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  • Elia
    replied
    Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Yachad is one of unity. Echad means one of plurality.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app
    Bs"d

    "Echad" means "one", and not "one of plurality".

    If you think different, please show me a dictionary that translates "echad" as "one of plurality".

    And, by the way: And of course, Christianity must not forget that they not only have the battle with the Hebrew word 'echad', but also with the Greek word 'eis', also meaning one. In Mark 12:28-34 Jesus has a discussion with a scribe. The scribe asks Jesus what is the first (that is here 'most important', not first in order, because many commandments were given earlier) commandment, and Jesus answers: "Hear Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one." Here Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 6:4. That is in the Greek: 'Kurios' (Lord) 'eis' (one) 'estin' (is). When he said this to the scribe the scribe answers him: "You are right teacher; you have truly said that he is one (eis), and there is no other then he." Upon this answers Jesus: "You are not far from the kingdom of God." So basically everybody agrees that God is one, except for the Christians. Therefore; the Christians must not only twist, deform, and corrupt the meaning of 'echad', meaning one, into three, but also the Greek word 'eis'. The question is of course: How often can you pull stunts like that, and still have some credibility left?

    So please give me also a Greek dictionary which translates "eis" as "one of plurality".

    Leave a comment:


  • Elia
    replied
    Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Elia did you even bother to read what I wrote above?

    Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app
    Bs"d

    Judgerightly, did you bother to read that the Bible teaches that God is one?

    Leave a comment:


  • JudgeRightly
    replied
    Originally posted by Elia View Post
    Bs"d

    And what is your problem with that?

    "Echad" means "one", and "yachad" and "bad" don't mean "one".
    Yachad is one of unity. Echad means one of plurality.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app

    Leave a comment:


  • Caino
    replied
    "One" spirit united in divinity with his divine offspring.

    Leave a comment:


  • Elia
    replied
    Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Elia, did you not read what I said above? Everywhere in the Bible in the Hebrew, where it says God is 'one,' the word echad is used, not yachad or bad.
    Bs"d

    And what is your problem with that?

    "Echad" means "one", and "yachad" and "bad" don't mean "one".

    Leave a comment:


  • JudgeRightly
    replied
    Originally posted by Elia View Post
    Bs"d


    שמע ישראל ×™-×”-ו-×” אלה×*ו ×™-×”-ו-×” אחד


    Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is
    ONE.

    And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
    And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
    and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
    And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
    And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
    Deut 6:4-9

    The Jews until this day fulfill this commandment. Every morning they put upon their arm and upon their forehead their phylacteries, (prayer belts) that consist of black straps with black leather cubes, that contain parchment upon which is written this Biblical text that says that God is one. Upon the doorposts of the houses of the religious Jews there are small boxes or containers that also contain parchment upon which is written that God is one. During the morning and evening prayers the above text is recited which says that God is one.

    Y-H-W-H, the one and only God who is one.

    Beside Him there is no God, no Buddha, no Christ, no David Koresh; NOBODY.

    Whoever worships anything or anybody else than Y-H-W-H is an IDOL WORSHIPPER.
    Elia, did you not read what I said above? Everywhere in the Bible in the Hebrew, where it says God is 'one,' the word echad is used, not yachad or bad.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app

    Leave a comment:


  • Elia
    replied
    Bs"d


    שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד


    Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is
    ONE.

    And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
    And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
    and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
    And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
    And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
    Deut 6:4-9

    The Jews until this day fulfill this commandment. Every morning they put upon their arm and upon their forehead their phylacteries, (prayer belts) that consist of black straps with black leather cubes, that contain parchment upon which is written this Biblical text that says that God is one. Upon the doorposts of the houses of the religious Jews there are small boxes or containers that also contain parchment upon which is written that God is one. During the morning and evening prayers the above text is recited which says that God is one.

    Y-H-W-H, the one and only God who is one.

    Beside Him there is no God, no Buddha, no Christ, no David Koresh; NOBODY.

