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  • Originally posted by truthjourney View Post
    No it's not very clear that Jesus was born out fornication. That sounds like an accusation. I guess you think all accusations against God's servants are true and there are examples of accusations in the scriptures. Speaking of preconceived notions, it sounds like you have some. And I wasn't attacking.
    Oh! I am sorry TJ, I meant to say that's clear in the text, not in reality. If you ask me, Jesus was a legitimate son born out of the legal relationship between Joseph and Mary. But it is from John 8:41 that the version of the Roman soldier called Pantera came about.

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    • Originally posted by Shibolet View Post
      There we go! I hope Jamie has read this and is of the same opinion.

      Now SOC, you have given me material for a new and paradoxical question. If Jesus was from the line of Judah, he could not be son of God because God is not from the Tribe of Judah. On the other hand, if he was the son of God, he could not be the Messiah because the Messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah. Now, it is your turn. How do you harmonize this paradox? Thanks to you in advance.
      There is no paradox as what you said makes no sense. Firstly Jesus is the SON OF God. NOT God.
      Luke 3 shows Jesus genealogy. He came from & via the line of Judah hence why Jesus is called "The Lion that is of the tribe of Judah" in Revelation.

      The OT tells us in multiple places and prophecy's that this "King of Israel" (Jesus) would be from the line of Judah. Micah 5:2:-

      "And you, O Bethʹle·hem Ephʹra·thah,
      The one too little to be among the thousands of Judah,
      From you will come out for me the one to be ruler in Israel,
      Whose origin is from ancient times, from the days of long ago
      ."
      His genealogy is listed all there in Luke 3:23-38 or Matthew 1 take your pick.
      John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence".

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      • Originally posted by SonOfCaleb View Post
        There is no paradox as what you said makes no sense. Firstly Jesus is the SON OF God. NOT God.
        Luke 3 shows Jesus genealogy. He came from & via the line of Judah hence why Jesus is called "The Lion that is of the tribe of Judah" in Revelation.

        The OT tells us in multiple places and prophecy's that this "King of Israel" (Jesus) would be from the line of Judah. Micah 5:2:-

        His genealogy is listed all there in Luke 3:23-38 or Matthew 1 take your pick.
        As I expected, you do not know. I said "son of God" and not God. That's of your make perhaps to easy your answer but it only complicated further.
        My question remains as you have not answered it.

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        • Originally posted by Shibolet View Post
          As I expected, you do not know. I said "son of God" and not God. That's of your make perhaps to easy your answer but it only complicated further.
          My question remains as you have not answered it.
          I'm not entirely sure even you know what you mean as your logic is spurious. Here's what you said:-
          "If Jesus was from the line of Judah, he could not be son of God because God is not from the Tribe of Judah. On the other hand, if he was the son of God"
          Theres no if's, no but's. The scriptures tells us Jesus is the Son of God NOT God. Therefore your sentence:- "he could not be son of God because God" is fallacious. And thus your false premise has no basis in scripture. Therefore the paradox you seem to have conjured up seems to be largely a figment of your own imagination. As i provided you with two sources that show and prove Jesus lineage from Judah, as well as providing you with a passage from Micah that shows the Messiah would come via Judah which Jesus did as per Matthew & Luke.
          John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence".

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Simon Baker View Post

            I Detect Jealousy And Animosity Of Christians From You Benjamin, Or Is It ANY Non-Jew That You Dislike ? Are You Mad At God For Sending Jesus The Son Of God ? We Have Salvation, You Can Too !

            What Is The Opposite Of Anti-Semite ?
            I am not mad about any thing. I am just standing for the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism and the NT uses him as a Jew to incorporate Greek Mythology which is the main theme of his, Paul's gospel. (Acts 9:20)

            Jesus was the son of Joseph with Mary. Jesus could be called son of God but as part of the Jewish People if you read Exod. 4:22,23. A son of God without a biological father is idolatry.

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            • Originally posted by Omniskeptical View Post
              So what you are saying is that as a jew, even jew have your own gospel. Wha' jew gonna do about it?
              The gospel of the Jew is called Judaism. That's the gospel Jesus came to confirm down to the letter if you read Mat. 5:17-19.

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              • Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
                The gospel of the Jew is called Judaism. That's the gospel Jesus came to confirm down to the letter if you read Mat. 5:17-19.
                Ben, do you really believe there only one sect in Judaism?

                If you want to discuss Jesus the story begins here:
                The LORD hath sworn and will not repent, "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." (Psalm 110:4 KJV)

                Where do you want to go from here?

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                • Originally posted by jamie View Post
                  Ben, do you really believe there only one sect in Judaism?

                  If you want to discuss Jesus the story begins here:
                  The LORD hath sworn and will not repent, "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." (Psalm 110:4 KJV)

                  Where do you want to go from here?
                  First, to answer your question, yes, I do believe that there is only one Judaism. The branches within Judaism are only different levels of dedication.

