Lon
Well-known member
Specifically because you are working from the Gregorian backwards, instead of from the ones accepting the calendar forward.
THE LORDS DAY CONTROVERSY?
- Thread starter 3rdAngel
- Start date
Specifically because you are working from the Gregorian backwards, instead of from the ones accepting the calendar forward.
Lon
Well-known member
There you go. Conversation over. You cannot be reasoned with. Once you start doing this on TOL, you are going to be ignored because you are here to proselytize instead of learning from your elders or betters.
lain:Nonsense. Think it through dear Lon your argument makes no sense. Please tell me how the weekly cycle is effected when how exactly the weekly cycle is broken when in 1582 the on the Julian calander was a Thursday October 4 changed to the 15th October the very next day on Friday? The 10 days were taken out of the total amount of days in the year not the week. Friday still proceeded Thursday and there was no change to the weekly cycle. Further evidence was posted in a US NAVAL REPORT proving that there was no change to the weekly cycle. I suggest you do some more research. Your confused and simply wrong.
There you go. Conversation over. You cannot be reasoned with. Once you start doing this on TOL, you are going to be ignored because you are here to proselytize instead of learning from your elders or betters.
Nonsense, all your doing dear Lon is name calling without addressing any content or scriptures in the posts you are quoting from. If you want to have an honest discussion your best to stop the name calling and address the post content and the scriptures of the posts you are quoting from. For me you either have scripture to support your position or you do not. It seems you simply do not so your running away. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. I believe God's Word is either a blessing or a curse. It is a blessing to all those who believe and follow it and a curse to those who reject it.
Gods sheep hear his Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who are not His sheep do not hear and neither do they follow *JOHN 10:26-27 :sheep:
Lon
Well-known member
lain: You are not a smart man/woman. I didn't call you a name.The scriptures are authoritative. You with all your dismal education are not. However YOU put the scriptures together is suspect (means not trusted sight unseen, there is no asserting of your 'special' prowess. You either have it, or you don't).
lain: I didn't call you a name.What it 'seems' to you is of no consequence.
You are simply posturing and using the Bible as a club at this point. As I'd said in my initial statement, there is no way you can assert any particular day on several counts. There WERE scriptures given. Posturing like that wasn't true is horrible discussion/debate. You were given Galatians and Colossians. Why did you just lie about it? Did you miss it? Did you not realize you need to click on 'spoiler' tags? :think: How bright of a man/woman are you?
Uhm, ▲no scriptures▲
lain: Stop your posturing nonsense (saying I didn't or don't). You look terrible and dishonest for it. Are you dishonest? Just not bright? Put your better foot forward, or do you just like arguing with people on an immature level and saying things that are demonstrably untrue? I don't get you, 3ang. You've got a really big ego and head for such a little guy.Perhaps I am only a fisherman who speaks the truth of God's Word because God will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent?
Yet all I have provided is scripture and all you provide is name calling. You either have God's Word for your position or you do not. It seems you do not.
Maybe you should go re-read your posts.
Not really. I have only shared the scriptures as evidence of truth. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditons of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS says those who knowingly follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:2-9.
Your reposnse...
Uhm, no scriptures
Why is scripture needed in this post to prove a claim you falsely made by stating 10 days lost in a calander means no one knows the correct day in a weekly seventh day Sabbath when the weekly cycle is unbroken? I noticed you continue to not address my posts or the questions in them. Please tell me how the weekly cycle is effected when how exactly the weekly cycle is broken when in 1582 the on the Julian calander was a Thursday October 4 changed to the 15th October the very next day on Friday? The 10 days were taken out of the total amount of days in the year not the week. Friday still proceeded Thursday and there was no change to the weekly cycle. Further evidence was posted in a US NAVAL REPORT proving that there was no change to the weekly cycle. I suggest you do some more research. Your confused and simply wrong.
Anyhow you are free to believe as you wish. We will have to agree to disagree. :wave:
Lon
Well-known member
Because you are arrogant with your fingers in your ears. I've proved my point.
