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WHO IS GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?

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  • WHO IS GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?

    Hi all, I thought this may be a helpful thread to all those who may be interested in knowing who God's ISRAEL is in the new covenant. This is actually an important subject as it makes the whole bible come alive if we have a correct understanding of this topic and subject matter. So the main question I am proposing here is...

    WHO IS GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT........

    (1) IS IT PHYSICAL ISRAEL ACCORDING TO THE FLESH; OR
    (2)ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD (THE CHURCH)?

    I am proposing that under the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures it is the second God's Church which is defined as all those who believe and follow God's Word. In support of this claims I would like to provide scripture to show....

    1. THE ORIGIN OF THE NAME ISRAEL AND WHY IT WAS GIVEN (linked)
    2. GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT IS ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD (linked)
    3. PHYSICAL ISRAEL ACCORDING TO THE FLESH IS NOT GOD'S ISRAEL ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT (linked)

    I believe the scriptures that will be provided here will show that God's ISRAEL are all those today who believe and follow God's Word and if we are not a part of God's ISRAEL by believing and following God's Word we will have no part in Gods new covenant promises and salvation by God's grace through faith of a new heart to be born of God's Spirit of love.

    Please: FRIENDLY DISCUSSION and if you disagree it is ok prove why through the scriptures alone. I would like to ask scripture only please.

    May we all have a closer walk with JESUS as we believe and follow his Word as only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that lead many to break the commandments of God.

    May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

  • #2
    1. ORIGIN OF THE NAME OF ISRAEL AND WHY IT WAS GIVEN BY GOD.

    The promise of God to Abraham that his descendance would be as the sand of the sea or start of heaven…

    GENESIS 22:15-18 [15], And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, [16], And said, By myself have I sworn, says the LORD, for because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son: [17], That in blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies; [18], And in your descendants shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because you have obeyed my voice.

    GENESIS 17:19 [19] And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

    Jacob a descendant of Abraham being 2nd born received the birth right from Esau...

    GENESIS 25:31 [31], And Jacob said, Sell me this day your birthright. [32], And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point of death: and what profit shall this birthright be to me? [33], And Jacob said, swear to me this day; and he swore unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob. [34], Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentils; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus, Esau despised his birthright.

    God’s promise to Abraham was to be fulfilled through Abrahams descendant Jacob

    GENESIS 32:11-12 [11], Deliver me, I pray you, from the hand of my brother, from the hand of Esau: for I fear him, lest he come and smite me, and the mother with the children. [12], And you said, I will surely do you good, and make your descendants as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.

    God changes Jacobs name to ISRAEL...

    GENESIS 32:24-28 [24], And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. [25], And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. [26], And he said, let me go, for the day breaks. And he said, I will not let you go, except you bless me. [27], And he said unto him, what is your name? And he said, Jacob. [28], And he said, Your name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince have you power with God and with men, and have prevailed.

    The name "Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel.

    ISRAEL (God’s new name given to Jacob) had 12 sons which make up the 12 tribes of ISRAEL

    GENESIS 35:22-26 [22], ... Now the sons of Jacob were twelve: [23], The sons of Leah; Reuben, Jacob's firstborn, and Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Zebulun: [24], The sons of Rachel; Joseph, and Benjamin: [25], And the sons of Bilhah, Rachel's handmaid; Dan, and Naphtali: [26], And the sons of Zilpah, Leah's handmaid; Gad, and Asher: these are the sons of Jacob, who were born to him in Paddanaram.

    God’s promise of the NEW COVENANT is to ISRAEL…

    JEREMIAH 31:31-34 [31], Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [32], Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; my covenant which they broke, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD: [33], But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    144, 000 Come out of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL…

    REVELATION 7:3-8 [3], Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads. [4], And I heard the number of them who were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. [5], Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. [6], Of the tribe of Asher were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasseh were sealed twelve thousand. [7], Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. [8], Of the tribe of Zebulun were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

    Yeps, seems like God’s people are called ISRAEL in both the OLD AND NEW Testament scriptures and the END OF TIME events John is describing in REVELATION 7. The word ISRAEL is a name that God gives to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD.

