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  • Originally posted by keypurr View Post
    Why?
    Because you don't know the difference between a contraction and a possessive pronoun.
    All of my ancestors are human.
    Originally posted by Squeaky
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Originally posted by God's Truth
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Comment


    • Remembering our Invisible Source......

      ~*~*~

      Remember this Christ-mas season,...it is better to have the living Christ born anew in the cradle of your heart, than have an assumed right 'Christology' about him, or to assume he is 'God Almighty', since it is only the spirit of God itself, that is LIFE. You can translate or interpret that as you will, but only the living Christ-principle, spirit and living vitality, as the 'logos' divine...is that which communicates the language and revelation of 'God' to the soul.

      What Christ communicates within is what is key, and it is naturally esoteric, allegorical and subjective. - if your 'Christology' actually affects a genuine good, transformation or betterment in your life, leading you Godward,...it will be useful.

      Merry Christ-mas all!


      ~*~*~


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      Our Real Nature
      freelight's cosmic cafe
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      ~*~*~
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      • Originally posted by Pierac View Post
        Isaiah 44:6 - "Thus says the LORD... there is no God but me."

        Isaiah 45:5 - "I am the LORD and there is no other, there is no God besides me."

        Isaiah 45:6 - "Men may know that there is none besides me. I am the LORD, there is no other."

        We all know that God the Son has a Father (God the Father). But the question that must be asked and answered is: can God the Son have a God? Every pastor that I have ever asked this question to has always said "Of course not!" But is that the answer given in Scripture? No, on the contrary. As you will see, the prophesied Messiah in the Old Testament is said to have a God. Then you will see that Jesus the Messiah fulfills those prophesies because he most definitely has a God. If you come to the conclusion that Jesus has a God, then it might be time to rethink and research the Doctrine of the Trinity. Because if God the Son has a God, then there are TWO GODS!

        To make this as simple as possible, I am not going to list the huge amount of Scriptures which have God (not "Father") and Jesus in the same sentence, or Scriptures that have God speaking to Jesus, or Jesus speaking to God. We will only be concerned with Scriptures that prove that Jesus has a God.



        OLD TESTAMENT MESSIANIC PROPHESIES

        Psalm 89:26-28 - "He (the Messiah) shall say of me. "You are my father, my God, my rock, my savior". And I will make him the firstborn."


        Micah 5:3-4 - "He (the Messiah) shall stand firm and shepherd his flock by the strength of the LORD, in the Majestic name of the LORD, his God."

        Psalm 22:10-11 - "To you I was committed at birth. From my mother’s womb you are my God."

        NEW TESTAMENT

        Jesus Speaking:

        John 20:17 - "I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."

        Matthew 27:46 - "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"

        Revelation 3:12 - "Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God."

        Revelation 3:2 - "for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God."

        Paul:

        Ephesians 1:3 - "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

        Ephesians 1:17 - "I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father..."

        2 Corinthians 1:3 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

        2 Corinthians 11:31 - "The God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ knows, He who is blessed forever, that I do not lie."

        Peter:

        1 Peter 1:3 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

        John:

        Revelation 1:6 - "To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, who has made us into a kingdom, priests for his God and Father."

        When one reads the preceding verses, there is one thing that is a fact. That Jesus Christ has a God. Jesus speaks of his God, Peter Paul and John mention the God of Jesus Christ.

        So why do we never hear a sermon or anything else on the God of Jesus Christ? The reason is that people who believe in the Trinity cannot explain this obvious fact. They have absolutely no explanation for it. They claim that God the Son cannot have a God because that would mean that there are two Gods. But there it is in black and white. Jesus has a God.

        "Now this is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ" (John 17:3). Jesus’ own words.



        Paul
        I have highlighted, in your post, every occurrence of each of the phrases, "have a God" and "has a God". Notice that not even once is either of those phrases to be found in any of the Scripture texts you've quoted. That, of course, is because those are your phrases, and not Scripture's. Scripture, of course, does not mean anything by those phrases, because Scripture does not use those phrases. But, unlike Scripture, you do use those phrases. So, if you imagine you actually mean something by your un-Scriptural phrases, "have a God" and "has a God", then feel free to try to tell us what you imagine you mean by them. Exactly what (if anything) would you say it is to "have a God"?
        All my ancestors are human.
        PS: All your ancestors are human.
        PPS: To all you cats, dogs, monkeys, and other assorted house pets whose masters are outsourcing the task of TOL post-writing to you (we know who you are )– you may disregard the PS.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by keypurr View Post


          He is the SON OF GOD, not God.
          I take it that, by the pronoun, 'he', you are referring to Jesus.