I'm sure you found a slight where none was given. Martyrdom complex? At this point, in assessment, I'd say you have a lot of issues and are more interested in championing your supposed scripture prowess than any great love or desire to share the truths of God. You are posturing and ATTEMPTING to one-up me. Well, go ahead. We BOTH will stand before our Maker. You like to just try and put me in that seat. You've a harsh reality coming.
:nono: you think you are the cat's meow when it comes ot scripture. The arrogance is palpable. You don't listen. Your scriptural studies and learning from our Savior, from your betters, is over. Congratulations?
Who cares what you 'think' is true. You aren't anybody. What matters is if you have the where-with-all to prove it. It is demonstrable that you make a lot of mistakes. How prideful and arrogant are you, when you cannot even listen?
No. You don't get to make up your own facts. Truth is truth whether you realize it or not. Don't try and make yourself feel better about your delusion. I've given you a very good reason to pay attention, you aren't doing it:
It is very clear, whether you are intelligent enough, paying attention enough, to grasp it or not. It is proved for this thread. Its over. You are done, whether you know it or not. Sorry, fact.
Now ask yourself if you actually love God enough to be corrected or do you love yourself and call that 'god?' :think: Grow up.
I see. So all your name calling helps you cause how? If you disagree with something that has been posted why not address the posts and scriptures shared with you? No need to be rude and unloving dear friend. Do you know that love is the fruit of God's Spirit?
No need to be judgemental dear friend. I suggest you read ROMANS 2:1-13.
Not at all dear friend. I have only posted the scriptures as evidence of truth. They are God's Word not my words and I believe we should believe and follow them. In response you are simply posting your words to deny God's Word that are your words not Gods. Perhaps you need to follow your own advice and listen to God's Word as they are Gods' Word not mine, so I guess your argument is with God not me dear friend.
Yet here you still are making many accusations you cannot prove providing your own opinion you cannot prove by the scriptures. Does this not worry you dear friend? It should because it is on the Word of God we stand or fall. It seems you have already fallen.
I did not make up my own facts. You were simply provided facts that prove that your claims in regards to the calander breaking the weekly cycle was a false one yet you will not accept this even though others have also tried to help you. I noticed that you continue to not address my posts or the questions in them. I asked you more then once now to please tell me how the weekly cycle is effected when how exactly the weekly cycle is broken when in 1582 the on the Julian calander was a Thursday October 4 changed to the 15th October the very next day on Friday? The 10 days were taken out of the total amount of days in the year not the week. Friday still proceeded Thursday and there was no change to the weekly cycle. Further evidence was posted in a US NAVAL REPORT proving that there was no change to the weekly cycle. I suggest you do some more research. Your confused and simply wrong. I believe your silence in addressing this only shows you know your in error but refuse to be corrected. You are free to believe as you wish. We will agree to disagree. I will leave it between you and God to work through.
I believe this is something you need to be asking yourself dear friend rather then trying to point the finger at other people, so I will leave that between you and God and pray for you.
May you receive God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear. :wave:
Lon
Well-known member
"Arrogant" is not name-calling :doh: It is a valuation on your behavior on TOL. You simply act arrogantly. Did you do this with your parents when they corrected you? You got all up in their face while they were trying to tell you that you were wrong, and you told them "well, if you can't see that God loves me and I'm right, then God have mercy on your soul"? Is that how you reacted to correction and instruction?
YOU are the one who is judging. I say 'we' will stand before God and you say "You will stand before Him." (true, but I'm not the one being arrogant, leaving myself out as if I'm better than anyone else, nor calling down that wrath).
Boom. There it is: "evidence." Much better than being arrogant and uncorrectable.
Incorrect, else I don't need to read you at all, just my Bible. There are a WHOLE BUNCH of you-words here.
Boom. And good on you. You 'believe.' Much better than the assertions that you are the very word of God incarnate. You may not have meant it, but that is how it has been coming across. It is much better to discuss things with brothers than to try and lord over them with prognostications. I already have rejected one Pope for it.
