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  • Those who aren't part of The Kingdom cannot comprehend same, or bring an argument which might shatter the reality of those who live, move and breathe every breath within that Kingdom. You're speaking from darkness to one who's in The Light. You can't put forth a single shadow which the light hasn't already exposed. It's the same lie that was the very first lie told on this planet: "Hath God said...?" Truly: He did say. He said a lot. He's still speaking. He doesn't speak a single syllable in the UB. It's from beneath. You don't believe His Word, so you aren't part of His Kingdom (yet).
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
      Those who aren't part of The Kingdom cannot comprehend same, or bring an argument which might shatter the reality of those who live, move and breathe every breath within that Kingdom. You're speaking from darkness to one who's in The Light. You can't put forth a single shadow which the light hasn't already exposed. It's the same lie that was the very first lie told on this planet: "Hath God said...?" Truly: He did say. He said a lot. He's still speaking. He doesn't speak a single syllable in the UB. It's from beneath. You don't believe His Word, so you aren't part of His Kingdom (yet).
      God alone knows whats in my heart and that I am saved. You presume to stand in judgment of me while claiming the Bible is "the Word", what a fool and a typical christian hypocrite!

      And if you knew the Bible it says quite clearly that the Son of God is the word, not the Bible. No where does the Bible claim to be the word, rather you have the spiritual sickness of needing to control likely because you lack control in some secret part of your life.



      Caino

      "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

      Comment


      • incredible

        ~*~*~

        The amount of ignorance and religious presumption/egoity/exclusivity out there is amazing. A comprehensive and at least thorough research and understanding of what the Urantia Papers are and teach, their content, coverage and cosmology is at least essential to qualify one to critique the Papers, besides the fact of discussing particular subjects relative to man's spiritual condition and destiny...which the Papers go into great depth in explaining. Those interested in the UB have been given adequate resources to enlighten themselves, and draw from a theological perspective with cosmic significance and import.

        Nitpicking on non-essentials or ad hominems are below the standards the celestials have modelled for us to emulate.


        UB Fellowship


        pj


        sigpic

        Our Real Nature
        freelight's cosmic cafe
        Free-light-Express

        ~*~*~
        Resource Nexus l Theosophical Studies l Esoteric School of Gnostic Wisdom l Sanatana Dharma lAdidaml Facebook l Thread Catalog & History

        Comment


        • How were the Jewish people able to maintain some semblance of political identity under Roman rule? Was it because they were God's "chosen people", or were they "predicted people", an honour that went to their nationalistic ego?


          THE JEWISH PEOPLE

          121:2.1 The Jews were a part of the older Semitic race, which also included the Babylonians, the Phoenicians, and the more recent enemies of Rome, the Carthaginians. During the fore part of the first century after Christ, the Jews were the most influential group of the Semitic peoples, and they happened to occupy a peculiarly strategic geographic position in the world as it was at that time ruled and organized for trade.

          121:2.2 Many of the great highways joining the nations of antiquity passed through Palestine, which thus became the meeting place, or crossroads, of three continents. The travel, trade, and armies of Babylonia, Assyria, Egypt, Syria, Greece, Parthia, and Rome successively swept over Palestine. From time immemorial, many caravan routes from the Orient passed through some part of this region to the few good seaports of the eastern end of the Mediterranean, whence ships carried their cargoes to all the maritime Occident. And more than half of this caravan traffic passed through or near the little town of Nazareth in Galilee.

          121:2.3 Although Palestine was the home of Jewish religious culture and the birthplace of Christianity, the Jews were abroad in the world, dwelling in many nations and trading in every province of the Roman and Parthian states.

          121:2.4 Greece provided a language and a culture, Rome built the roads and unified an empire, but the dispersion of the Jews, with their more than two hundred synagogues and well-organized religious communities scattered hither and yon throughout the Roman world, provided the cultural centers in which the new gospel of the kingdom of heaven found initial reception, and from which it subsequently spread to the uttermost parts of the world.