    Whoever worships anything or anybody else than Y-H-W-H is an IDOL WORSHIPPER.

    Leave a comment:


  • iamaberean
    replied
    Originally posted by chrysostom View Post
    how do you explain

    Let us make man in our image

    in gen 1:26
    אלהים
    'ĕlôhı̂ym
    el-o-heem'
    Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

    The Hebrew word 'ĕlôhı̂ym, unless qualified, is plural, so God was speaking either to himself or to the other spirits (angels) with him.

    Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
    When man was created the scripture is clear that God, not the other gods, alone was the creator.

    Leave a comment:


  • JudgeRightly
    replied
    Originally posted by Elia View Post
    Bs"d

    I have news for you:

    ALSO THE NT SAYS THAT GOD IS ONE!!

    "Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4

    "Listen, Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One" Holman Christian Standard Bible

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." English Standard Version

    "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" New American Standard Bible

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." New International Version

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!" New King James Version"





    "And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the first of all?" Jesus answered, "The first is, `Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, THE LORD IS ONE; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that HE IS ONE, and there is no other but he; and to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."" Mark 12:28-34 Revised Standard Version

    “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version

    "Here is the most important one. Moses said, 'Israel, listen to me. The Lord is our God. The Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one." New International Readers Version

    "Jesus answered: Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One." .... "You have correctly said that He is One," Holman Christian Standard Bible

    "Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one:" .... "thou hast well said that he is one;" American Standard Version

    "Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one." New King James Version

    "Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one" .... "You have truly said that he is one," English Standard Version

    "Jesus said, "The first in importance is, 'Listen, Israel: The Lord your God is one;" .... "A wonderful answer, Teacher! So lucid and accurate—that God is one" The Message

    "‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... “You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version





    "Now an intermediary implies more than one; but GOD IS ONE." Gal 3:20 Revised Standard Version

    "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but GOD IS ONE" King James Version

    "A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but GOD IS ONE." New International Version

    "Now an intermediary implies more than one, but GOD IS ONE." English Standard Version

    "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one; but GOD IS ONE." American Standard Version

    "and the mediator is not of one, and GOD IS ONE" Youngs Literal Translation





    "You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." James 2:19 Revised Standard Version

    "thou -- thou dost believe that GOD IS ONE; thou dost well," Youngs Literal translation

    "Thou believest that GOD IS ONE; thou doest well:" American Standard Version

    "You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Holman Christian Standard Bible.

    "*Thou* believest that GOD IS ONE. Thou doest well." Darby Translation.

    "It’s good that you believe that GOD IS ONE." Common English Bible

    "You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." English Standard Version

    "You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Amplified Bible

    "You believe that GOD IS ONE You do well;" New American Standard Bible



    So the Bible teaches clearly that God is ONE.



    "And J-e-h-o-v-a-h shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall J-e-h-o-v-a-h be one, and his name one." Zach 14:9 American Standard Version

    "And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be— “The LORD is one, And His name one." New King James Version

    "And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one." English Standard Version

    "And the Lord shall be King over all the earth; in that day the Lord shall be one [in the recognition and worship of men] and His name one." Amplified Bible
    Elia did you even bother to read what I wrote above?

    Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app

    Leave a comment:


  • beameup
    replied
    Originally posted by Elia View Post
    Bs"d
    Draw near to me, [also this is Isaiah speaking; a fysical human being can not draw near to God] hear this
    Perhaps you can tell us who it was that Moses "drew near" to and spoke
    to Moses from the burning bush, and on the mountain?

    Then Moses and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up, and they saw the God of Israel. There was under his feet as it were a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness. And He did not lay his hand on the chief men of the people of Israel; they beheld God, and ate and drank. - Exodus 24:9-11

    Leave a comment:


  • Elia
    replied
    Originally posted by beameup View Post
    Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
    from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
    Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

    Isaiah 48:16-17
    Bs"d



    >> Who are the three divine personalities Isaiah 48:11-18 (Yeshaiah Hanavi) speaks about? "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last. (Only God is eternal.) My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens (the Creator is speaking)-, . . . And now the Sovereign Lord (one divine
    personality) has sent me (the speaker is eternal and the Creator, and therefore a second divine personality), with his Spirit (a third divine personality).