Unlike you, I know when I'm posting God's word and when I'm posting my own. Rather, I'm posting how I understand those words. Well, obviously you don't like those thoughts, but trying to trounce them as if your uneducated concepts are God's is incredibly arrogant. I too have the mind of God.
I did. And disagree that they say what you seem to want to make them say. Your special pleading is all in vain. I don't need a Father to tell me to know the Lord: Jeremiah 31:34 Hebrews 8:11 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord.’ For they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them,” saith the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”:chuckle: Nope (bad 'guess,' nice try). it is just with you. Nobody 'needs' you to read the Bible. I realize that is a great ego-crusher, but we really don't need you. Sad, isn't it? Good news? You don't need me either, not for this anyway. The Apostle said we are a body that belongs to each other, but you don't seem to like your stinky feet.
I'm not really worried what you think. You aren't that bright, so are probably wrong here too.
Yes. You. Do. Yes. You. Did.
Oh, THIS is what you were talking about? Okay, scripture and verse then. Prove it. I thought sure you reposted Freeloaders Navy link.
Because, on the day in question, a lot of people didn't accept the Gregorian calendar. It means, necessarily, that when those not on the calendar were celebrating Sabbath, it sometimes fell on the Gregorian Thursday, sometimes on the Gregorian Tuesday, etc. year to year because they didn't synchronize. Your Navy link doesn't come into play until the U.S. adopted the Gregorian calendar. Does it really matter? It does if you are asserting that "Saturday" (the pagan god day of the week) is Sabbath. Is that what you want to assert? If not, then who cares? If you are wrong, you are wrong. If am, (I'm not), then so what? The only problem would be if you are trying to force someone to observe a day that you, personally, randomly, assert is the Sabbath day of the week. I assert, if I haven't proved it, that its not true. Further? That Colossians 2 is correct in telling people to be careful not to be caught up in legalism. For freedom, Christ has set us free. There is no bondage but to Christ Himself. All else is trying to please God in one's own flesh, instead of through Christ. This cannot be allowed. Paul called it anathema.
Wasn't that hard, was it. You don't have to be another person's holy spirit or play that part. We plant, we water, only God gives increase. We disagree.
:nono: "We/us" stop being an arrogant guy. There is no 'you' when it comes to the judgement seat, we BOTH stand before our Maker. You are trying to take the seat above me again.
-Philippians 2:3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or empty pride, but in humility consider others more important than yourselves. 4Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
You didn't 'serve' me today. I did, however ineptly, attempt to served you, even if you didn't like it. "We" will be standing before the throne.
"Arrogant" is not name-calling :doh: It is a valuation on your behavior on TOL. You simply act arrogantly. Did you do this with your parents when they corrected you? You got all up in their face while they were trying to tell you that you were wrong, and you told them "well, if you can't see that God loves me and I'm right, then God have mercy on your soul"? Is that how you reacted to correction and instruction?
YOU are the one who is judging. I say 'we' will stand before God and you say "You will stand before Him." (true, but I'm not the one being arrogant, leaving myself out as if I'm better than anyone else, nor calling down that wrath).
Boom. There it is: "evidence." Much better than being arrogant and uncorrectable.
Incorrect, else I don't need to read you at all, just my Bible. There are a WHOLE BUNCH of you-words here.
Boom. And good on you. You 'believe.' Much better than the assertions that you are the very word of God incarnate. You may not have meant it, but that is how it has been coming across. It is much better to discuss things with brothers than to try and lord over them with prognostications. I already have rejected one Pope for it.
Unlike you, I know when I'm posting God's word and when I'm posting my own. Rather, I'm posting how I understand those words. Well, obviously you don't like those thoughts, but trying to trounce them as if your uneducated concepts are God's is incredibly arrogant. I too have the mind of God.