          121:2.5 Each Jewish synagogue tolerated a fringe of gentile believers, "devout" or "God-fearing" men, and it was among this fringe of proselytes that Paul made the bulk of his early converts to Christianity. Even the temple at Jerusalem possessed its ornate court of the gentiles. There was very close connection between the culture, commerce, and worship of Jerusalem and Antioch. In Antioch Paul's disciples were first called "Christians."

          121:2.6 The centralization of the Jewish temple worship at Jerusalem constituted alike the secret of the survival of their monotheism and the promise of the nurture and sending forth to the world of a new and enlarged concept of that one God of all nations and Father of all mortals. The temple service at Jerusalem represented the survival of a religious cultural concept in the face of the downfall of a succession of gentile national overlords and racial persecutors.

          121:2.7 The Jewish people of this time, although under Roman suzerainty, enjoyed a considerable degree of self- government and, remembering the then only recent heroic exploits of deliverance executed by Judas Maccabee and his immediate successors, were vibrant with the expectation of the immediate appearance of a still greater deliverer, the long-expected Messiah.

          121:2.8 The secret of the survival of Palestine, the kingdom of the Jews, as a semi-independent state was wrapped up in the foreign policy of the Roman government, which desired to maintain control of the Palestinian highway of travel between Syria and Egypt as well as the western terminals of the caravan routes between the Orient and the Occident. Rome did not wish any power to arise in the Levant which might curb her future expansion in these regions. The policy of intrigue which had for its object the pitting of Seleucid Syria and Ptolemaic Egypt against each other necessitated fostering Palestine as a separate and independent state. Roman policy, the degeneration of Egypt, and the progressive weakening of the Seleucids before the rising power of Parthia, explain why it was that for several generations a small and unpowerful group of Jews was able to maintain its independence against both Seleucidae to the north and Ptolemies to the south. This fortuitous liberty and independence of the political rule of surrounding and more powerful peoples the Jews attributed to the fact that they were the "chosen people," to the direct interposition of Yahweh. Such an attitude of racial superiority made it all the harder for them to endure Roman suzerainty when it finally fell upon their land. But even in that sad hour the Jews refused to learn that their world mission was spiritual, not political.

          121:2.9 The Jews were unusually apprehensive and suspicious during the times of Jesus because they were then ruled by an outsider, Herod the Idumean, who had seized the overlordship of Judea by cleverly ingratiating himself with the Roman rulers. And though Herod professed loyalty to the Hebrew ceremonial observances, he proceeded to build temples for many strange gods.

          121:2.10 The friendly relations of Herod with the Roman rulers made the world safe for Jewish travel and thus opened the way for increased Jewish penetration even of distant portions of the Roman Empire and of foreign treaty nations with the new gospel of the kingdom of heaven. Herod's reign also contributed much toward the further blending of Hebrew and Hellenistic philosophies.

          121:2.11 Herod built the harbor of Caesarea, which further aided in making Palestine the crossroads of the civilized world. He died in 4 B.C., and his son Herod Antipas governed Galilee and Perea during Jesus' youth and ministry to A.D. 39. Antipas, like his father, was a great builder. He rebuilt many of the cities of Galilee, including the important trade center of Sepphoris.

          121:2.12 The Galileans were not regarded with full favor by the Jerusalem religious leaders and rabbinical teachers. Galilee was more gentile than Jewish when Jesus was born. UB 1955



          Caino

          "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

          Comment


          • Originally posted by faramir77 View Post
            When i fist read Urantia i was quite inspired, then i spent a good year looking into the who, what and why of it all, only to discover, as it all too common with gnostic anitchrist writings, found it failing, flawed and ultimatly meaningless thus unfulfilling.
            Wow, you spent a year looking it all over, huh? Well, who was the "who," and what was the "what," and why was the "why"? Did you find out? Can you tell us? Can you be specific? What do you mean, "gnostic antichrist" writings? Do you actually believe in an "anti-Christ"? It sounds like you're simply a Christian and that The Urantia Book is not for you. Just move on. Others are ready to take your place. You know, I have found that for people who generally write about The Urantia Book the way that you do, the bottom line is this, "The Urantia Book is false because it's not what I already believe." That's the bottom line. Tell the truth, isn't that where you're coming from? And what's "gnostic" about The Urantia Book? That's a silly, lame charge. There's nothing gnostic about it. I have a question, Did you actually READ The Urantia Book? I'm guessing that you did not. Am I right?

