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Things that are different are not the same that includes God and Jesus Christ.

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  • Things that are different are not the same that includes God and Jesus Christ.

    Since God is the Father of the lord Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is not the Father, they are not the same. Jesus Christ is the son of God

    The scriptural description of Jesus Christ, "son of God" does not carry the same meaning as "God". No more than "son of David" carry the same meaning as "David"

    Since God and Jesus are different, they are not the same.

    John 3:16 is one of many verses that clearly distinguish between God and His son.
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

  • #2
    [QUOTE=oatmeal;4582280]
    Since God is the Father of the lord Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is not the Father, they are not the same. Jesus Christ is the son of God
    So what?

    The scriptural description of Jesus Christ, "son of God" does not carry the same meaning as "God". No more than "son of David" carry the same meaning as "David"
    But He is the son, isn't He? And if he learns the ways of His Father will he not qualified to do the business of his father when the day comes his Father hands him his Throne?

    Since God and Jesus are different, they are not the same.
    What makes them different if they are one in the life they exhibit? Would you be different from your father if you performed your life as he performed his? . . .in union with his?

    John 3:16 is one of many verses that clearly distinguish between God and His son.
    Again, so what?
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by oatmeal View Post
      The scriptural description of Jesus Christ, "son of God" does not carry the same meaning as "God".
      Do humans give birth to other humans or to some other kind of creature?

      Jesus was born of the Spirit as the image of the invisible God.

      Comment


      • #4
        What did Jesus mean when he said, "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bradley D View Post
          What did Jesus mean when he said, "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).
          Because of the reaction by the Jews, it's clear that by saying that He and the Father are one, He was declaring that He, as a man, is also GOD.....and not just a god, but the GOD of Israel.

          By Christ's use of the word 'hen'-one neuter, and not 'heis'- one masculine, He is not saying that He and the Father are one 'person', but one in essence, nature or being.

          Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
          Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
          Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
          Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.


          The Pharisees had earlier accused Jesus of making himself equal with God in John 5:18.

          Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.


          Christ then affirms that He is declaring that very thing when He then says that He gives life to the dead just as the Father does and that all men should honor Him just as much as they would honor the Father.
          This is clearly claiming equality with GOD.
          I don't know how anyone could miss it. The Jews certainly didn't.

          Joh 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
          Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
          Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
          Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
          Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by steko View Post
            Because of the reaction by the Jews, it's clear that by saying that He and the Father are one, He was declaring that He, as a man, is also GOD.....and not just a god, but the GOD of Israel.

            By Christ's use of the word 'hen'-one neuter, and not 'heis'- one masculine, He is not saying that He and the Father are one 'person', but one in essence, nature or being.

            Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
            Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
            Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
            Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.


            The Pharisees had earlier accused Jesus of making himself equal with God in John 5:18.

            Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.


            Christ then affirms that He is declaring that very thing when He then says that He gives life to the dead just as the Father does and that all men should honor Him just as much as they would honor the Father.
            This is clearly claiming equality with GOD.
            I don't know how anyone could miss it. The Jews certainly didn't.

            Joh 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
            Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
            Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

            We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
            They already know monsters exist.
            We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by steko View Post
              Because of the reaction by the Jews, it's clear that by saying that He and the Father are one, He was declaring that He, as a man, is also GOD.....and not just a god, but the GOD of Israel.

              By Christ's use of the word 'hen'-one neuter, and not 'heis'- one masculine, He is not saying that He and the Father are one 'person', but one in essence, nature or being.
              Jesus did not say He was one in essence, nature and being.

              You deny the man Jesus. and rob the LORD of His praise and Glory in raising up a man to become the theos of the new creation.

              LA
              My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
                Jesus did not say He was one in essence, nature and being.

                You deny the man Jesus. and rob the LORD of His praise and Glory in raising up a man to become the theos of the new creation.

                LA
                Stick to your death predictions and leave the heavy lifting
                to those who know what they're talking about.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by steko View Post
                  Because of the reaction by the Jews, it's clear that by saying that He and the Father are one, He was declaring that He, as a man, is also GOD.....and not just a god, but the GOD of Israel.

                  By Christ's use of the word 'hen'-one neuter, and not 'heis'- one masculine, He is not saying that He and the Father are one 'person', but one in essence, nature or being.

