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CAN YOU HAVE GOD'S GRACE WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

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  • CAN YOU HAVE GOD'S GRACE WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

    Hello all, thought I should start doing some posting as I have not done any for sometime.

    Thought an interesting topic for discussion would be to discuss the role of God's law (10 commandments) in God's grace. Why? There seems to be come confustion in the role of the 10 commandments with mant peolple thinking they have been abolished. From reading the bible I believe there is nothing further from the truth. How can you have God's grace if there is no law that gives us the knowledge of good and evil? If we do not KNOW that we are all sinners how can we see our need of a Saviour?

    According to God's word, all those who continue in known unrepentant sin (breaking Gods law) will not enter into the kingdom of heaven *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27. I believe obedience to God's law is not how we are saved it is the fruit of God's work in us as we believe and follow his words. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. If we do not know we are sick why would we seek a physician? This is the role of God's 10 commandment which show us that we have all sinned and foll short of the glory of God *ROMANS 3:23

    .............

    SOME DISCUSSION QUESTIONS FOR THE OP

    Q1 WHAT IS GRACE FOR? (linked)
    Q2 CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW Pt1? (linked)
    Q2 CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW Pt2? (linked)
    Q3 WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE? (linked)

    (Scripture only please)

    ..............

    *FRIENDLY DISCUSSION PLEASE; PLEASE PROVIDE SCRIPTURE FOR YOUR CLAIMS

    God bless you all
    Last edited by 3rdAngel; May 16, 2020, 02:14 PM.

  • #2
    Sorry if anyone can help as well. How do you edit your posts and also add avatar tag? Thanks sorry noob here

    Comment


    • #3
      Hmm not a very busy forum I can see...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 3rdAngel View Post
        Hello all, thought I should start doing some posting as I have not done any for sometime.

        Thought an interesting topic for discussion would be to discuss the role of God's law (10 commandments) in God's grace. Why? There seems to be come confustion in the role of the 10 commandments with mant peolple thinking they have been abolished. From reading the bible I believe there is nothing further from the truth. How can you have God's grace if there is no law that gives us the knowledge of good and evil? If we do not KNOW that we are all sinners how can we see our need of a Saviour?

        According to God's word, all those who continue in known unrepentant sin (breaking Gods law) will not enter into the kingdom of heaven *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27. I believe obedience to God's law is not how we are saved it is the fruit of God's work in us as we believe and follow his words. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. If we do not know we are sick why would we seek a physician? This is the role of God's 10 commandment which show us that we have all sinned and foll short of the glory of God *ROMANS 3:23

        .............

        SOME DISCUSSION QUESTIONS FOR THE OP

        Q1 WHAT IS GRACE FOR?
        Q2 CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?
        Q2 CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?
        Q3 WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

        (Scripture only please)

        ..............

        *FRIENDLY DISCUSSION PLEASE; PLEASE PROVIDE SCRIPTURE FOR YOUR CLAIMS

        God bless you all
        Yes!

        What law are you referring to? All of God's laws? the laws in the Garden of Eden? The law of Moses? The law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus?

        Romans 8:2

        For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

        God's word makes it clear that God's grace is not dependent on our works. If there is a law, it takes work to obey those laws, it does not come effortlessly. Whether a "thou shalt not" law or a "thou shalt " law, it takes work to say, honor your father and mother, or to tear ourselves away from idols once we discover that we have been subject to them

        Adam and Eve did not owe their existence to anything they did. It was all God's grace that they lived at all, it is all God's grace that any of us are alive. Neither you nor I predetermined our existence. We did not decide preconception that we would be conceived. For that matter, for the most part, neither did your parents. granted they might have wanted a child, but that it would be you in particular, that was more a matter of chance, in the sense that only one of the miliions of sperm impregnated the egg in your mother's womb.
        "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

        "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

        Pro scripture = Protestant

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 3rdAngel View Post
          Hmm not a very busy forum I can see...
          It is a boost to the ego to get a lot of responses, but this website has slowed way down from what it was years ago.

          I wonder if the members are bored with the same old topics with the same old players with the same old responses, insults, etc.

          But, like on a dating website, if you are looking for that one person, then only that one person responding is the answer that i would prefer. I would rather have one response that is the right one, than have to sort through a thousand responses as a needle in a haystack
          "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

          "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

          Pro scripture = Protestant

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 3rdAngel View Post
            Hello all, thought I should start doing some posting as I have not done any for sometime.

            Thought an interesting topic for discussion would be to discuss the role of God's law (10 commandments) in God's grace. Why? There seems to be come confustion in the role of the 10 commandments with mant peolple thinking they have been abolished. From reading the bible I believe there is nothing further from the truth. How can you have God's grace if there is no law that gives us the knowledge of good and evil? If we do not KNOW that we are all sinners how can we see our need of a Saviour?