            There is no practical application to ones daily existance save to engender ego-pride in having been privledged to have been gifted with some special secret revaleation only attained by the highly intelligent, such as thyself.
            No, that's not true. It's free for anyone. For everyone. And of course the book says, "Of all human knowledge, that which is of greatest value is to know the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it." Do you remember reading that when you read the book? Yes, it's "new" information, but it's not for any "privileged" persons. Books are dirt cheap, $13.59 at Amazon.com for a 2000 page revelation from God with a free DVD of the complete audio reading. They are heavily subsidized to make them VERY affordable. Or one can read the book online for free at several sites. It's not "some special secret revaleation only attained by the highly intelligent" at all. Maybe you didn't "get it" but don't demean yourself like that.

            Can anything good come out from Chicago?
            You forgot the rest of the verse/quote:

            John 1:46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
            Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets" (Matthew 7:15), and then Paul showed up.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Caino View Post
              God alone knows whats in my heart and that I am saved.
              Sorry, but if you were, you'd realize that putting the words of a demon ahead of God's Word isn't something a saved person can do. The Holy Spirit is The One Who verifies His Word to those who believe. He doesn't verify lies.
              You presume to stand in judgment of me while claiming the Bible is "the Word", what a fool and a typical christian hypocrite!
              The Bible is The Words of God.
              And if you knew the Bible it says quite clearly that the Son of God is the word, not the Bible.
              There are three: The Written Words, The Living Word and His Spoken Word; all of which are Truth. The UB represents only lies.
              "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

              If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

              Comment


              • drive by shooters......

                Originally posted by Furchizedek View Post

                Wow, you spent a year looking it all over, huh? Well, who was the "who," and what was the "what," and why was the "why"? Did you find out? Can you tell us? Can you be specific? What do you mean, "gnostic antichrist" writings? Do you actually believe in an "anti-Christ"? It sounds like you're simply a Christian and that The Urantia Book is not for you. Just move on. Others are ready to take your place. You know, I have found that for people who generally write about The Urantia Book the way that you do, the bottom line is this, "The Urantia Book is false because it's not what I already believe." That's the bottom line. Tell the truth, isn't that where you're coming from? And what's "gnostic" about The Urantia Book? That's a silly, lame charge. There's nothing gnostic about it. I have a question, Did you actually READ The Urantia Book? I'm guessing that you did not. Am I right?
                Ignorance is really disempowering,...something only 'enlightenment' can remedy. It marvels me why any true seeker would not be open to accept truth in whatever packaging or format (conceptual frame) it appears in, seeing that truth comes to the planet in varying streams of light, inspiration....some having epochal significance. Those who mine the contents of a dispensational grant....can find those gems of spiritual insight and wisdom, otherwise they remain oblivious to a religionist who already assumes to know truth. The religious ego is perhaps the greatest obstacle to recognizing fresh and living truth.



                pj


                sigpic

                Our Real Nature
                freelight's cosmic cafe
                Free-light-Express

                ~*~*~
                Resource Nexus l Theosophical Studies l Esoteric School of Gnostic Wisdom l Sanatana Dharma lAdidaml Facebook l Thread Catalog & History

                Comment


                • Originally posted by freelight View Post
                  The amount of ignorance and religious presumption/egoity/exclusivity out there is amazing. A comprehensive and at least thorough research and understanding of what the Urantia Papers are and teach, their content, coverage and cosmology is at least essential to qualify one to critique the Papers,
                  And what qualities are required to accept the findings of such comprehensive critiques when they demonstrate that the Urantia book is a work of plagiarism that attributes scientific work to supernatural beings and gets a substantial amount wrong because it copied outdated science?

