Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

[Timotheos]

Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT) biblical or not?

Which verses in the Bible support ECT and which verses in the bible support the doctrine that the wicked perish instead?

[tomlapalm]

Many verses

It is not that torment is for all time, it is just that time doesn't exist. (the clock doesn't move)

Spiritual death is torment

[Timotheos]

Thanks Tomlapalm,

You say many verses in the bible support ECT, will you post a few of them?
Also, I'm not sure that I agree that Spiritual death is torment. Can you tell me more about this? How can someone who is dead, be in torment at all?

[Krsto]

The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God through Jesus Christ is eternal life.

[M_Wm_Ferguson_MTh]

Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT) biblical or not?

What do Habakkuk 2:11; Matthew 3:8-9, and Luke 19:39-40 mean to you?

[tomlapalm]

Thanks Tomlapalm,

You say many verses in the bible support ECT, will you post a few of them?
Also, I'm not sure that I agree that Spiritual death is torment. Can you tell me more about this? How can someone who is dead, be in torment at all?

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Physical death is not spiritual death. Spiritual death is separation from God the give and sustainer of life.

[Doormat]

Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT) biblical or not?

It is a doctrine of demons, in my opinion.

The wicked will perish.

[Krsto]

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Physical death is not spiritual death. Spiritual death is separation from God the give and sustainer of life.

We have today the Olympic Torch which is known as an "eternal flame." We call it that because the flame just keeps burning and burning. If you were to throw a wad of paper into the flame would the paper keep on burning and burning or would it burn up in a few seconds? Yet the flame is still called an eternal fire.

Think about it.

[Bradley D]

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matthew 25:46).

[Krsto]

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matthew 25:46).

If I judge you as guilty and sentence you to death and that death is never revoked you will be sent away into everlasting punishment. It's a punishment with an everlasting effect, that's why it's called everlasting punishment.

You people just can't fathom how God in his love, mercy, and judgement will end a person's existence unless he receives by faith the gift of God through Jesus Christ which is eternal life.

[Ezekel]

Revelations 14:9-11

From this verse it is clear, at least to my mind, that hell is eternal torment, with no rest.

[godrulz]

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matthew 25:46).

If punishment is not everlasting, then grammatically, neither is life.

[godrulz]

If I judge you as guilty and sentence you to death and that death is never revoked you will be sent away into everlasting punishment. It's a punishment with an everlasting effect, that's why it's called everlasting punishment.

You people just can't fathom how God in his love, mercy, and judgement will end a person's existence unless he receives by faith the gift of God through Jesus Christ which is eternal life.

You exalt God's love above His holiness/justice/wrath.

Not all sinners repent and receive His free gift.

Your interpretation of everlasting punishment is a rationalization not demanded by the text.

ECT is the biblical, historical, orthodox view. Tim should be able to google endless biblical support for it or read any number of books.

The popular annihilation or post-mortem conversion or inclusivism or universalistic views are false teachings usually found in the kingdom of the cults.

[Nick M]

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

It is a doctrine of demons, in my opinion.

The wicked will perish.

Neg rep for calling scripture a doctrine of demons. Repent you demon possessed perverted of the truth.

[godrulz]

Neg rep for calling scripture a doctrine of demons. Repent you demon possessed perverted of the truth.

He was wrong to make a stupid statement, but that does not prove he is a godless unbeliever.

The Deity of Christ is an acid test, not the state of the dead.

John Stott had a traditional view on this subject (correct) and later changed his view. He remained a lover of God, godly man, disciple of Jesus Christ despite being wrong on an important, peripheral matter.

We would have to probe doormat's other beliefs to see if he is in the faith or not (believers do not agree on every peripheral doctrinal issue).