    To be continued in the NEW Testament....
    Last edited by 3rdAngel; May 19th, 2020, 02:03 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      2. GOD'S ISRAEL ARE ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD (The Church)

      There is no such thing as Jew or Greek anymore. All who believe and follow God's Word are one in Christ. Israel in the OLD COVENANT were those from the seed of Abraham. In the NEW COVENANT, if you are in Christ then you are Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise...

      EPHESIANS 2:11-14 [11], Why remember, that you being in TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12], That AT THAT TIME [in the Past] YOU WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANT OF PROMISE, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD: [13], BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS, YOU WHO WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

      GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

      God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...

      ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

      God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

      ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

      In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

      COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

      ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

      The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

      EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

      and again...

      JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

      Paul proclaims it here...

      HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

      The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD.

      If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

      ............

      God's ISRAEL is the name given by God to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. GENTILES are now grafted in. If you are not a part of the God's ISRAEL then you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.

      Comment


      • #4
        Now let's look at the meaning of the name that God gave to his people.

        The name "ISRAEL" ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl means; "HE WILL RULE WITH GOD" God gave this name to his people and it means that they shall rule with God. Take a look at the following scriptures from REVELATION speaking of God's people.

        REVELATION 1:5-6
        [5], And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. To him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, [6], And HAS MADE US KINGS AND PRIESTS TO GOD AND HIS FATHER; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

        and again...

        REVELATION 5:10 And HAVE MADE US TO OUR GOD KINGS AND PRIESTS; AND WE SHALL REIGN ON THE EARTH.

        Peter speaking of God's people says it this way...

        1 PETER 2:9-10 [9], But you [God's people] are a chosen generation, A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD [KINGS AND PRIESTS], an holy nation, a peculiar people; that you should show forth the praises of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light; [10], Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

        Sound familar? "ISRAEL" ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl means; "HE WILL RULE WITH GOD" WHY?

        JESUS is our great HIGH PRIEST ministering on our behalf in the HEVENLY SANCTUARY *HEBREWS 4:14. JESUS is the KING of KINGS *REVELATIONS 17:14; 19:16

        HE WILL RULE WITH GOD WHICH IS THE MEANING OF "ISRAEL" is the name given to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD because JESUS will make them to rule with him as PRIESTS and KINGS.

        Notice also in REVELATION 7:3-8 just before the judgements of God are poured out on the world God's people are sealed with God's Spirit and 144,000 come out of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL

        REVELATION 7:3-8 [3], Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads. [4], And I heard the number of them who were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of ISRAEL. [5], Of the tribe of JUDAH were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of REUBEN were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of GAD were sealed twelve thousand. [6], Of the tribe of ASHER were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of MANESSAH were sealed twelve thousand. [7], Of the tribe of SIMEONwere sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of LEVI were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. [8], Of the tribe of ZEBULON were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of JOSEPH were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of BENJAMIN were sealed twelve thousand.


        To be continued Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL...

        Comment


        • #5
          GENTILES ARE NOW GRAFTED IN TO GOD'S ISRAEL.

          ROMANS 11:16-27
          [16], For if the firstfruit are holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

          The root represents Christ...

          [17], And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree.

          The Jewish and the Gentile believers are the branches grafted onto the root (Christ)...

          [18], Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, you bear not the root, but the root you.
          [19], You will say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
          [20], Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Be not arrogant, but fear:

          God's ISRAEL are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD...

          [21], For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also not spare you.
          [22], Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off.
          [23], And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
          [24], For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, who are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
          [25], For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
          [26], And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

          The NEW COVENANT is for both Jews and Greek, bond and free, all those who are in Christ. All in Christ are the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise.

          [27], For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

          ................

          Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.

          Comment


          • #6
            3. PHYSICAL ISRAEL IS NOT GOD’S TRUE ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT

            ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

            GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

            ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

            Now listen to Jesus talking to the Jews...