                  I'd say those critiques are denied by people who show qualities of ignorance, religious presumption, egoity and an exclusivity complex.

                  Stuart

                  Comment


                  • On another thread the issue of how God is portrayed in the OT writings of the Hebrews as compared to today's concepts of God.


                    RELIGION AND THE MORES

                    92:2.1 Religion is the most rigid and unyielding of all human institutions, but it does tardily adjust to changing society. Eventually, evolutionary religion does reflect the changing mores, which, in turn, may have been affected by revealed religion. Slowly, surely, but grudgingly, does religion (worship) follow in the wake of wisdom—knowledge directed by experiential reason and illuminated by divine revelation.

                    92:2.2 Religion clings to the mores; that which was is ancient and supposedly sacred. For this reason and no other, stone implements persisted long into the age of bronze and iron. This statement is of record: "And if you will make me an altar of stone, you shall not build it of hewn stone, for, if you use your tools in making it, you have polluted it." Even today, the Hindus kindle their altar fires by using a primitive fire drill. In the course of evolutionary religion, novelty has always been regarded as sacrilege. The sacrament must consist, not of new and manufactured food, but of the most primitive of viands: "The flesh roasted with fire and unleavened bread served with bitter herbs." All types of social usage and even legal procedures cling to the old forms.

                    92:2.3 When modern man wonders at the presentation of so much in the scriptures of different religions that may be regarded as obscene, he should pause to consider that passing generations have feared to eliminate what their ancestors deemed to be holy and sacred. A great deal that one generation might look upon as obscene, preceding generations have considered a part of their accepted mores, even as approved religious rituals. A considerable amount of religious controversy has been occasioned by the never-ending attempts to reconcile olden but reprehensible practices with newly advanced reason, to find plausible theories in justification of creedal perpetuation of ancient and outworn customs.

                    92:2.4 But it is only foolish to attempt the too sudden acceleration of religious growth. A race or nation can only assimilate from any advanced religion that which is reasonably consistent and compatible with its current evolutionary status, plus its genius for adaptation. Social, climatic, political, and economic conditions are all influential in determining the course and progress of religious evolution. Social morality is not determined by religion, that is, by evolutionary religion; rather are the forms of religion dictated by the racial morality.

                    92:2.5 Races of men only superficially accept a strange and new religion; they actually adjust it to their mores and old ways of believing. This is well illustrated by the example of a certain New Zealand tribe whose priests, after nominally accepting Christianity, professed to have received direct revelations from Gabriel to the effect that this selfsame tribe had become the chosen people of God and directing that they be permitted freely to indulge in loose sex relations and numerous other of their olden and reprehensible customs. And immediately all of the new-made Christians went over to this new and less exacting version of Christianity.

                    92:2.6 Religion has at one time or another sanctioned all sorts of contrary and inconsistent behavior, has at some time approved of practically all that is now regarded as immoral or sinful. Conscience, untaught by experience and unaided by reason, never has been, and never can be, a safe and unerring guide to human conduct. Conscience is not a divine voice speaking to the human soul. It is merely the sum total of the moral and ethical content of the mores of any current stage of existence; it simply represents the humanly conceived ideal of reaction in any given set of circumstances. UB 1955



                    Caino

                    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Stuu View Post
                      And what qualities are required to accept the findings of such comprehensive critiques when they demonstrate that the Urantia book is a work of plagiarism that attributes scientific work to supernatural beings and gets a substantial amount wrong because it copied outdated science?

                      I'd say those critiques are denied by people who show qualities of ignorance, religious presumption, egoity and an exclusivity complex.

                      Stuart

                      "The cosmology of these revelations is not inspired."

