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Union with Christ before believing in Him !

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  • #46
    God only saves those people whom He wants to save. The rest are lost.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by RBBI View Post
      They are His, and He obviously died for them too, but they have not received the adoption that sons receive; so no, they are not joined to Christ yet. The WHOLE garden is His, to do with as He pleases, in His time. Covenants require action on the part of BOTH parties, not just one. Otherwise it's faith without works. Peace
      Post 35 did you read and understand it?
      "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
      preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
      called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
      a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

      Charles Spurgeon !

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
        Post 35 did you read and understand it?
        Yes, I did read and understand it. And I agree with you, they are His, but they are asleep without Christ. Read Matt. 13 parable of the wheat and the tares again.

        Can you hear this? There were two trees in the midst of the garden. One of them was the golden candlestick, one of them was the table of showbread. If the MIDST of the garden was for the priests only (holy place) but the outer court was for all, even the "God-fearers" strangers from Israel, THEN THE WHOLE GARDEN IS HIS.

        Costing you something, isn't it? Blessings and Peace

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        • #49
          Originally posted by RBBI View Post
          Yes, I did read and understand it. And I agree with you, they are His, but they are asleep without Christ. Read Matt. 13 parable of the wheat and the tares again.

          Can you hear this? There were two trees in the midst of the garden. One of them was the golden candlestick, one of them was the table of showbread. If the MIDST of the garden was for the priests only (holy place) but the outer court was for all, even the "God-fearers" strangers from Israel, THEN THE WHOLE GARDEN IS HIS.

          Costing you something, isn't it? Blessings and Peace
          Please review the points in the post with me to see if you understand them!
          "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
          preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
          called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
          a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

          Charles Spurgeon !

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
            Are those Christ died for in Union with Him before they believe ? The answer to this very important question is absolutely YES, for there did and must have been a Union between Himself and them He died for, or their could not have been any just and legal grounds for Him to have died for their sins, no grounds for their sins to have been charged to His account, and such scriptures as these would be invalid and without legal warrant 1 Cor 15:3

            3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

            This is without warrant if no previous Union existed !

            1 Pet 2:24

            24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

            This is without warrant if no previous Union existed !

            Isa 53:5

            5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

            This is without warrant if no previous Union existed !

            Now understand, this Union between them and Him had to be and was just as real and legally binding as it was for them in Adam, since if they were not really legally in Adam when he sinned, then they could not have sinned with him as it is surely indicated in Rom 5:12

            12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

            All men sinned in and by Adams One sin, death passed upon all men because of Adams sinned,

            or better yet they could not have been made sinners by Adams one act of disobedience as indicated here Rom 5:19

            19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

            This could not have justly occurred apart from a legal union recognized by the Jude of all the earth, God !

            Paul writes that all die IN ADAM 1 Cor 15:22

            22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

            The word in here is a prep that means:

            en (a preposition) – properly, in (inside, within); (figuratively) "in the realm (sphere) of," as in the condition (state) in which something operates from the inside (within).

            This denotes a Union in Adam, in that Union all died with Adam !

            But in antithesis all in Christ shall be made alive, So all in Christ legally shall be made alive; Now we have already showed that in order for Christ to have died for our sins 1 Cor 15:3, He had to be in a Legal binding Union with Us, as it was likewise with us in Adam, and such Union constituted us as being In Christ, as no less as being in Adam, and because of being in Christ legally for Him to die for us, there can never be from God legally any condemnation charged to us, Rom 8:1

            There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

            Those of Us Christ died for, sin cannot and will not be charged or imputed to us Rom 4:8

            8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Not to impute sin is not to impute condemnation as well !

            So, if there was no Union with Christ before Faith, Christ's death could not have been for us, and faith in Christ would be in vain or to no avail with God !


            Amen, there must be an Eternal Union in Christ before Faith!


            All that were chosen in Union with Christ, the Federal Head of His Church,
            before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4, are the same all
            who were originally in Adam their natural federal head;

            that died in Adam when he sinned.

            1 Cor 15:22
            For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.


            So only the Church, who were originally chosen in union with Christ,
            were in union with Adam their Federal Head
            .