          And now, since, by the word 'God', you are referring to God the Father, this is what you are telling us:

          [Jesus] is the SON OF [GOD the Father]
          and

          [Jesus] is . . . not [God the Father]
          Every Trinitarian agrees with you that Jesus
          • is the Son of God the Father
          • is not God the Father
          So, then, what (if anything) was your point in saying "He is the SON OF GOD, not God"??? Why do you imagine you are somehow controverting Trinitarianism by saying "He is the SON OF GOD, not God"???

          You are, by the word, 'God', referring to God the Father, no? I mean, since you are an anti-Trinitarian, an unitarian, to whom would you be referring by the word 'God', if not to God the Father???
          All my ancestors are human.
          PS: All your ancestors are human.
          PPS: To all you cats, dogs, monkeys, and other assorted house pets whose masters are outsourcing the task of TOL post-writing to you (we know who you are )– you may disregard the PS.

          Comment


          • Anyone who denies the divinity of Jesus, denies the gospel itself! I mean, the whole point of the gospel is that God offered Himself as the payment for sin!
            If you deny that Jesus is the Creator become flesh then you may as well just rip the whole book of John right out of your bible because that's the theme of the entire book. That major point is the reason why there is a book of John.


            John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
            14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
            15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ”



            Now how much more blatant can any passage of the bible be? Anyone who denies the divine nature and eternal existence of He who became flesh, whom we call Jesus, is simply hostile to the word of God and to God Himself. The simple fact of the matter is that you don't get to disbelieve something God plainly states because you don't like it and still call yourself a believer. Disbelief is disbelief. If you deny that Jesus is He Who created all things, then you are simply an unbeliever and an enemy of the gospel.


            Zachariah 12:10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.



            Who is it that has the power to "pour out the Spirit of grace and supplication" but God Himself and Who was pierced but Jesus?


            Revelation1: 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, [d]the Beginning and the End,” says the [e]Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

            17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying [i]to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.


            Who is the the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, THE ALMIGHTY but God Himself and Who was dead and is now alive forevermore but Jesus?

            If the bible does not teach that Jesus is the incarnation of the Creator God Himself then it doesn't teach anything.


            I used to think that people who actively denied the Trinity were mostly just ignorant of the bible but this website has taught me otherwise. Nothing I've said here will persuade them because there is no persuading them. You can quote the bible until you're blue in the face and it doesn't move them an inch nor does any rational argument that anyone can make. They aren't interested in whether their doctrine is biblical or whether it even makes any sense. They are interested in denying the deity of Christ - period. That's what they want to do and that is their only goal. That is the Polaris of their doctrinal sky and the chief cornerstone of all their theology. It is their reason for living and nothing will move them off this hill they've chosen to die on until that day when they stand face to face with Him Who both created and died for them.
            sigpic
            "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Clete View Post
              If the bible does not teach that Jesus is the incarnation of the Creator God Himself then it doesn't teach anything..
              What does that statement say about your ability to understand what the Bible really teaches?

              Originally posted by Clete View Post
              I used to think that people who actively denied the Trinity were mostly just ignorant of the bible but this website has taught me otherwise. Nothing I've said here will persuade them because there is no persuading them. You can quote the bible until you're blue in the face and it doesn't move them an inch nor does any rational argument that anyone can make. They aren't interested in whether their doctrine is biblical or whether it even makes any sense. They are interested in denying the deity of Christ - period.
              There are many good Christians who believe in the deity of Christ and don't believe the Trinity doctrine.
              The reason you can't persuade them that the Bible teaches the Trinity is because the Bible doesn't teach the Trinity, the church teaches it.
              You can't come up with any rational argument to try to persuade them because the Trinity is not a rational doctrine, it is a doctrine of "faith".
              Learn to read what is written.

              _____
              The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
              ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

              Comment


              • Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                What does that statement say about your ability to understand what the Bible really teaches?
                It says that he understands what the Bible really teaches and you do not.

                Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                There are many good Christians who believe in the deity of Christ and don't believe the Trinity doctrine.
                That makes little to no sense. Please describe in detail this doctrine of the deity of Christ without the Trinity.

                Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                The reason you can't persuade them that the Bible teaches the Trinity is because the Bible doesn't teach the Trinity, the church teaches it.
                The Bible teaches it. That's why many churches do too.

                Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                You can't come up with any rational argument to try to persuade them because the Trinity is not a rational doctrine, it is a doctrine of "faith".
                The Bible repeatedly affirms the doctrine of the Trinity. That you cannot see or understand it is your own personal problem.


                All of my ancestors are human.
                Originally posted by Squeaky
                That explains why your an idiot.
                Originally posted by God's Truth
                Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                  It says that he understands what the Bible really teaches and you do not.
                  You have proven many times over the years that you do not understand what the Bible really teaches, so your endorsement means nothing.

                  Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                  The Bible teaches it. That's why many churches do too.
                  No, the Bible never teaches the Trinity, and the churches teach it despite the silence of scripture.