            JOHN 8:31-39
            [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews who believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;
            [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
            [33], They answered him, We are Abraham's descendants, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free?
            [34], Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin.
            [35], And the servant abides not in the house forever: but the Son abides ever.
            [36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.
            [37], I know that you are Abraham's descendant; but you seek to kill me, because my word has no place in you.
            [38], I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and you do that which you have seen with your father.
            [39], They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus said unto them, If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.

            Jesus is saying the same thing as Paul in ROMANS 9:6-8 above. God's ISRAEL under the NEW COVENANT is not being a decendent of Abraham it is CONTINUING in God's WORD by BELIEVING and FOLLOWING it.

            The children of the promise are counted for the seed (ROMANS 9:8) ...

            HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:[11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.[12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

            continuing this same line of thinking from Jesus and Paul earlier...

            ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

            May God bless you all as you seek him through his Word

            Comment


            • #7
              WHAT ABOUT THE NATION OF ISRAEL?

              The HEBREW word used for NATION is dependent on the context of the scripture used and chapter. In the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures the references can be applied to ISRAEL as a Holy or Great Nation (Genesis 12:2; 17:20; 18:18; 21:18; 46:3; Exodus 19:6; 32:10 etc) or the surrounding gentile people.

              The HEBREW WORD for NATIONS is [H1471] גּוי גּי'; gôy gôy simply means; a massing of people;

              ISRAEL as a Holy Nation = Those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD will be a Holy massing of people

              ISREAL as a Great Nation = Those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOd's WORD will be a Great [MIGHTY] mass of people

              This is inline with God's promise to Abraham...

              GENESIS 22:17[17], That in blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying I will multiply your seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is on the sea shore; and your seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

              .............

              NATIONS as applied to God's people in the OLD COVENANT...

              EXODUS 19:6 [6], And you shall be to me a kingdom of priests, and an HOLY NATION. THESE ARE THE WORDS YOU SHALL SPEAK TO THE CHILDREN OF ISREAL.

              Applied to Christians as God's ISREAL in the NEW COVENANT...

              2 PETER 2:9 [9], But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an HOLY NATION, a peculiar people; that you should show forth the praises of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

              The OLD TESTAMENT scriptures are the keys to unlock the meaning of the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures together the OLD and NEW Testament make up the Word of God and we are to live by EVERY WORD of it (Matthew 4:4)

              God's ISREAL according to the OLD and NEW COVENANTS are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. Gentiles are now grafted in (Romans 11:16-27)

              Hope this helps.

              Comment


              • #8
                Key scripture as well as many others in the new testament is this one....

                ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

                God's ISRAEL are all those who believe and follow God's Word. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL be believing and following God's Word you have no part in God's new covenant of grace.

                May God bless you all as you seek him through his Word

                Comment


                • #9
                  Typical Replacement Theology heresy.
                  Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
                  Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by steko View Post
                    Typical Replacement Theology heresy.
                    Not really dear friend. Check the posts. God's word and scripture has been provided. I have only posted Gods' Word and God's Word is not my words but God's. The term "Replacement heresy" is only used by those who do not have scripture to support their teachings in which case the true heresy is one not based or supported by scripture but the teachings and traditions of men they deny God's Word. Where are your scriptures to prove your claims? If you have no scripture to support your claims then I believe it is you who is following heresy as what you are following is not supported by the scriptures as you have none to share. Something to pray about your side I guess. For me however, only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by steko View Post
                      Typical Replacement Theology heresy.

                      He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                      Jim Elliot

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post

                        Does any one have scripture? Guess not. What does that tell you? Something to pray about. Only Gods Word is true according to the scriptures *ROMANS 3:4.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 3rdAngel View Post

                          Does any one have scripture? Guess not. What does that tell you? Something to pray about. Only Gods Word is true according to the scriptures *ROMANS 3:4.
                          From According to the scriptures.org :


                          ​​​​​​ The Heresy of Replacement Theology

                          Replacement Theology is that form of doctrine held by various religious groups that hold to the teaching that God is finished with the nation Israel and has replaced her with a new people of God called the church. The prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are spiritualized and allegorized into promises of God's blessing that have been usurped by the church. Their contention is that there is no future in God's plans for the nation Israel.

