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Works Required for Salvation Under the Gospel of the Kingdom?

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  • Works Required for Salvation Under the Gospel of the Kingdom?

    Paul Sadler, perhaps the top spokesmen in the Neo-MAD community as well as the president of the Berean Bible Society, teaches that under the gospel of the kingdom works were required for salvation:
    "We should add that the gospel of the circumcision and the gospel of the kingdom are inseparably bound together. Both are based upon a 'performance system. 'It is this program and message that James was laboring under when he wrote his epistle...How often James must have heard one of his countrymen say, 'I believe in God.' But James observed that there were no fruits in his life that substantiated his claim, which was essential under the gospel of the circumcision" [emphasis added] (Sadler, "Studies in the Epistle of James," The Berean Searchlight, January, 2006, p.8-9).

    Sadler continues, writing that "According to James, Abraham served as a 'pattern' to the circumcision that faith and works were 'required' for salvation under their program" [emphasis added] (Ibid., p.10).

    Of course Sadler said nothing about this verse from the pen of James which demonstrates that those who received his epistle were born of God by the "word of truth":
    "He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:18).

    Stadler also failed to mention this verse which teaches the exact same thing as James:
    "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).

    Sadler also gave no reason why we shouldn't believe what is written here, words that prove that only faith is necessary for salvation:
    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).

    Now let's see if any of those in the Neo-Mad camp will address any of these three verses which I quoted.
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; July 31st, 2015, 02:47 PM.

  • #2
    Hi Jerry,
    Interesting post. Interesting way to look at things if that is how some are looking at it.

    Some Early Gentile Christians went to great lengths to baptize. They baptized themselves, their babies, and then also themselves again for those they loved who died before those could be baptized.

    A lot of people call that a work, right?
    But what it was really - was a complete belief in what they could understand the NT was saying.
    They believed.
    Today we are not so believing.

    But I do not know if today's reason shows those of the past as worse than we are or the other way around...

    Paul is full of instruction, but he does try to get Believers grounded in Christ. He tells them about grace. But aside from that he totally bosses them around!

    Ask these today why the ones before them were chosen and they may come out with some weird stuff, yes?
    Because how can anyone today understand grace for what it really is? Can't we say today God's good pleasure is probably related to unmerited choosing?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
      Paul Sadler, perhaps the top spokesmen in the Neo-MAD community as well as the president of the Berean Bible Society, teaches that under the gospel of the kingdom works were required for salvation:
      "We should add that the gospel of the circumcision and the gospel of the kingdom are inseparably bound together. Both are based upon a 'performance system. 'It is this program and message that James was laboring under when he wrote his epistle...How often James must have heard one of his countrymen say, 'I believe in God.' But James observed that there were no fruits in his life that substantiated his claim, which was essential under the gospel of the circumcision" [emphasis added] (Sadler, "Studies in the Epistle of James," The Berean Searchlight, January, 2006, p.8-9).

      Sadler continues, writing that "According to James, Abraham served as a 'pattern' to the circumcision that faith and works were 'required' for salvation under their program" [emphasis added] (Ibid., p.10).

      Of course Sadler said nothing about this verse from the pen of James which demonstrates that those who received his epistle were born of God by the "word of truth":
      "He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:18).

      Stadler also failed to mention this verse which teaches the exact same thing as James:
      "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).

      Sadler also gave no reason why we shouldn't believe what is written here, words that prove that only faith is necessary for salvation:
      "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).

      Now let's see if any of those in the Neo-Mad camp will address any of these three verses which I quoted.

      The book of James is one of the first books that was written in the New Testament.

      Many had a problem with Paul's message that we are justified by faith without the works of the law, Romans 4:2. James was one of them.

      James sent men to spy on Peter and Barnabas to see if they were eating with Gentiles. The law prohibits Jews from eating with Gentiles, Galatians 2:11, 12, 13, 14.

      Paul had to explain to them that justification was not by the law, Galatians 2:15, 16, 17, 18.

      And then in Acts 15:1, 2. It appears that James who was the head of the church in Jerusalem, wanted to circumcise some Gentile believers that Paul wanted to introduce to the church there.

      I am sure that at a later date James came into a better understanding of the Gospel and justification by faith without the works of the law.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Robert Pate View Post
        The book of James is one of the first books that was written in the New Testament.

        Many had a problem with Paul's message that we are justified by faith without the works of the law, Romans 4:2. James was one of them.

        James sent men to spy on Peter and Barnabas to see if they were eating with Gentiles. The law prohibits Jews from eating with Gentiles, Galatians 2:11, 12, 13, 14.

        Paul had to explain to them that justification was not by the law, Galatians 2:15, 16, 17, 18.

        And then in Acts 15:1, 2. It appears that James who was the head of the church in Jerusalem, wanted to circumcise some Gentile believers that Paul wanted to introduce to the church there.

        I am sure that at a later date James came into a better understanding of the Gospel and justification by faith without the works of the law.
        Hello my friend Robert,
        How are you?
        I tried to remind Interplanner there is what we think and what we know -and these two are not the same. Robert - surely most everything above that you put is what you think, right? We cannot know because unless we are told or we were there then certain things can't be known. But we certainly do think certain things, right?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Robert Pate View Post
          I am sure that at a later date James came into a better understanding of the Gospel and justification by faith without the works of the law.
          So do believe that these words written by James speak of justification by faith apart from the law?:
          "He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:18).

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
            So do believe that these words written by James speak of justification by faith apart from the law?:
            "He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:18).

            I am not sure what James meant. James appears to introduce works into justification, James 2:14.

            We are born again by hearing and believing the Gospel. The "Word of truth" is the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23.