    ## The writer here conveniently leaves out the key passage that explains this verse, he gives there '……'
    Here is the whole passage: "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last. My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens,Assemble all of you and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD (in the Hebrew Y-H-W-H) loves him, he shall perform his purpose on Babylon, and His arm shall be against the Chaldeans. I, even I have spoken and called him, I have brought him, and he will prosper in his way. Draw near to me, hear this; from the beginning I have not spoken in secret from the time it came o be I have been there. And now my lord (adoni) LORD (Y-H-W-H) has sent me with his Spirit. Thus says the LORD (Y-H-W-H) your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, …

    Here is my comment:

    "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last. My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens, [this is God speaking] Assemble all of you and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD (in the Hebrew Y-H-W-H) loves him, he [here is the part left out by the other guy. Here is spoken ABOUT God, in the third person, that means that here already is not God speaking, but somebody else (Isaiah) ABOUT God] shall perform his purpose on Babylon, and His [again third person] arm shall be against the Chaldeans. I, even I have spoken and called him, I have brought him, and he will prosper in his way. Draw near to me, [also this is Isaiah speaking; a fysical human being can not draw near to God] hear this; from the beginning I have not spoken in secret from the time it came to be [this speaks about the decree against Sancherib] I have been there. And now my lord (adoni) LORD (Y-H-W-H) has sent me [the me is Isaiah] with his Spirit. [the spirit of God is the power of God, that makes Isaiah a prophet. It is not a separate God] Thus says the LORD (Y-H-W-H) [again in the third person, not God is speaking here but Isaiah] your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, …"

    1)LORD GOD (YHWH-YHWH)


    That is Y-H-W-H God.

    2)Spirit (ruach 'elohim)
    That is the power of God.

    3)Israel's Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel ("I AM" that led you out of Egyptian bondage)
    Who is the Holy One of Israel?

    "For thus says Y-H-W-H God, the Holy One of Israel: In returning and rest you shall be saved;"
    Isaiah 30:15

    "For I am Y-H-W-H your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I gave Egypt for your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in your place."
    Isaiah 43:3

    "Thus says Y-H-W-H, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: “For your sake I will send to Babylon, And bring them all down as fugitives —The Chaldeans, who rejoice in their ships."
    Isaiah 43:14

    "I am Y-H-W-H, your Holy One, The Creator of Israel, your King.”
    Isaiah 43:15

    "And it shall come to pass in that day That the remnant of Israel, And such as have escaped of the house of Jacob, Will never again depend on him who defeated them, But will depend on Y-H-W-H, the Holy One of Israel, in truth."
    Isaiah 10:20

    The Holy One of Israel is Y-H-W-H.

    So there are no three persons there, only Y-H-W-H.

    There is no god besides Him.

    “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no god.
    Isaiah 44:6

    Leave a comment:


  • Elia
    replied
    Originally posted by jsanford108 View Post
    The issue here, Elia, is that you keep saying "the Bible" says God is one. But "the Bible" includes the NT. not just the OT. Therefore, if you discredit the NT, then your proofs and arguments cannot rely on phrases such as "it's in the Bible, it says it all, etc." If you rely solely on the Pentateuch, then your arguments are slightly more sounds. But if they are derived from the Bible as a whole, your arguments are like houses built on sand.

    Basically, you need to establish your basis of proof (Bible vs Pentateuch/Torah), and maintain a clear vocabulary. Interchanging terms and definitions in order to make them fit your points is a partial fallacy.
    Bs"d

    I have news for you:

    ALSO THE NT SAYS THAT GOD IS ONE!!