                          This heresy goes back to a long line of “Early Church Fathers” beginning in the second century and was greatly popularized through Augustine by the third century. Augustine's writings were given the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur by the Roman Catholic church. Protestants, such as Luther carried the heresy of Replacement Theology out of the Roman Catholic church, and his anti-Semitic writings were some of the most malicious rants, whose bitterness against the Jews defiled many (Hebrews 12:15). It is no wonder that the nation that produced Luther also produced Hitler. During Nazi Germany almost all Germans were “Christian” and was comprised of about 20 million Roman Catholics and 40 million Protestants from three major sects, the Reformed, the Lutheran, and the United churches.

                          Calvin, while not as vitriolic as Luther, also brought Augustine's anti-Semitic drivel out of Rome. His religious DNA affected his followers producing the Reformed or Covenant Theology sects of Christianity which hold no future for the people of the “God of Israel” (Jeremiah 24:5-7). Sadly, today there are many other “Protestant” believing sects who have been infected by this anti-Semitic indoctrination finding themselves on the side of Muslim clerics and Roman popes.

                          This heresy will increasingly manifest itself until the time when it will reach its pinnacle during the “Time of Jacob's Trouble” (Jeremiah 30:5-7, Daniel 12:1, Joel 2:1-2, Matthew 24:15-16, 21-22) when Antichrist, another anti-Semite, worse than Antiochus Epiphanies or Hitler, will arise on the scene and “make war with the saints” (Daniel 7:21-22). In the Revelation we find out who is really behind this anti-Semitic persecution of the Jews down through the centuries and it is none other than the arch enemy of God and His people, Satan. (Revelation 12:13-16, 17; 13:7).

                          Replacement Theology rejects “dispensationalism” and calls those who have popularized this doctrine, such as Scofield and Darby, heretics. While these two may have popularized what has been referred to as “Dispensational Theology”, the doctrines thereof were always available within the pages of Scripture for the ardent student to glean. However, their exposition may only have been developed recently because that is the way God said things would unfold. When it was revealed to the prophet Daniel the things which would take place through the course of history and the things pertaining to the time of the end, he was told, “But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased... And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.” (Daniel 12:4, 8-10)

                          The prophetic utterances of Daniel were to be sealed up until the latter times and would be unveiled according to God's plans. The sufferings of the Messiah and His resurrection from the dead, although plainly spoken to His disciples was not fully comprehended until after His resurrection from the dead (Luke 18:31-34). “Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.” (1 Peter 1:10-12)

                          After the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Jews were scattered and many killed beginning in AD 70 with the destruction of their Temple and their scattering among the nations was brought to completion by the Roman armies in 135 AD. In subsequent centuries many came to the false conclusion that God was done with His people Israel, and transferred all of their promises to the Church. However, as the centuries went by and history began to unravel, the prophetic future of Israel was not brought into focus until certain events of recent origin prompted the Jews to return from their Diaspora beginning after WWI. This initiated a fresh study of the prophetic portions of Scripture. Was this not what the prophets had said all along? Was this not confirmed by our Lord and His apostles, how that the Jews in the latter times would return to their ancient homeland?

                          There came the time when Jesus knew that His hour had come when He should suffer and be glorified, being raised from the dead, then ascend back into heaven to the right hand of His Father. When this became imminent, and the Jews rejection of Christ became more openly manifest, He began to reveal the future of His people Israel. He told them armies would surround Jerusalem and it would be made desolate (Luke 21:20, Matthew 22:7), their temple would be destroyed (Luke 21:5-6), and many would “fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24)

                          He told them, “Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.” (Luke 13:35) Jerusalem, their temple, their house, would all be laid desolate because they did not recognize the time of their visitation (Luke 19:44). Many would die by the edge of the sword and others would be led away captive into all nations UNTIL...