            According to God's word, all those who continue in known unrepentant sin (breaking Gods law) will not enter into the kingdom of heaven *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27. I believe obedience to God's law is not how we are saved it is the fruit of God's work in us as we believe and follow his words. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. If we do not know we are sick why would we seek a physician? This is the role of God's 10 commandment which show us that we have all sinned and foll short of the glory of God *ROMANS 3:23

            .............

            SOME DISCUSSION QUESTIONS FOR THE OP

            Q1 WHAT IS GRACE FOR?
            Q2 CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?
            Q2 CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?
            Q3 WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

            (Scripture only please)

            ..............

            *FRIENDLY DISCUSSION PLEASE; PLEASE PROVIDE SCRIPTURE FOR YOUR CLAIMS

            God bless you all
            We have to obey the commandments, but as for the Sabbath, Jesus is the Sabbath rest. Observing special days was part of the works of the law. It was a shadow and teaching tool about Jesus. It is worthless now to observe special days, but we are to observe Jesus all day every day.

            Matthew 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.

            Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

            Isaiah 30:15 This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says: "In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it.

            Isaiah 28:12 to whom he said, "This is the resting place, let the weary rest";

            Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
            Galatians 4:9 But now that you know God--or rather are known by God--how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?
            10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!

            Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

            The Sabbath is a sign.

            Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

            The Lord Jesus sanctifies us and the Holy Spirit is the sign.


            Grace is that we no longer have to work at purifying ourselves with the purification works, just to go to the temple to be near God's Spirit, because Jesus purifies us now and we become the temple of His Spirit.
            Oh how I love the Word of God!

            Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 3rdAngel View Post
              Sorry if anyone can help as well. How do you edit your posts and also add avatar tag? Thanks sorry noob here
              Hi, welcome to the site. I think as a new person you cannot do some things until you have posted a certain number of posts.

              I will look for your posts and hope we can discuss the things of God together.

              Oh how I love the Word of God!

              Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

                Q1 WHAT IS GRACE FOR?
                Q2 CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?
                Q2 CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?
                Q3 WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

                Q1 WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

                "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life" (Eph. 2:8-10)

                Q2 CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

                "I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" (Gal. 2:21)

                Q3 WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

                "The Law was given so that the trespass would increase; but where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.…"(Rom. 5:20-21).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by oatmeal View Post

                  Yes!

                  What law are you referring to? All of God's laws? the laws in the Garden of Eden? The law of Moses? The law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus?

                  Romans 8:2

                  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

                  God's word makes it clear that God's grace is not dependent on our works. If there is a law, it takes work to obey those laws, it does not come effortlessly. Whether a "thou shalt not" law or a "thou shalt " law, it takes work to say, honor your father and mother, or to tear ourselves away from idols once we discover that we have been subject to them

                  Adam and Eve did not owe their existence to anything they did. It was all God's grace that they lived at all, it is all God's grace that any of us are alive. Neither you nor I predetermined our existence. We did not decide preconception that we would be conceived. For that matter, for the most part, neither did your parents. granted they might have wanted a child, but that it would be you in particular, that was more a matter of chance, in the sense that only one of the miliions of sperm impregnated the egg in your mother's womb.


                  Hi there oatmeal, thanks for your response and nice to meet you here. Nice to have a discussion with someone. As to your questions? Most I think are answered in the OP, What law? This as in reference to God's law (10 commandments) and what role if any it has in God's grace. Love those scriptures in Romans 8. The Spirit of life does indeed free us from the law of sin and death which is the wages of sin. I love this scriptures as it read within..

                  Romans 8:1-4
                  [1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
                  [2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
                  [3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
                  [4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

                  I see the purpose of God's Spirit being revealed in v4 and supports what Paul is saying in Romans 3:31 and Romans 13:8-10 in fulfillment of God's new covenant promise in Hebrews 8:10-12 and Galatians 5:16.

                  .........

                  Indeed I believe we are only saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *Ephesians 2:8. Obedience to God's law (10 Commandments) is not how we are saved it is the fruit of God's work in us as we believe and follow his word by faith that works by love. For me I believe God's Word teaches that salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *Romans 6:1-23; John 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the new covenant promise to love *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12; Philippians 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. Therefore based on the above scriptures although we only be God's grace, through faith alone, God gives us his grace for obedience to the faith...

                  Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name

                  Thanks for sharing your view oatmeal,

                  God bless.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by oatmeal View Post

                    It is a boost to the ego to get a lot of responses, but this website has slowed way down from what it was years ago.