                  Now, as Jesus was concerned, a priest after the order of Melchizedek was only a Hebrew expression to distinguish from being a priest after the order of Aaron the Levite. David, for example was a priest after the order of Melchizedek because he was not of the Tribe of Levi. That's how Paul referred Jesus to since he was not a Levite. The reference had absolutely nothing to do with the pagan king of the Canaanites in Salem at the time of Abraham. It just happens that his name was Melchizedek which meant king of peace.

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                  • Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
                    It just happens that his name was Melchizedek which meant king of peace.
                    Malkiy Tsedek (Melchizedek) means King of Righteousness.

                    Melchizedek was the priest of the Most High God. (Genesis 14:18 KJV)

                    Melchizedek's priesthood existed long before Levi was born.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by jamie View Post
                      Malkiy Tsedek (Melchizedek) means King of Righteousness.

                      Melchizedek was the priest of the Most High God. (Genesis 14:18 KJV)

                      Melchizedek's priesthood existed long before Levi was born.
                      No, as I said before, his name just happened to be Melchizedek which indeed means king of justice just as another king later was called Abimelech which means my father the king. But, Melchizedek was absolutely not the priest of the Most High God. He was rather a pagan king of the Canaanites who certainly sacrificed many of the firstborns of the Canaanites. Such a man could not even be related to the Lord our God. True that he existed at the time of Abraham but not at the time of David. David had conquered Jerusalem and dislodged the pagans from Zion, which became the home of David.

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                      • Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
                        But, Melchizedek was absolutely not the priest of the Most High God.
                        Well that proves you are not a Jew because you disregard the Torah.
                        And Melchizedek, king of Salem, brought forth bread and wine and he was the priest of the Most High God. And he blessed him and said, "Blessed be Abram of the Most High God, possessor of heaven and earth." (Genesis 14:18-19)

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                        • Originally posted by jamie View Post
                          Well that proves you are not a Jew because you disregard the Torah.
                          And Melchizedek, king of Salem, brought forth bread and wine and he was the priest of the Most High God. And he blessed him and said, "Blessed be Abram of the Most High God, possessor of heaven and earth." (Genesis 14:18-19)
                          Melchizedek brought forth bread and wine to Abraham who was the priest of the Most High God not Melchizedek. And Melchizedek did that because he was afraid that Abraham returning from battle with 4 kings could decide to take Melchizedek too. (Gen. 14:17)

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                          • Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
                            Melchizedek brought forth bread and wine to Abraham who was the priest of the Most High God not Melchizedek.
                            And blessed be the Most High God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he (Abram) gave him tithes of all. (Genesis 14:20 KJV)

                            For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him. To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being by interpretation King of Righteousness and after that also King of Salem, which is King of Peace. (Hebrews 7:1-2 KJV)

                            Now consider how great this man was unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. (Hebrews 7:4 KJV)

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                            • Originally posted by jamie View Post
                              And blessed be the Most High God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he (Abram) gave him tithes of all. (Genesis 14:20 KJV)

                              For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him. To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being by interpretation King of Righteousness and after that also King of Salem, which is King of Peace. (Hebrews 7:1-2 KJV)

                              Now consider how great this man was unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. (Hebrews 7:4 KJV)
                              He didn't. What Abraham gave to Melchizedek was a random amount of the lute from his war with the 4 kings because Abraham was a personification of justice. He would never take any thing for free. It just by coincidence it happened to be a tenth part of what his Army had taken in battle.

                              To consider Melchizedek a king of justice you are going after the definition of the name and not of the man. There is no justice in sacrificing the firstborn of a family to the fire of Baal Molech aka the main god of the Canaanites. I have posted a thread about the priests of the Most High in Israel.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
                                He didn't. What Abraham gave to Melchizedek was a random amount of the lute from his war with the 4 kings because Abraham was a personification of justice. He would never take any thing for free. It just by coincidence it happened to be a tenth part of what his Army had taken in battle.

                                To consider Melchizedek a king of justice you are going after the definition of the name and not of the man. There is no justice in sacrificing the firstborn of a family to the fire of Baal Molech aka the main god of the Canaanites. I have posted a thread about the priests of the Most High in Israel.
                                Melchizedek was medical person, i.e.. priest to Abraham. It matters little to me that you think of the overall account, because you are flatly wrong about. Melchizedek seems to be a non-(h)eber shemite at worst, but you are an idiot to associate a Moloch with the human melchizedek.
                                John 1:1-2 εν αρχη ην ο λογος At the beginning, it was a word; και ο λογος ην προς ο θεος and a word, it was unto a God; και θεος ην ο λογος and the God, it was.. A word 2 ουτος a-such... 2 ην εν αρχη προς ο θεος ... it was at the beginning unto a God.

                                Yahweh is a word of God, not just Christ!

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