:chuckle: Nope (bad 'guess,' nice try). it is just with you. Nobody 'needs' you to read the Bible. I realize that is a great ego-crusher, but we really don't need you. Sad, isn't it? Good news? You don't need me either, not for this anyway. The Apostle said we are a body that belongs to each other, but you don't seem to like your stinky feet
I'm not really worried what you think. You aren't that bright, so are probably wrong here too.
Yes. You. Do. Yes. You. Did.
Oh, THIS is what you were talking about? Okay, scripture and verse then. Prove it. I thought sure you reposted Freeloaders Navy link
Because, on the day in question, a lot of people didn't accept the Gregorian calendar. It means, necessarily, that when those not on the calendar were celebrating Sabbath, it sometimes fell on the Gregorian Thursday, sometimes on the Gregorian Tuesday, etc. year to year because they didn't synchronize. Your Navy link doesn't come into play until the U.S. adopted the Gregorian calendar. Does it really matter? It does if you are asserting that "Saturday" (the pagan god day of the week) is Sabbath. Is that what you want to assert? If not, then who cares? If you are wrong, you are wrong. If am, (I'm not), then so what? The only problem would be if you are trying to force someone to observe a day that you, personally, randomly, assert is the Sabbath day of the week. I assert, if I haven't proved it, that its not true. Further? That Colossians 2 is correct in telling people to be careful not to be caught up in legalism. For freedom, Christ has set us free. There is no bondage but to Christ Himself. All else is trying to please God in one's own flesh, instead of through Christ. This cannot be allowed. Paul called it anathema.
Wasn't that hard, was it. You don't have to be another person's holy spirit or play that part. We plant, we water, only God gives increase. We disagree
:nono: "We/us" stop being an arrogant guy. There is no 'you' when it comes to the judgement seat, we BOTH stand before our Maker. You are trying to take the seat above me again
-Philippians 2:3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or empty pride, but in humility consider others more important than yourselves. 4Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
You didn't 'serve' me today. I did, however ineptly, attempt to served you, even if you didn't like it. "We" will be standing before the throne.
Goodness dear Lon, all of your name calling and false accusations are noted but these I am not interested in. Please let me know when you want to discuss the scrpitures and the OP and have a mature friendly discussion. Until then we will have to agree to disagree. Thank you for the discussion and for sharing your thoughts but for me only God's word is true and we should believe and follow them. :wave:
Lon
Well-known member
No name calling. You flit about from website to website hocking your wares. Why? Simply to get people to observe Saturday as the only day they can consider holy? Is that all you want? Is it worth all of this? Or do you do it to stroke your ego and pride and get into it, yet again, with someone like me? Why do you do it, Ang? What is the point? Isn't it to trouble people? Isn't that the goal? To give them your rendition of scriptures that 'they have wrong, but ang has right? Isn't that the motivation here? I've a need to trouble you back for it. God wants us to avoid foolish controversies (as Paul called them).
Here's another odd little story for you: A Christian navy pilot leaves his ship in the South Pacific, he arrives home three days before he left, granted that day is almost over, crossing the international dateline. The problem: He left on a Friday. He came home on a Wednesday and as he got home, it turned Saturday on his ship. Does he celebrate the Sabbath on Wednesday? The next day, he is called back and flies to his ship, it is now Sunday. Did he miss his Sabbath? Shouldn't he simply worship?
Legalism binds and harms people. It hurts them and frankly, is mean-spirited, not of God. Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery. 2Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
Titus 3:9 Avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
Follow the scriptures, Ang!
Your response....
Where is the name calling I have done in any of my posts to you. If I have been friendly and kind to you and not called you any names why are you pretending that I have? I am not posting like you are here.
There is no need for being unkind dear friend. I share God's Word because I it is my duty of love to do so nothing more and nothing less. God is not willing that any should persih but that all should come to a knowledge of his truth and be saved and to believe and follow his Word. Sin will keep all those who practice is out of God's kingdom. Sin is defined as not believing God's Word and breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *ROMANS 14:26; 1 JOHN 3:4 and God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken in the new covenant *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7 and just like any one of God's 10 commandments if we knowingly break it when we have been given a knowledge of the truth from the scriptures we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. You have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word from the scriptures but you do not believe and neither do you follow Gods' Words that are shared with you here. What do you think HEBREWS 10:26-27; ACTS 17:30-31 and 1 JOHN 2:3-4 mean? According to the scripture. Those who knowingly practice sin and those who do not is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10. I know what side I am on, how about you? Do you love JESUS dear Lon?