    "Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4

    "Listen, Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One" Holman Christian Standard Bible

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." English Standard Version

    "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" New American Standard Bible

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." New International Version

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!" New King James Version"





    "And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the first of all?" Jesus answered, "The first is, `Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, THE LORD IS ONE; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that HE IS ONE, and there is no other but he; and to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."" Mark 12:28-34 Revised Standard Version

    “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version

    "Here is the most important one. Moses said, 'Israel, listen to me. The Lord is our God. The Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one." New International Readers Version

    "Jesus answered: Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One." .... "You have correctly said that He is One," Holman Christian Standard Bible

    "Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one:" .... "thou hast well said that he is one;" American Standard Version

    "Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one." New King James Version

    "Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one" .... "You have truly said that he is one," English Standard Version

    "Jesus said, "The first in importance is, 'Listen, Israel: The Lord your God is one;" .... "A wonderful answer, Teacher! So lucid and accurate—that God is one" The Message

    "‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... “You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version





    "Now an intermediary implies more than one; but GOD IS ONE." Gal 3:20 Revised Standard Version

    "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but GOD IS ONE" King James Version

    "A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but GOD IS ONE." New International Version

    "Now an intermediary implies more than one, but GOD IS ONE." English Standard Version

    "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one; but GOD IS ONE." American Standard Version

    "and the mediator is not of one, and GOD IS ONE" Youngs Literal Translation





    "You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." James 2:19 Revised Standard Version

    "thou -- thou dost believe that GOD IS ONE; thou dost well," Youngs Literal translation

    "Thou believest that GOD IS ONE; thou doest well:" American Standard Version

    "You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Holman Christian Standard Bible.

    "*Thou* believest that GOD IS ONE. Thou doest well." Darby Translation.

    "It’s good that you believe that GOD IS ONE." Common English Bible

    "You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." English Standard Version

    "You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Amplified Bible

    "You believe that GOD IS ONE You do well;" New American Standard Bible



    So the Bible teaches clearly that God is ONE.



    "And J-e-h-o-v-a-h shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall J-e-h-o-v-a-h be one, and his name one." Zach 14:9 American Standard Version

    "And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be— “The LORD is one, And His name one." New King James Version

    "And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one." English Standard Version

    "And the Lord shall be King over all the earth; in that day the Lord shall be one [in the recognition and worship of men] and His name one." Amplified Bible

    Leave a comment:


  • beameup
    replied
    Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
    from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
    Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

    Isaiah 48:16-17

    1)LORD GOD (YHWH-YHWH)
    2)Spirit (ruach 'elohim)
    3)Israel's Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel ("I AM" that led you out of Egyptian bondage)

    Leave a comment:


  • jsanford108
    replied
    The issue here, Elia, is that you keep saying "the Bible" says God is one. But "the Bible" includes the NT. not just the OT. Therefore, if you discredit the NT, then your proofs and arguments cannot rely on phrases such as "it's in the Bible, it says it all, etc." If you rely solely on the Pentateuch, then your arguments are slightly more sounds. But if they are derived from the Bible as a whole, your arguments are like houses built on sand.

    Basically, you need to establish your basis of proof (Bible vs Pentateuch/Torah), and maintain a clear vocabulary. Interchanging terms and definitions in order to make them fit your points is a partial fallacy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tambora
    replied
    Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Every single place in the Old Testament where God is described as "one," the word echad is used, not yachad or bad. If God was singular, then the other two would be used. But God is one . . . of plurality. He is one God, manifested in three Persons.



    Sure it can. Here's a few examples found in Scripture where echad is used for the plural 'one':
    - the people are one
    - the dreams of pharaoh are one
    - the people answered with one voice
    - and they shall become one flesh



    So you're saying Jesus was a lunatic, or at best, a liar? SHAME ON YOU.
    new.kgov.com/diety
    new.kgov.com/three



    The Bible teaches that God is a triune God, that He is 'one' of plurality.



    "Baptising them in the name (singular) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
    Seems to me that that name is describing 3 persons.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app

    Leave a comment:

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