                      ACKNOWLEDGMENT


                      0:12.10 In formulating the succeeding presentations having to do with the portrayal of the character of the Universal Father and the nature of his Paradise associates, together with an attempted description of the perfect central universe and the encircling seven superuniverses, we are to be guided by the mandate of the superuniverse rulers which directs that we shall, in all our efforts to reveal truth and co-ordinate essential knowledge, give preference to the highest existing human concepts pertaining to the subjects to be presented. We may resort to pure revelation only when the concept of presentation has had no adequate previous expression by the human mind.

                      .......Accordingly, in making these presentations about God and his universe associates, we have selected as the basis of these papers more than one thousand human concepts representing the highest and most advanced planetary knowledge of spiritual values and universe meanings. Wherein these human concepts, assembled from the God-knowing mortals of the past and the present, are inadequate to portray the truth as we are directed to reveal it, we will unhesitatingly supplement them, for this purpose drawing upon our own superior knowledge of the reality and divinity of the Paradise Deities and their transcendent residential universe.


                      THE LIMITATIONS OF REVELATION

                      101:4.1 Because your world is generally ignorant of origins, even of physical origins, it has appeared to be wise from time to time to provide instruction in cosmology. And always has this made trouble for the future. The laws of revelation hamper us greatly by their proscription of the impartation of unearned or premature knowledge. Any cosmology presented as a part of revealed religion is destined to be outgrown in a very short time. Accordingly, future students of such a revelation are tempted to discard any element of genuine religious truth it may contain because they discover errors on the face of the associated cosmologies therein presented.

                      101:4.2 Mankind should understand that we who participate in the revelation of truth are very rigorously limited by the instructions of our superiors. We are not at liberty to anticipate the scientific discoveries of a thousand years. Revelators must act in accordance with the instructions which form a part of the revelation mandate. We see no way of overcoming this difficulty, either now or at any future time. We full well know that, while the historic facts and religious truths of this series of revelatory presentations will stand on the records of the ages to come, within a few short years many of our statements regarding the physical sciences will stand in need of revision in consequence of additional scientific developments and new discoveries. These new developments we even now foresee, but we are forbidden to include such humanly undiscovered facts in the revelatory records. Let it be made clear that revelations are not necessarily inspired. The cosmology of these revelations is not inspired. It is limited by our permission for the co-ordination and sorting of present-day knowledge. While divine or spiritual insight is a gift, human wisdom must evolve. UB 1955



                      Caino

                      "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Caino View Post
                        "The cosmology of these revelations is not inspired."

                        ACKNOWLEDGMENT


                        0:12.10 In formulating the succeeding presentations having to do with the portrayal of the character of the Universal Father and the nature of his Paradise associates, together with an attempted description of the perfect central universe and the encircling seven superuniverses, we are to be guided by the mandate of the superuniverse rulers which directs that we shall, in all our efforts to reveal truth and co-ordinate essential knowledge, give preference to the highest existing human concepts pertaining to the subjects to be presented. We may resort to pure revelation only when the concept of presentation has had no adequate previous expression by the human mind.

                        .......Accordingly, in making these presentations about God and his universe associates, we have selected as the basis of these papers more than one thousand human concepts representing the highest and most advanced planetary knowledge of spiritual values and universe meanings. Wherein these human concepts, assembled from the God-knowing mortals of the past and the present, are inadequate to portray the truth as we are directed to reveal it, we will unhesitatingly supplement them, for this purpose drawing upon our own superior knowledge of the reality and divinity of the Paradise Deities and their transcendent residential universe.


                        THE LIMITATIONS OF REVELATION

                        101:4.1 Because your world is generally ignorant of origins, even of physical origins, it has appeared to be wise from time to time to provide instruction in cosmology. And always has this made trouble for the future. The laws of revelation hamper us greatly by their proscription of the impartation of unearned or premature knowledge. Any cosmology presented as a part of revealed religion is destined to be outgrown in a very short time. Accordingly, future students of such a revelation are tempted to discard any element of genuine religious truth it may contain because they discover errors on the face of the associated cosmologies therein presented.