                          It is quite clear from the Word's of Christ that the nation Israel would NOT be cast off forever (Romans 11:23-24). Nevertheless, the times of the Gentiles must be fulfilled first before they would see their Messiah again. The apostle Paul would state, “that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in” (Romans 11:25). God had long ago (over 2000 years before) scattered the Gentile nations across the face of the earth into their various places of habitation after their rebellion at Babel, leaving them to go their own way (Ephesians 2:11-12, Acts 17:26-29, 30-31). Although God overlooked their ignorance and left them off to their own devices, there was a future promise that one day Light would come to the Gentiles in the form of the gospel.

                          Nevertheless, since that time, when the Gentiles were forming the nations of the world, God made a covenant with Abraham and his descendants with many irrevocable promises concerning the land of Canaan (Genesis 48:4), an everlasting Kingdom where the seed of David would rule over the house of Jacob (Luke 1:32-33), even the promise of the Messiah who in the fullness of time came to redeem them which were under the Law (Galatians 4:4-5).

                          The precise date of the coming of the Messiah was foretold in Daniel's amazing prophecy of the Seventy Weeks (490 years) (Daniel 9:24-26). Daniel was told that there would be 483 years, from the going forth of the commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Nehemiah 2:4-7, 8) until their promised Messiah would arrive on the scene. This was precisely the date when our Lord Jesus Christ presented Himself as their King and promised Messiah (Luke 19:35-44), but a few days later was rejected (John 19:5-6) and “cut off, but not for himself”. For us He was “cut off”, when He died for our sins. Not only did He bear our sins in His own body on the tree, He rose from the dead according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Within a few decades, after it was clear that Israel's repentance was not forthcoming, the Roman armies came and “destroy[ed] the city and the sanctuary” (Daniel 9:26).

                          This is all history now, but there was still “one week” (7 years) left hanging in the balance. “And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for ONE WEEK: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.” (Daniel 9:26-27)

                          Herein lies a parenthesis, a gap if you will, between verse 26 and 27, between the 483 years and the final 7 years that were determined upon the holy city Jerusalem and Daniel's people the Jews. This is the same gap that Jesus made when quoting Isaiah (Luke 4:18-20, Isaiah 61:1-3), who, of course, "rightly divid[ed] the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15). This final week would be played out at the end of time AFTER the Lord gathers out of the Gentiles a people for His name. And to this agree all the prophets.

                          Many Jews were saved when Christ came into the world, but they were just a small remnant. For the most part, the nation Israel rejected Jesus Christ and in ignorance crucified the Lord of glory (1 Corinthians 2:8, Acts 3:13-16, 17). But after that He rose from the dead, and by many infallible proofs showed Himself alive to His people Israel (Acts 1:1-3), He ascended back into heaven. The gospel was proclaimed to the Jew first, but then to the Gentiles (Romans 1:16) after it was evident that the Jews would not repent. The gospel was to be preached first in Jerusalem and spread out from there (Luke 24:46-47).

                          Although the disciples did not fully comprehend the next phase of God's dispensation, they were to wait in Jerusalem as Christ gave them instructions. “When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.” (Acts 1:6-9)

                          The Jews would not see Him again UNTIL they would cry, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord”. Jesus had come in the name of His Father, but they would not receive Him (John 1:11; 5:43). He said, “The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.” (Luke 17:22) But He promised to return. First for His bride, the church (John 14:1-4), before He would “restore the kingdom to Israel”. It was not for them to know the “times and the seasons” as they had a more important task of taking the gospel to the ends of the earth.

                          Paul reiterated this decades later when he wrote, “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.” (1 Thessalonians 4:15-18; 5:1-3) Paul reemphasized this to them again in his second epistle (2 Thessalonians 2:1-10), teaching them that the rapture would precede the Day of the Lord.