                  Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
                  Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
                  Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
                  Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.


                  The Pharisees had earlier accused Jesus of making himself equal with God in John 5:18.

                  Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.


                  Christ then affirms that He is declaring that very thing when He then says that He gives life to the dead just as the Father does and that all men should honor Him just as much as they would honor the Father.
                  This is clearly claiming equality with GOD.
                  I don't know how anyone could miss it. The Jews certainly didn't.

                  Joh 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
                  Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
                  Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
                  Good post Steko

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
                    Stick to your death predictions and leave the heavy lifting
                    to those who know what they're talking about.
                    Fool.
                    My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
                      Fool.
                      That was not unexpected.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
                        Jesus did not say He was one in essence, nature and being.

                        You deny the man Jesus. and rob the LORD of His praise and Glory in raising up a man to become the theos of the new creation.

                        LA

                        If I say I was was conceived sinless and indwelt by the Divine Life of the Holy Spirit, what else can make me and my Father equal except His will being mine?

                        Now, let that same reasoning be for the those new born from above that Jesus spoke of to Nicodemus which gives understanding to John 3:3-5 KJV.
                        "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [QUOTE=Cross Reference;4582284]
                          Originally posted by oatmeal View Post

                          So what?



                          But He is the son, isn't He? And if he learns the ways of His Father will he not qualified to do the business of his father when the day comes his Father hands him his Throne?



                          What makes them different if they are one in the life they exhibit? Would you be different from your father if you performed your life as he performed his? . . .in union with his?



                          Again, so what?
                          So what? Good question.

                          Since God and Jesus are different, they are not the same.

                          Therefore:

                          God is not Jesus and Jesus is not God.

                          Therefore:

                          Doctrines, like the trinity, that teach that the two are the same are in error.

                          Therefore:

                          Doctrines like the trinity or those that teach that Jesus is God should be abandoned so that truth, instead of of error is taught by believers

                          But He is the son, isn't He? And if he learns the ways of His Father will he not qualified to do the business of his father when the day comes his Father hands him his Throne?
                          Since Jesus Christ had to learn, but God is all knowing, again, they are different, therefore they are not the same.

                          Therefore Jesus Christ is not God and God is not Jesus Christ.

                          Since believers are sons of God, we should likewise learn the ways of our Father and imitate His ways. I John 3:1-2, Romans 8:14, Ephesians 5:1

                          Even if I did all my Father's will, that would mean, as Jesus Christ clearly declared, that he did not do his own will, but the Father's.

                          Thus the Father's will is clearly different than the son's will, therefore God is not Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is not God.

                          When you have really thought about that, you will open up floodgates of understanding of what it means to be a son of God, and you will begin to truly appreciate the life and accomplishments of Jesus Christ, a man, the son of God.

                          What Jesus Christ did is incredible because he is a man, not God.
                          "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                          "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                          Pro scripture = Protestant

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jamie View Post
                            Do humans give birth to other humans or to some other kind of creature?

                            Jesus was born of the Spirit as the image of the invisible God.
                            Where does scripture say that?

                            Maybe you have verses, maybe you don't, but without them, all you offer is more opinion.

                            Therefore I have no reason to believe you.
                            "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                            "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                            Pro scripture = Protestant

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bradley D View Post
                              What did Jesus mean when he said, "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).
                              Have you read the context?

                              I will supply it for you to examine.

                              25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

                              26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

                              27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

                              28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

                              29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

                              30 I and my Father are one.

                              31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

                              32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

                              33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

                              34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

                              35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

                              36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

                              What was Jesus doing all his life?

                              Luke 2:49

                              And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

                              Was he doing his own business?

                              Or, was he doing his Father's business?

                              Why didn't he do his own business?

                              If he was God he would have not had to abandon his own will in order to do the Father's will.

                              Since his will was different from his Father's will and Jesus chose to honor his Father and mother, he did the Father's will not his own.

                              God's will is superior to Jesus' will. Jesus Christ was and is subordinate to his Father.

                              (And so should we be.)

                              They are different and will always be different
                              "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                              "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                              Pro scripture = Protestant

                              Comment

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