                  Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                  The Bible repeatedly affirms the doctrine of the Trinity.
                  All that means is that you have proof texts that you believe support your belief and you ignore all the evidence in the scriptures that contradict your belief.

                  Learn to read what is written.

                  _____
                  The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                  ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                    There are many good Christians who believe in the deity of Christ and don't believe the Trinity doctrine.
                    Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                    That makes little to no sense. Please describe in detail this doctrine of the deity of Christ without the Trinity.
                    How can the only begotten Son of God be anything except deity?

                    1 John 4:9
                    9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

                    Learn to read what is written.

                    _____
                    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                      How can the only begotten Son of God be anything except deity?

                      1 John 4:9
                      9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
                      John 1:1 New International Version (NIV)

                      The Word Became Flesh

                      1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

                      Acts 5:4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

                      4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not [a]under your control? Why is it that you have [b]conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

                      What more proof do you need?
                      He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                      Jim Elliot

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                        You have proven many times over the years that you do not understand what the Bible really teaches, so your endorsement means nothing.
                        You have proven many times over the years that you do not understand what the Bible really teaches, so your criticism means nothing.

                        Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                        No, the Bible never teaches the Trinity, and the churches teach it despite the silence of scripture.
                        Repeatedly... here is just one example (that you will, no doubt, not understand):

                        Mat 28:19 KJV Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

                        ONE NAME (authority) and THREE PERSONS. In other words, the FATHER, the SON and the HOLY GHOST all share the SAME AUTHORITY.

                        Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                        All that means is that you have proof texts that you believe support your belief and you ignore all the evidence in the scriptures that contradict your belief.
                        Why did you CUT out the part about this?
                        Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                        There are many good Christians who believe in the deity of Christ and don't believe the Trinity doctrine.
                        Please document this belief in "the deity of Christ" apart from the Trinity doctrine.

                        All of my ancestors are human.
                        Originally posted by Squeaky
                        That explains why your an idiot.
                        Originally posted by God's Truth
                        Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                        Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                        1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                        Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                          What more proof do you need?
                          The Bible was written for the Jews as if there are many gods but that Israel is to follow only YHWH as their God.
                          Even Paul teaches this way.


                          Monolatry in Christianity

                          Monolatry (Greek: μόνος [monos] = single, and λατρεία [latreia] = worship) is belief in the existence of many gods but with the consistent worship of only one deity.

                          Paul the Apostle, in his First Epistle to the Corinthians, writes that "we know that an idol is nothing" and "that there is none other God but one" (1 Corinthians 8:4-6). He argues in verse 5 that "for though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth", "but to us there is but one God". Paul distinguishes between gods that have no authority or have a lesser authority, "as there be gods many, and lords many", and the one God who has universal authority, "one God, the Father, of whom are all things" and "one Lord, Jesus Christ, of whom are all things". Some translators of verse 5, put the words "gods" and "lords" in quotes to indicate that they are gods or lords only so-called.

                          In his Second Epistle to the Corinthians, Paul refers to "the god of this world" (2 Corinthians 4:4), which the eighteenth-century theologian John Gill interpreted as a reference to Satan or the material things put before God, such as money, rather than acknowledging any separate deity from God.



                          Christians are taught to worship the Father as God and obey Jesus as Lord.
                          Learn to read what is written.

                          _____
                          The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                          ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                            Why did you CUT out the part about this?
                            It was important enough to put in its own post.

                            Learn to read what is written.

                            _____
                            The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                            ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                              Christians are taught to worship the Father as God and obey Jesus as Lord.
                              So you think that the God of the OT is not Lord?

                              Gen 2:4 KJV These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

                              This did nothing to address the belief in "the deity of Christ" apart from the Trinity doctrine.

                              All of my ancestors are human.
                              Originally posted by Squeaky
                              That explains why your an idiot.
                              Originally posted by God's Truth
                              Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                              Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                              (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                              1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                              (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                              Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                                What does that statement say about your ability to understand what the Bible really teaches?


                                There are many good Christians who believe in the deity of Christ and don't believe the Trinity doctrine.
                                The reason you can't persuade them that the Bible teaches the Trinity is because the Bible doesn't teach the Trinity, the church teaches it.
                                You can't come up with any rational argument to try to persuade them because the Trinity is not a rational doctrine, it is a doctrine of "faith".
                                Right, the trinity doctrine isn't the most accurate explanation, but there are three. Jesus is "deity", but not another deity. Jesus is God come in the flesh as a son. There is only one Spirit, and it is God's Spirit, and the Spirit is the Lord.

                                Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called;


                                That scripture also shows that there isn't one hope and calling for the Jews and another one for the Gentiles.


                                Jesus is the One speaking in the Old Testament, and the Bible calls that One God the Father.
                                Oh how I love the Word of God!

                                Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

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