                          The rapture (“caught up together... with the Lord”) would take place before the Day of the Lord begins. The Day of the Lord would begin with darkness, wrath and tribulation (Isaiah 13:9-12, 13, Zephaniah 1:14-17, 18, Ezekiel 30:3, Joel 1:15; 2:1-2, Deuteronomy 4:29-31), the Day when God will return and deal with the nations and His people Israel. The prophet Joel had much to say about the Day of the Lord, and there can be no doubt that during this time of great tribulation He will be dealing once again with Israel after their worldwide dispersion (Joel 2:18-19, 23, 26-27; 3:1-2, 6, 8-9, 11-14, 16-17, 20-21).

                          Israel would be born again (Isaiah 66:5-14). But she must first travail in pain before she will cry out for deliverance of the Lord Jesus Christ (Zechariah 13:9, Jeremiah 29:11-14, Romans 11:26-27). When the Lord came the first time He came preaching “deliverance to the captives” (Luke 4:18). He was the only One who could deliver them from their sins and the wrath to come on the unrepentant. He longed to gather them, but they “would not” (Matthew 23:37-39). So the kingdom would be postponed as the King ascended back to His Father until they go through the time of “Jacob's Trouble”. This is presented as “a great wonder in heaven” in the book of the Revelation 12:1-4, 5-6.

                          So, the time came, because of the nation Israel's stiff-necked rejection of Christ, that God would now set the Jews aside and move on with His program, His new dispensation, to be a Light unto the Gentiles (Isaiah 42:1-9; 49:6, Acts 13:46-47; 26:22-23). But does this mean He is done away with the nation Israel forever? No! The apostle Paul asked, “Hath God cast away his people? God forbid... God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew... Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.” (Romans 11:1-5) Today those who are saved, both Jew and Gentiles, are being incorporated together into the body of Christ (1Corinthians 12:12-13, Ephesians 2:11-22). But one day, the “times of the Gentiles” will be fulfilled, and the church will be caught up into heaven to be with Christ. Then shall He return again to deal with His people Israel during the final “week” of Daniel's prophecy. This is what Peter told the Jews after Pentecost.

                          “But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” (Acts 3:18-21)

                          For now the Jews, that is, the nation Israel, would be set aside until the latter days. “For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim: Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days” (Hosea 3:4-5).

                          This is the Scripture that James quoted confirming that God was not finished with Israel. “Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.” (Acts 15:14-18)

                          For the first time God visited the Gentiles in the house of Cornelius (Acts 10-11), which was to the astonishment of the Apostles. In the parenthesis between Daniel 9:26-27, Christ would build His church, the bride of Christ. After He takes out of the Gentiles a people for His name, He will catch them up to heaven to be with Him. Today this is what happens in Marriage. When a man takes his bride, from that day forward, she goes by his name. After He has taken a Bride, a people for His name, they will be carried away to be with Him on their honeymoon. After the church is raptured, Daniel's final 7 years will commence to deal with the Jews and their holy city. The rapture will trigger the “day of the Lord”. After this He will restore the kingdom to Israel as we have heard, “After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up” (Acts 15:16).

                          This is nothing different from that which we were told right from the very beginning, when Christ was brought as a babe to the Temple in Jerusalem. A man named Simeon, who was waiting for the consolation of Jerusalem was there, to whom it was revealed by the Spirit of God that he would not see death until he had seen the Lord's Christ. And when he had seen Jesus he said, “For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel... Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel” (Luke 2:25-35). Israel would fall but she will rise again. Paul said, “For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?” (Romans 11:15) They shall fall, but the result will be the reconciling of the world that God so loves (John 3:16), but after He has taken out of the Gentiles a people for His name, those dead bones shall live (Please read Ezekiel 37:1-28). This is marvelous in our eyes!