                    I wonder if the members are bored with the same old topics with the same old players with the same old responses, insults, etc.

                    But, like on a dating website, if you are looking for that one person, then only that one person responding is the answer that i would prefer. I would rather have one response that is the right one, than have to sort through a thousand responses as a needle in a haystack


                    Hmm.. It is a discussion board right? My intent in starting the thread was to have a discussion on the scriptures to be honest. I am not here to insult anyone. Just wanting to have a friendly discussion on the scriptures. I do not think the reason for lack of responses is the topics, same old responses etc. There are many other forums that I see are very active. True though it is good to talk to anyone to have a dicussion. I love talking and sharing the scriptures. I hope to meet others here that have the same mind so that we can help each other have a closer walk with Jesus.

                    God bless

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 3rdAngel View Post



                      Hi there oatmeal, thanks for your response and nice to meet you here. Nice to have a discussion with someone. As to your questions? Most I think are answered in the OP, What law? This as in reference to God's law (10 commandments) and what role if any it has in God's grace. Love those scriptures in Romans 8. The Spirit of life does indeed free us from the law of sin and death which is the wages of sin. I love this scriptures as it read within..

                      Romans 8:1-4
                      [1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
                      [2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
                      [3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
                      [4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

                      I see the purpose of God's Spirit being revealed in v4 and supports what Paul is saying in Romans 3:31 and Romans 13:8-10 in fulfillment of God's new covenant promise in Hebrews 8:10-12 and Galatians 5:16.

                      .........

                      Indeed I believe we are only saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *Ephesians 2:8. Obedience to God's law (10 Commandments) is not how we are saved it is the fruit of God's work in us as we believe and follow his word by faith that works by love. For me I believe God's Word teaches that salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *Romans 6:1-23; John 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the new covenant promise to love *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12; Philippians 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. Therefore based on the above scriptures although we only be God's grace, through faith alone, God gives us his grace for obedience to the faith...

                      Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name

                      Thanks for sharing your view oatmeal,

                      God bless.
                      The ten commandments are but a few of the laws and commandments that God required of the nation of Israel.

                      There are laws and commandments regarding all aspects of life numbering in the hundreds.

                      All which are done away with for righteousness by Christ.

                      Galatians 2:21

                      I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
                      "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                      "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                      Pro scripture = Protestant

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by oatmeal View Post

                        The ten commandments are but a few of the laws and commandments that God required of the nation of Israel.

                        There are laws and commandments regarding all aspects of life numbering in the hundreds.

                        All which are done away with for righteousness by Christ.

                        Galatians 2:21

                        I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
                        Paul is speaking about the PURIFICATION WORKS, which are called the works of the law.

                        Works of the law:

                        The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.


                        Those are the works of the law we do not do anymore.

                        Paul never ever speaks of our obedience to Jesus being no more to get saved.
                        Oh how I love the Word of God!

                        Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi there GT, nice to meet you here and thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have added some comments for your consideration below

                          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          We have to obey the commandments, but as for the Sabbath, Jesus is the Sabbath rest. Observing special days was part of the works of the law. It was a shadow and teaching tool about Jesus. It is worthless now to observe special days, but we are to observe Jesus all day every day.
                          Matthew 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
                          Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
                          So GT you believe that we have to keep 9/10 commandments? Can you show me a scriptures that says Jesus is the Sabbath rest? The only ever definition I have ever found of "Sabbath" in God's 4th commandment is the 7th day of the week as shown in

                          Exodus 20:10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God...

                          There is no scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath. We do get rest however from believing and following Gods' Word. I believe that God's 4th commandment is a part of God's 10 commandments and there are not 9 commandments written and spoken by God on the tables of stone but 10 as shown in Exodus 20:8-11; Exodus 32:16; Exodus 20:1-17. I do not believe we are saved by them but that their role is to give us the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness in the new covenant as shown in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and if we break anyone of them we stand guitly before God of sin *James 2:10-11.

                          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          Isaiah 30:15 This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says: "In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it.
                          Indeed dear friend. Repentance is from sin which is defined in the scriptures as not believing God's Word and breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *Romans 14:23; 1 John 3:4

                          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          Isaiah 28:12 to whom he said, "This is the resting place, let the weary rest";
                          I like Isiaah 28 very much and especially the scriptures around v12 as the context and subject matter is to those who are following false teachings and the call to return to the pure word of God. A message indeed to all of us today that will be living in these last days...