            It was only after Adam sinned that all the rest of humanity,
            those that the devil sowed into the world Mat. 13:38-39,
            the condemned world 1 Cor. 11:32, the reprobates, were added to his posterity.

            ~~~~~
            My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever;
            when shall I be brought in to see His Face? - Psalm 42:2

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Nanja View Post
              Amen, there must be an Eternal Union in Christ before Faith!


              All that were chosen in Union with Christ, the Federal Head of His Church,
              before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4, are the same all
              who were originally in Adam their natural federal head;

              that died in Adam when he sinned.

              1 Cor 15:22
              For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.


              So only the Church, who were originally chosen in union with Christ,
              were in union with Adam their Federal Head
              .


              It was only after Adam sinned that all the rest of humanity,
              those that the devil sowed into the world Mat. 13:38-39,
              the condemned world 1 Cor. 11:32, the reprobates, were added to his posterity.

              ~~~~~
              Amen, you have understood correctly, that is the Lords doing, for it's Him that gives us Understanding!
              "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
              preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
              called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
              a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

              Charles Spurgeon !

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                Amen, you have understood correctly, that is the Lords doing, for it's Him that gives us Understanding!

                Praise and Glory to our Eternal Father, for He has given us His Spirit 1 John 2:27!

                ~~~~~
                My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever;
                when shall I be brought in to see His Face? - Psalm 42:2

                Comment


                • #53
                  What you're seeing is the FIRSTFRUITS, that were joined unto Him as the Alpha, returning as the Omega. But it's every man in his own order after that. Saviors arise on Mt. Zion because there are still those that need to be saved. The Lord always works with a firstfruits any time He is getting ready to make a change.

                  The tares are not men, but the seeds of darkness planted in all men, while Adam slept. The world (earthen vessels) is where the good seed (Christ) is planted. Know ye not ye are the temple of the living God?

                  HaShem put him to sleep, but you cannot find where He woke him up, until you read, Arise and shine (shake off the dust) and Christ will give thee light....Peace

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    If someone can be in eternal union with Christ before believing the Gospel, then many "lost" are actually saved. That makes B57 wrong when he says many of us here on TOL are lost because he can't know that...it could be that Christ just hasn't fully opened our eyes and converted us to Calvinism yet.

                    So next time B57 says, "You don't believe that!" just say, "Maybe God will make me, so stop judging."
                    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                    Terence Mc Lean

                    [most will be very surprised]


                    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by dialm View Post
                      God only saves those people whom He wants to save. The rest are lost.
                      God is upset with you for saying that -

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by dialm View Post
                        God only saves those people whom He wants to save. The rest are lost.
                        That is right.

                        God saves only those He wants to save. See John 5:21.

                        God saves those whom He is pleased to save.

                        Who pleases God?

                        Those who please God are those who fear Him and do what is right. See Acts 10:35.
                        Oh how I love the Word of God!

                        Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by dialm View Post
                          God only saves those people whom He wants to save. The rest are lost.
                          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          That is right.
                          Denying God's grace to others only denies it to yourselves. Repent.
                          "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                          Terence Mc Lean

                          [most will be very surprised]


                          Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                          By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by musterion View Post
                            Denying God's grace to others only denies it to yourselves. Repent.
                            What? Did you say 'Repent'?

                            Yes! Amen!

                            Now you have stumbled on the truth!

                            Repent to be saved!
                            Oh how I love the Word of God!

                            Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              When have I ever said otherwise? I've always believed in repentance because that's what Paul preached (Acts 17:30-31; 26:20).

                              Our disagreement is on what repent means, how one does it, and why.
                              "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                              Terence Mc Lean

                              [most will be very surprised]


                              Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                              By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by musterion View Post
                                When have I ever said otherwise? I've always believed in repentance because that's what Paul preached (Acts 17:30-31; 26:20).

                                Our disagreement is on what repent means, how one does it, and why.
                                Repent does NOT just mean to believe!

                                Repent means to be sorry for your sins and stop doing them!
                                Oh how I love the Word of God!

                                Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                                Comment

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