think about.

1 Thessalonians 2

For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: WHO BOTH KILLED THE LORD JESUS, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and THEY PLEASE NOT GOD, and are contrary to all men:

 

[lifeisgood]

I was waiting for that, and no, you are wrong, I do believe in the blood, I've never said I don't. I don't see it as it do and don't believe that Jesus being scourged, humiliated and crucified saves anyone! Life saves, and we are saved by his life!

We are saved by the grace of God, through faith. Jesus was saving before he was murdered!

And here's a verse for you to think about.

1 Thessalonians 2

For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: WHO BOTH KILLED THE LORD JESUS, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and THEY PLEASE NOT GOD, and are contrary to all men:

So, you, would not have applied the blood to the doorposts of your house then either and would have allowed death to come into your house . Got it.

 

[marhig]

Because it would be absurd if Jesus said that he had a different God, and it would be entirely misconstrued if he were to say that he were godless.

Us humans have a tendency to get confused because we relate to things from the perspective of being in only one place at a time. That's why single passages emphasizing roles aren't going to solve the question one way or another. I would encourage that it be taken somewhere concrete, when positive declarations are used, such as "I AM the first and the last" saith the LORD, saith Jesus, and there are no other gods before him.

Here you go, take a look at these, it's pretty clear that God is the God of Christ Jesus, but most Trinitarians seem to just bypass all the following verses.

John 7:16

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

John 5:30

*I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

2 Thessalonians 2

Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given*us*everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,*Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

It is not mine to grant but is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.(Matthew 20:20-23 KJV)

1 Corinthians 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?(Matthew 26:39 & 27:46 KJV)

Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me, not by my will, but thy will.(Luke 22:42 KJV)

Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.(Luke 23:46 KJV)

Father, the hour is come; glorify your Son - as you have given him power over all flesh

John continues:

John 17:3 kjv

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. (John 5:19 KJV)

I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me bears witness of me. (John 8:18 KJV).

Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father…I ascend unto my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.”(John 20:17 KJV)

I go unto the Father, for my Father is greater than I.”(John 14:28 KJV)

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.(John 5-30)

Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God(Mark 10:17-18 KJV)

And that is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, but to us there is but one God, the Father of whom are all things and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things and we by him. (1 Corinthians 8:4-6 KJV)

But I would have you know that the head of every man in Christ and the head of the woman is the man and the head of Christ is God. (1 Corinthians 11:3).

For there is one God and one mediator between God and man,the man Christ Jesus.(1 Timothy 2:5 KJV)

Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort. (2Corinthians 1:3 KJV)

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with*him, that we may be also glorified together(Romans 8)

1 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope; 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ (rev 12)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 1:3 KJV)

1 Peter 3

Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.(Hebrews 10)

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh,that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent..I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Ephesians 1

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him

Revelation 1

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him

Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.(Hebrews 1:9)

Revelation 3

Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God and I will write upon him my new name..He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.(Ephesians 4:6 KJV)

 

[lifeisgood]

Because God the Father really came as a Man and did not pretend to.

There is not one verse in the whole of the Bible that declares that the Father came as a man.

 

[marhig]

Because God the Father really came as a Man and did not pretend to.

Who but God the Father in heaven should Man pray to?

Why pray to God if he is God? That's nonsense!

God didn't come as a man, he came in a man he was in his fullness in Christ Jesus bodily. Jesus was in the express image of God, but he isn't God

 

[lifeisgood]

Here you go, take a look at these, it's pretty clear that God is the God of Christ Jesus, but most Trinitarians seem to just bypass all the following verses.

Spoiler

John 7:16

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

John 5:30

*I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

2 Thessalonians 2

Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given*us*everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,*Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

It is not mine to grant but is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.(Matthew 20:20-23 KJV)

1 Corinthians 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?(Matthew 26:39 & 27:46 KJV)

Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me, not by my will, but thy will.(Luke 22:42 KJV)

Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.(Luke 23:46 KJV)

Father, the hour is come; glorify your Son - as you have given him power over all flesh

John continues:

John 17:3 kjv

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. (John 5:19 KJV)

I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me bears witness of me. (John 8:18 KJV).

Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father…I ascend unto my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.”(John 20:17 KJV)

I go unto the Father, for my Father is greater than I.”(John 14:28 KJV)

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.(John 5-30)

Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God(Mark 10:17-18 KJV)

And that is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, but to us there is but one God, the Father of whom are all things and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things and we by him. (1 Corinthians 8:4-6 KJV)

But I would have you know that the head of every man in Christ and the head of the woman is the man and the head of Christ is God. (1 Corinthians 11:3).

For there is one God and one mediator between God and man,the man Christ Jesus.(1 Timothy 2:5 KJV)

Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort. (2Corinthians 1:3 KJV)

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with*him, that we may be also glorified together(Romans 8)

1 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope; 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ (rev 12)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 1:3 KJV)

1 Peter 3

Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.(Hebrews 10)

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh,that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent..I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Ephesians 1

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him

Revelation 1

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him

Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.(Hebrews 1:9)

Revelation 3

Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God and I will write upon him my new name..He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.(Ephesians 4:6 KJV)

Spoiler

If of interest: http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_jesus_having_a_god.htm

 

[marhig]

So, you, would not have applied the blood to the doorposts of your house then either and would have allowed death to come into your house . Got it.

The blood of Christ is on my doorposts!

Anyway, I don't believe as you so and we've been over this many times! So there's no point in going over it all again!

 

[lifeisgood]

God didn't come as a man, he came in a man he was in his fullness in Christ Jesus bodily. Jesus was in the express image of God, but he isn't God

If for you Jesus is not God, you have no Savior, for only God can save.
Even if the Catholic Church says otherwise.

 

[Right Divider]

gt, one more time, when a verse is simply plucked out of its original context all that is being parroted is a pretext.

GT is completely illogical and impossible to actually have communication with.

Here is an example of GT's fallacious reasoning:

• Jesus is called the Savior
• Jesus is also called the Messiah
• Therefore, Savior and Messiah mean exactly the same thing.

You can't possibly dialog with someone that things this wrongly.

 

[marhig]

If for you Jesus is not God, you have no Savior, for only God can save.
Even if the Catholic Church says otherwise.

God was saving through Christ by his word, as I said we don't agree on this. You only see death, I see life!