                          Isaiah 28:7-16
                          [7], But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
                          [8], For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
                          [9], Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
                          [10], For precept must be on precept, precept on precept; line on line, line on line; here a little, and there a little:
                          [11], For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
                          [12], To whom he said, This is the rest with which you may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
                          [13], But the word of the LORD was to them precept on precept, precept on precept; line on line, line on line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
                          [14], Why hear the word of the LORD, you scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
                          [15], Because you have said, We have made a covenant with death (Sin), and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing whip shall pass through, it shall not come to us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
                          [16], Therefore thus said the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believes shall not make haste.

                          The rest here is the same as Matthew 11:28-30 of believing and following God's word. Both these scriptures do not say that Jesus is a Sabbath. Only that we receive Gods' rest from believing and following God's Word. No one enters into Gods' rest (the Sabbath) without believing and following God's Word *Hebrews 4:1-4. If God asks his people to "remember" keep the Sabbath holy (God's 4th commandment - Exodus 20:8-11) and we say no, are we believing and following God's word?

                          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
                          Indeed great scripture. Jesus goes on to say...

                          Matthew 5:18-19 [18], For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
                          [19], Whoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [20], For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

                          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          Galatians 4:9 But now that you know God--or rather are known by God--how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!
                          I do not see these scriptures are referring to God's 4th commandment as there is no reference to God's 4th commandment in any of Galatians. Pauls audience here is to gentile believers not Jews so the turning back cannot be in referenc to God's 4th commandment as they never obeyed it before coming to Jesus. Also, like Jesus and the disciples Paul's custom was to keep the Sabbath according to the 4th commandment *Acts 17:2. Happy to look further at these scriptures if you like? Can you show me why you believe Galatains 4 is talking about God's Sabbath? I have read it and cannot see this is referring to God's 4th commandment.

                          Taking into consideration the above. This is how I very these scriptures...

                          Galatians 4:8-11 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [10] You observe days, and months, and times, and years. [11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

                          Galatians 4 says nothing about sabbaths. Its speaking of those Gentile believers who observe times before they came to Christ.

                          Deuteronomy 18:9-11 [9] When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

                          The same thing goes on to this very day. Its speaking of the occult. Those who observe certain days by use of horoscopes?

                          2 Chronicles 33:3-6 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: Also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger

                          Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards. Its speaking of the occult. Not following sabbath days.

                          LEVITICUS 19:26-30 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment,nor observe times. [27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

                          I guess this scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.

                          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
                          For me I do not see this is in reference to God's 4th commandment as the context is not to sabbath singular but sabbaths plural and the within chapter context here is to the sabbaths in the feast days not God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments. These sabbaths were shadows linked to the feast days and days of holy convocation where no work can be carried out and could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle of the annual feast days of Leviticus 23. Did you know there are many different kinds of sabbaths in the old testament that are not God's 4th commandment dear friend? In the old testament sabbaths that were not God's 4th commandment included....

                          1. The Sabbaths of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *Leviticus 23:6-8
                          2. The Sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *Leviticus 23:27-32
                          3. The Sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *Leviticus 23:24-25?
                          4. The Sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *Leviticus 23:34-36
                          5. Feast of first fruits (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *Leviticus 23:39
                          6. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week
                          7. The Sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle) *Leviticus 25:2
                          8. The Sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths *Leviticus 25:9-54

                          Happy to discuss Colossians 2:16-17 indepth of your interested looking at both the within chapter and scriptures context and linking the old testament scriptures Paul is quoting from if you like. I think this would be a great discussion actually as I believe many people have not been taught the truth here.

                          There is actuallyt not one scriptures in all of God's word that says God's 4th commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day. Do you know why we keep Sunday today dear GT?

                          Thanks for sharing your view GT.

                          God bless



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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

                            Hi, welcome to the site. I think as a new person you cannot do some things until you have posted a certain number of posts.

                            I will look for your posts and hope we can discuss the things of God together.
                            Great thanks for that GT. Appreciate the heads up.

                            God bless

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bradley D View Post


                              Q1 WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

                              "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life" (Eph. 2:8-10)

                              Q2 CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

                              "I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" (Gal. 2:21)

                              Q3 WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

                              "The Law was given so that the trespass would increase; but where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.…"(Rom. 5:20-21).
                              Hey Brad, nice to meet you and thanks for sharing your view. Indeed I believe we are only saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *Ephesians 2:8. I do not believe we get our righteousness from keeping the law Brad either. As posted to someone earlier, obedience to God's law (10 Commandments) is not how we are saved it is the fruit of God's work in us as we believe and follow his word by faith that works by love. For me I believe God's Word teaches that salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *Romans 6:1-23; John 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the new covenant promise to love *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12; Philippians 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. Therefore based on the above scriptures although we only be God's grace, through faith alone, God gives us his grace for obedience to the faith.

                              Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name

                              Thanks for sharing your view Brad,

                              God bless.

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