                          Many lies have infiltrated the church in these latter times. It is sad to see that this anti-Semitic replacement theology is one of them, but then, we should not be surprised, as it is this false doctrine that will aid in deluding the world with the Antichrist's final solution. And this is not the first time that the enemies of God have said God has cast off the nation Israel that they should no more be a people of God. “Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.” (Jeremiah 33:19-26)

                          We could present hundreds of Old Testament Scriptures that make it very clear that the nation Israel, the physical descendants of Abraham, known as the Jews, have a peculiar place in the eternal kingdom of God. God said He would do away with all nations but not Israel. “For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.” (Jeremiah 30:11).

                          Although the Lord punished His people Israel for their transgressions and scattered them among the nations, yet He promised, “And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.” (Leviticus 26:44, Jeremiah 31:10-12)

                          God made an unconditional covenant to give the land of Canaan to Abraham's descendants, his physical seed who came out of Egypt (Genesis 15:1-21), which is the nation Israel (Genesis 12:1-3; 35:10-12; 1 Chronicles 16:13-36). It was based on the promise of God. Their rebellion does not annul the promises of God (2 Timothy 2:13), rather she would be judged for her sin, and restored when she repents (Consider Leviticus 26:14-45).

                          “Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.” (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

                          The Replacement theologians have about a dozen pet Scriptures, but when read, considering the whole counsel of God we will find that in no way does it even hint, that God has replaced Israel with the church. They do not say that a Christian is a Jew and that the church is Israel. Nowhere does it state that the church is going to inherit the earthly promises to the twelve tribes of Israel. The Jew that is lost is still a Jew, Israel in his lost condition is still Israel, so “Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God” (1 Corinthians 10:32). Today, the Lord Jesus Christ is still building His church out of both the Jewish and Gentile nations.

                          When God judged Israel and led them captive by the Babylonians, they never ceased from being a nation. When the Romans destroyed their city and they were led captive into all nations, they never ceased from being a nation. And after 2000 years we have seen them brought back into their homeland, reborn as a nation (after the flesh), before our very eyes. And although they faced five major wars since that time, against insurmountable odds, they could not be moved because God had promised (Jeremiah 24:6-7).

                          “Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.” (Jeremiah 31:10)

                          Today, it is not only Israel that are dead in sins and trespasses, corpses full of dead men's bones. Jesus said YE must be born again. “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.” (John 3:5-8) And one day soon, the Lord shall breathe life into the nation Israel when she is brought back into the land and repents (Ezekiel 37:9-12, 13-14).

                          The whole earth is under the curse of sin and the shadow of death, and for those looking for redemption, who thirst for righteousness, Jesus says “Come unto me” (Matthew 11:28-30, John 7:37-39). God has given Him a name above every name (Philippians 2:5-8, 9-11). Jesus Christ is Lord, and there is none other name whereby one can be saved (Acts 4:10-12). Believe on Him and you shall have life through His name (John 20:28-31; 1John 5:11-13).
                          He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                          Jim Elliot

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by steko View Post
                            Typical Replacement Theology heresy.

                            All of my ancestors are human.
                            Originally posted by Squeaky
                            That explains why your an idiot.
                            Originally posted by God's Truth
                            Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                            Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                            (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                            1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                            (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                            Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 3rdAngel View Post
                              Israel in the OLD COVENANT were those from the seed of Abraham.
                              FALSE... Ishmael was one of "those from the seed and of Abraham" and he was NOT an Israelite.

                              Abraham is the father of MANY NATIONS (Genesis 17)... Israel being ONE of those (i.e., the "great nation", Genesis 12).

                              In the body of Christ, ethnic origin has no advantage. But that does NOT make the body of Christ "Israel".

                              The Bible clearly and ambiguously says that God will make a new covenant with Israel (not the fairy tale one that you are falsely presenting).

                              Jer 31:31-33 KJV Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
                              It's so simple that a child can understand it.
                              All of my ancestors are human.
                              Originally posted by Squeaky
                              That explains why your an idiot.
                              Originally posted by God's Truth
                              Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                              Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                              (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                              1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                              (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                              Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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