            The word "Firstfruits" is also found in other parts of the New Testament. I believe that it means that we who are Christians are the first of God's new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rainee View Post
              Hello my friend Robert,
              How are you?
              I tried to remind Interplanner there is what we think and what we know -and these two are not the same. Robert - surely most everything above that you put is what you think, right? We cannot know because unless we are told or we were there then certain things can't be known. But we certainly do think certain things, right?

              The reason that God gave us the Bible is so that we can know that what we think is correct if it is according to the scriptures.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Robert Pate View Post
                I am not sure what James meant. James appears to introduce works into justification, James 2:14..
                I can only conclude that at 1:18 James was teaching that a person is born of God by faith only. There is no mention of works there.

                In the second chapter James was obviously talking about what one person can know about another person's faith:
                "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works" (Jas.2:18).

                So when James says that faith without works is dead he was saying that if a man does not exhibit works before men then as far as those men can see his faith is nonexistent or dead.

                Sir Robert Anderson wrote the following:
                "Paul's Epistle (Romans) unfolds the mind and purposes of God, revealing His righteousness and wrath. The Epistle of James addresses men upon their own ground. The one deals with justification as between the sinner and God, the other as between man and man. In the one, therefore, the word is, 'To him that worketh not, but believeth'. In the other it is, 'What is the profit if a man say he hath faith, and have not works?' Not 'If a man have faith', but 'If a man say he hath faith' proving that, in the case supposed, the individual is not dealing with God, but arguing the matter with his brethren. God, who searches the heart, does not need to judge by works, which are but the outward manifestation of faith within; but man can judge only by appearances...He (Abraham) was justified by faith when judged by God, for God knows the heart. He was justified by works when judged by his fellow men, for man can only read the life " [emphasis added] (Anderson, The Gospel and Its Ministry, [Kregel Publications, 1978], pp.160-161).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                  I can only conclude that at 1:18 James was teaching that a person is born of God by faith only. There is no mention of works there.

                  In the second chapter James was obviously talking about what one person can know about another person's faith:
                  "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works" (Jas.2:18).

                  So when James says that faith without works is dead he was saying that if a man does not exhibit works before men then as far as those men can see his faith is nonexistent or dead.

                  Sir Robert Anderson wrote the following:
                  "Paul's Epistle (Romans) unfolds the mind and purposes of God, revealing His righteousness and wrath. The Epistle of James addresses men upon their own ground. The one deals with justification as between the sinner and God, the other as between man and man. In the one, therefore, the word is, 'To him that worketh not, but believeth'. In the other it is, 'What is the profit if a man say he hath faith, and have not works?' Not 'If a man have faith', but 'If a man say he hath faith' proving that, in the case supposed, the individual is not dealing with God, but arguing the matter with his brethren. God, who searches the heart, does not need to judge by works, which are but the outward manifestation of faith within; but man can judge only by appearances...He (Abraham) was justified by faith when judged by God, for God knows the heart. He was justified by works when judged by his fellow men, for man can only read the life " [emphasis added] (Anderson, The Gospel and Its Ministry, [Kregel Publications, 1978], pp.160-161).

                  Works are not an indication of faith. There are multitudes that are trying to be justified by their works, mainly Catholics.

                  All that have come to Christ as repentant sinners have been blessed with the Holy Spirit. One of the works of the Spirit is to make us witnesses for Christ and his Gospel.

                  I personally believe that Christian works are the result of the Holy Spirit.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A person will produce works if they have faith, it is a practical truth in anything, not just with one's relationship with God.

                    The interpretation between 'faith alone' and 'faith and works' is often a very misunderstood one, as faith and works are in both. Faith alone proposes that a person does not have to be subject to the Pope. It is also intended to uphold predestination.

                    The oppositions have very little to do, exclusively, with faith or works. It's part of a bigger paradigm of the ordinance within Protestantism and Catholicism altogether.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cons&Spires View Post
                      A person will produce works if they have faith, it is a practical truth in anything, not just with one's relationship with God.

                      The interpretation between 'faith alone' and 'faith and works' is often a very misunderstood one, as faith and works are in both. Faith alone proposes that a person does not have to be subject to the Pope. It is also intended to uphold predestination.

                      The oppositions have very little to do, exclusively, with faith or works. It's part of a bigger paradigm of the ordinance within Protestantism and Catholicism altogether.

                      Saving faith is always faith in Christ and his Gospel.

                      Religious faith is faith in ones ability to please God by what they do.

                      One leads to eternal life. The other leads to eternal damnation.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Robert Pate View Post
                        James appears to introduce works into justification, James 2:14..
                        Do you think that James was in the will of God when, according to you, he introduced works into justification?
                        Last edited by Jerry Shugart; July 31st, 2015, 02:19 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Robert Pate View Post
                          Saving faith is always faith in Christ and his Gospel.

                          Religious faith is faith in ones ability to please God by what they do.

                          One leads to eternal life. The other leads to eternal damnation.
                          And what does the Bible propose on how to please God?

                          We simply have good will to our neighbors.. much of whom are going to Hell as far as what I can deduce from the scriptures.

                          Which makes our works hardly meaningful, it's in our own willingness- that's what God seeks.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cons&Spires View Post
                            And what does the Bible propose on how to please God?
                            "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent" (Jn.6:28-29).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                              Do you think that James was in the will of God when, according to you, he introduced works into justification?
                              And according to you and Anderson [and whatever other external writer you share your same "own notions" reasoning approach with, when it suits your various assertions] James did not.

                              Bad enough you are ever on this trip to prove everyone wrong and you alone as right; do you even know how to properly exegete any text?

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