                        101:4.2 Mankind should understand that we who participate in the revelation of truth are very rigorously limited by the instructions of our superiors. We are not at liberty to anticipate the scientific discoveries of a thousand years. Revelators must act in accordance with the instructions which form a part of the revelation mandate. We see no way of overcoming this difficulty, either now or at any future time. We full well know that, while the historic facts and religious truths of this series of revelatory presentations will stand on the records of the ages to come, within a few short years many of our statements regarding the physical sciences will stand in need of revision in consequence of additional scientific developments and new discoveries. These new developments we even now foresee, but we are forbidden to include such humanly undiscovered facts in the revelatory records. Let it be made clear that revelations are not necessarily inspired. The cosmology of these revelations is not inspired. It is limited by our permission for the co-ordination and sorting of present-day knowledge. While divine or spiritual insight is a gift, human wisdom must evolve. UB 1955

                        Caino
                        Sorry but I did not see in this

                        ACKNOWLEDGMENT

                        the

                        ACKNOWLEDGMENT

                        of the

                        NAMES

                        of the

                        ACTUALLY EXISTING HUMAN SCIENTISTS

                        like

                        RUTHERFORD

                        or

                        EINSTEIN

                        who made the discoveries plagiarised in this book of plagiarism...

                        ..which is what

                        ACKNOWLEDGMENT

                        actually means.

                        Stuart

                        Comment


                        • Stuu,

                          It's strange that you get so angry about this crediting stuff. The UB does NOT claim to have discovered the science that Rutherford of Einstein realized. It has no interest in the world of scientific ego's and such.

                          The area's where science is catching up to the UB can be viewed at http://www.ubthenews.com/Reports_List.htm


                          Caino

                          "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Stuu View Post
                            Sorry but I did not see in this
                            ACKNOWLEDGMENT
                            the
                            ACKNOWLEDGMENT
                            of the
                            NAMES
                            of the
                            ACTUALLY EXISTING HUMAN SCIENTISTS
                            like
                            RUTHERFORD
                            or
                            EINSTEIN
                            who made the discoveries plagiarised in this book of plagiarism...
                            ..which is what
                            ACKNOWLEDGMENT
                            actually means.
                            Stuart
                            Stuart, could you please list the discoveries of Einstein that The Urantia Book plagiarizes?

                            How can you plagiarize a discovery?

                            Do you know what plagiarize means?

                            If I said that Columbus discovered America, am I plagiarizing Columbus?

                            What are you talking about?

                            Put up examples, be specific. Then we can talk about them.
                            Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets" (Matthew 7:15), and then Paul showed up.

                            Comment


                            • Stuart, are you a Christian?

                              If so, why don't you just say, "The Urantia Book is false because it's not what I already believe," and be done with it? That's really the bottom line for Christians, it's just not what they believe. Why pretend to wring your hands about plagiarism and what not? Did you get that idea from a Christian site? Post the exact cases of plagiarism, or admit that you haven't read the book and don't know what you're talking about. It's OK to do that.

                              Originally posted by Stuu View Post
                              And what qualities are required to accept the findings of such comprehensive critiques when they demonstrate that the Urantia book is a work of plagiarism that attributes scientific work to supernatural beings and gets a substantial amount wrong because it copied outdated science?

                              I'd say those critiques are denied by people who show qualities of ignorance, religious presumption, egoity and an exclusivity complex.

                              Stuart
                              Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets" (Matthew 7:15), and then Paul showed up.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                                The funny part is: not one single fact stated in The Bible has ever been disproved. It is by far the single most accurate record of ancient history, and doesn't have any errors in it. It isn't childish minds which accept It's Truths, but rather child-like trust with which we trust in our Father and God's Holy Word as perfect Truth, which The Holy Bible is. The lies in the UB, which were channeled by a demon, not only cannot be trusted, they provide an obviously childish attempt at discrediting the one true source of God's Word available to men: The Bible.
                                You gotta be really brainwashed to believe that!
                                Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets" (Matthew 7:15), and then Paul showed up.

                                Comment

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