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Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

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  • Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT) biblical or not?

    Which verses in the Bible support ECT and which verses in the bible support the doctrine that the wicked perish instead?

  • #2
    Many verses

    It is not that torment is for all time, it is just that time doesn't exist. (the clock doesn't move)

    Spiritual death is torment

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Tomlapalm,

      You say many verses in the bible support ECT, will you post a few of them?
      Also, I'm not sure that I agree that Spiritual death is torment. Can you tell me more about this? How can someone who is dead, be in torment at all?

      Comment


      • #4
        The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God through Jesus Christ is eternal life.
        Atheism is a advertising nightmare as in what you see is what you get and when you die that's it. - DaveDodo007

        Totally depraved doctrine.
        Uncertain salvation.
        Luck of the draw.
        Irresistible damnation.
        Persecution of the saints.

        Courtesy of Desert Reign

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Timotheos View Post
          Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT) biblical or not?
          What do Habakkuk 2:11; Matthew 3:8-9, and Luke 19:39-40 mean to you?
          That's my 2ยข

          "That upon which you set your heart and put your trust is properly your God."

          ~Martin Luther, Large Catechism, 1.1-3

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Timotheos View Post
            Thanks Tomlapalm,

            You say many verses in the bible support ECT, will you post a few of them?
            Also, I'm not sure that I agree that Spiritual death is torment. Can you tell me more about this? How can someone who is dead, be in torment at all?
            Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

            Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

            Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

            Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
            Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire

            Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
            Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


            Physical death is not spiritual death. Spiritual death is separation from God the give and sustainer of life.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Timotheos View Post
              Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT) biblical or not?
              It is a doctrine of demons, in my opinion.

              The wicked will perish.
              So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tomlapalm View Post
                Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

                Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

                Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

                Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
                Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire

                Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
                Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


                Physical death is not spiritual death. Spiritual death is separation from God the give and sustainer of life.
                We have today the Olympic Torch which is known as an "eternal flame." We call it that because the flame just keeps burning and burning. If you were to throw a wad of paper into the flame would the paper keep on burning and burning or would it burn up in a few seconds? Yet the flame is still called an eternal fire.

                Think about it.
                Atheism is a advertising nightmare as in what you see is what you get and when you die that's it. - DaveDodo007

                Totally depraved doctrine.
                Uncertain salvation.
                Luck of the draw.
                Irresistible damnation.
                Persecution of the saints.

                Courtesy of Desert Reign

                Comment


                • #9
                  "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matthew 25:46).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bradley D View Post
                    "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matthew 25:46).
                    If I judge you as guilty and sentence you to death and that death is never revoked you will be sent away into everlasting punishment. It's a punishment with an everlasting effect, that's why it's called everlasting punishment.

                    You people just can't fathom how God in his love, mercy, and judgement will end a person's existence unless he receives by faith the gift of God through Jesus Christ which is eternal life.
                    Atheism is a advertising nightmare as in what you see is what you get and when you die that's it. - DaveDodo007

                    Totally depraved doctrine.
                    Uncertain salvation.
                    Luck of the draw.
                    Irresistible damnation.
                    Persecution of the saints.

                    Courtesy of Desert Reign

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Revelations 14:9-11

                      From this verse it is clear, at least to my mind, that hell is eternal torment, with no rest.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bradley D View Post
                        "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matthew 25:46).
                        If punishment is not everlasting, then grammatically, neither is life.
                        Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

                        They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
                        I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

                        Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

                        "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

                        The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Krsto View Post
                          If I judge you as guilty and sentence you to death and that death is never revoked you will be sent away into everlasting punishment. It's a punishment with an everlasting effect, that's why it's called everlasting punishment.

                          You people just can't fathom how God in his love, mercy, and judgement will end a person's existence unless he receives by faith the gift of God through Jesus Christ which is eternal life.
                          You exalt God's love above His holiness/justice/wrath.

                          Not all sinners repent and receive His free gift.

                          Your interpretation of everlasting punishment is a rationalization not demanded by the text.

                          ECT is the biblical, historical, orthodox view. Tim should be able to google endless biblical support for it or read any number of books.

                          The popular annihilation or post-mortem conversion or inclusivism or universalistic views are false teachings usually found in the kingdom of the cults.
                          Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

                          They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
                          I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

                          Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

                          "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

                          The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tomlapalm View Post
                            Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

                            Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

                            Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

                            Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
                            Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire

                            Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
                            Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
                            Originally posted by Doormat View Post
                            It is a doctrine of demons, in my opinion.

                            The wicked will perish.
                            Neg rep for calling scripture a doctrine of demons. Repent you demon possessed perverted of the truth.
                            Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

                            Titus 1

                            For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

                            Ephesians 5

                            11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Nick M View Post
                              Neg rep for calling scripture a doctrine of demons. Repent you demon possessed perverted of the truth.
                              He was wrong to make a stupid statement, but that does not prove he is a godless unbeliever.

                              The Deity of Christ is an acid test, not the state of the dead.

                              John Stott had a traditional view on this subject (correct) and later changed his view. He remained a lover of God, godly man, disciple of Jesus Christ despite being wrong on an important, peripheral matter.

                              We would have to probe doormat's other beliefs to see if he is in the faith or not (believers do not agree on every peripheral doctrinal issue).
                              Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

                              They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
                              I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

                              Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

                              "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

                              The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

                              Comment

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