There you go again making false claims that no one is saying to you even after you were corrected as to what I believe earlier. I have never once said here or anywhere that we are saved by keeping the law. So your scripture is not relevant to our conversation. I am not telling you to go and get circumcised. It is not relavant to the conversation. For clarification once more let me state very clearly what I believe so there is no misunderstandings....
We are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.
TITUS 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
NOTE: In Titus 3:9 the GREEK word for the law used here is νομικός ; nomikos means ceremonial laws. So the scripture says to avoid foolish questions in relation to tracing generations [Geneologies] and having contentions in the ceremonial laws that are unprofitable.
It is not saying you should not discuss the 10 Commnadments. The issue of the time was tracing geneologies in ceremonial shadow laws fulfilled in Christ from the Mosaic book of the covenant, not God's eternal law (10 commandments) that give us the knowledge of sin. As God's 10 commandments give us a knowledge of what sin is and sin will keep all those who practice it out of God's Kingdom,
I think it is profitable to discuss them if they effect our salvation don't you?
Back to the OP now. There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. Yet this tradition is handed down from the Roman Catholic Church as well as many other false man made traditions and teachings and the whole world follows them. JESUS says in his own words that if we knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God we are not following God *MATTHEW 15:2-9.
Hear the very words of the Roman Catholic Church below (short) that taunts those who profiess to believe and follow Gods Word....
Who do you believe and follow; God or man?
Hear the very words of the Roman Catholic Church below (short) that taunts those who profiess to believe and follow Gods Word....
Right Divider
Body part
Ahhh Romans 14:5 another scripture people try and pull from it's context to try and make it say what it does not say. In context however it has nothing to do with God's 4th commandment which is never once mentioned. It is talking about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days. Not what days God esteems and judgeing others for this. The things that men esteem are an abominination with God * LUKE 16:15
Right Divider
Body part
What do you mean, you have not provided any truth. Every time scriptures are provided you deny them.
Lon
Well-known member
:doh:
Remember that what you are trying to force/shove your opinions. They are not 'scripture' as much as your ideas about them.
I do. Do I agree with you? No I do not. See, there are two things going on in this thread, 1) scriptures, the very words of God and 2) ideas about them, that must be weighed and balanced to show that they are applied correctly. Isn't it obvious that I disagree with you on the 2nd?
Well and good. Why the need to press a 'holy day upon people then?
What's your story? What's your point? What is the purpose of this thread?
I don't really need Greek lessons at this point in my life, unless you are professor who reads and speaks it fluently. Thanks anyway.
Following the ten commandments affects my salvation? Show me.
Exodus 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy." Is arguing on your Sabbath, 'remembering it and keeping it holy???" Seems odd to me. :think: I'll have to admit I don't get you at all. Your message is confusing and convoluted (you, not the scriptures).
I am not trying to force or shove anything. I have only provided Gods Word dear friend. God's Word not not mine but Gods'. You are free to believe His Words or not. We all answer only to God come judgement day for the words of God we accept or reject.
What you are posting here dear friend sounds like your confused and cannot make up your mind. Did you want to have another go here. Sorry I do not understand what your talking about.
There are plent of Greek and Hebrew free dictionaries online go check them out.
Please read 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-10; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4; JAMES 2:10-11; ROMANS 13:8-10; MATTHEW 22:36-40; MATTHEW 7:13-27; REVELATION 22:14; REVELATION 22:14. Your welcome.
Sorry I do not know what your talking about again. The scriptures are only hard to understand if you close your eyes and ears to hearing and seeing them.
Hope this is helpful