What the Law and the Bible say about Homosexuality.

[Jacob]

I looked up the term sodomy last night and have a confession to make today. When I was a child I abused my little sister. I can say that this was sexually, but there was no sex. Sodomy includes oral sex so though there was no sex there was oral sex, forced. I have a lot to learn. I was just a child, but I live my life wanting to be punished by God and wondering if I will be punished by an earthly source of morality or authority. Now I have a term for what happened. It was with my sister. She is the victim to me the perpetrator. This may make it worse, but in a way for me it makes it better to say something. When I think of God's Law I think of how I am guilty, not how I am innocent. If there is a commandment I can comment on if I am guilty or not. There is a commandment not to sleep with your sister. Well, that did not happen, even with a tree house I think. So I have these Bible verses that I am thinking about.

Romans 1:32
and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

Proverbs 6:29
So is the one who goes in to his neighbor's wife;
Whoever touches her will not go unpunished.
​

My sister may marry some day. So I am guilty! It doesn't make any difference that I was just a child because I know what occurred. It was wrong and I am sorry for it. I am sorry to whoever one day may become her husband and make her his wife, if she chooses to get married.

Talking about these things in broad daylight? Sin.

Why on this thread are people trying to get away with or justify sodomy, when that is what it is? Sexual immorality, even if it were with a wife (I have never been married) instead of a sister in my father and mother's home.

I hope this serves as a warning rather than a justification to experiment sexually for anyone. To learn about this is evil, and there is a lot of that in this thread. We face some pretty dark evil stuff in this world. Don't give up on standing for the truth and living to the glory of God rather than for yourself and your own "satisfaction". Sure I would like to be satisfied some day, but maybe not sexually as this can only be self gratification or gratification of a sexual appetite even if I were married or am to become married.

To be sure the experience was not a welcome one and the evil involved in that act with my sister is something I have to stand before God about if not anyone else as well.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

You know you've won the debate when your oponent defends child molesters while comparing you to Nazis and Communists.

Good bye, Kit. You've earned a spot on my ignore list.

Actually the subject of that discussion was the balance between freedom, civil rights and law

 

[Kit the Coyote]

In America, the most horrible cities to live in are run by Democrats

Democrats today are socialists.
Democrats today are now for infanticide.
Democrats today support sexual deviants.
Democrats today molest the minds of children with sexual perversity.
Democrats today are for massive taxes.
Democrats today are anti-semite Jew haters and Muslim Fascist apologists.
Democrats today are everything that is wrong with America.

Democrats today are the embodiment of all that is evil.

Quite a broad brush you are painting with there.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Quite a broad brush you are painting with there.

Certainly not one that could be used for finer details...

 

[Arthur Brain]

Right and morals.

People think they have the right to disobey God, to go against His commandments, to break or transgress His Law. But they do not.

If you think legislation works better from the perspective of defending people's rights rather than a moral basis, what basis for law would you have that is not moral? It simply does not work to make laws that do not deal with morality. Why defend rights? What right need to be defended? A right to engage in sexual immorality? No. That is not a right that should be defended.

Rape, child molestation, bestiality are against the law and for glaringly obvious reasons. People have the right to engage in non married, adult relations without religious busybodies having any say in the matter.

 

[ok doser]

Rape, child molestation, bestiality are against the law and for glaringly obvious reasons.

many laws regarding rape were apparently written by retards

those laws regarding sexual contact with children that are based on concepts of "consent" are already failing

and you bailed like a coward (not saying you are a coward, only that you bailed like one ) when your argument regarding bestiality was dismantled

People have the right to engage in non married, adult relations ...

perhaps they do in crappy old england, but i challenge you to show that "right" enumerated in the US constitution

 

[Jacob]

Rape, child molestation, bestiality are against the law and for glaringly obvious reasons. People have the right to engage in non married, adult relations without religious busybodies having any say in the matter.

Some times it is okay to talk to other adults. Other times it is not okay.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Some times it is okay to talk to other adults. Other times it is not okay.

Sure, but religious cranks don't have any say in the relations of adults, married or otherwise and they'd be well advised to just mind their own.

 

[Jacob]

Sure, but religious cranks don't have any say in the relations of adults, married or otherwise and they'd be well advised to just mind their own.

I do not know what that means. What is a religious crank?

I would not talk with another man's wife unless I was absolutely sure it was okay to do.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I do not know what that means. What is a religious crank?

I would not talk with another man's wife unless I was absolutely sure it was okay to do.

Well, a religious crank would be someone who advocates stoning someone to death for being a homosexual in a homosexual relationship etc.

:e4e:

 

[Jacob]

Well, a religious crank would be someone who advocates stoning someone to death for being a homosexual in a homosexual relationship etc.

:e4e:

Does the Torah say to stone someone to death for being a homosexual in a homosexual relationship?

 

[Jacob]

Leviticus 18

Leviticus 18

The following is a chapter about crimes of sexual immorality from the book of Leviticus.

Leviticus 18:1-30 NASB - 1 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 2 "Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, 'I am the LORD your God. 3 'You shall not do what is done in the land of Egypt where you lived, nor are you to do what is done in the land of Canaan where I am bringing you; you shall not walk in their statutes. 4 'You are to perform My judgments and keep My statutes, to live in accord with them; I am the LORD your God. 5 'So you shall keep My statutes and My judgments, by which a man may live if he does them; I am the LORD. 6 'None of you shall approach any blood relative of his to uncover nakedness; I am the LORD. 7 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, that is, the nakedness of your mother. She is your mother; you are not to uncover her nakedness. 8 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife; it is your father's nakedness. 9 'The nakedness of your sister, [either] your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether born at home or born outside, their nakedness you shall not uncover. 10 'The nakedness of your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter, their nakedness you shall not uncover; for their nakedness is yours. 11 'The nakedness of your father's wife's daughter, born to your father, she is your sister, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 12 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister; she is your father's blood relative. 13 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother's sister, for she is your mother's blood relative. 14 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's brother; you shall not approach his wife, she is your aunt. 15 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son's wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 16 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother's wife; it is your brother's nakedness. 17 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, nor shall you take her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; they are blood relatives. It is lewdness. 18 'You shall not marry a woman in addition to her sister as a rival while she is alive, to uncover her nakedness. 19 'Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness during her menstrual impurity. 20 'You shall not have intercourse with your neighbor's wife, to be defiled with her. 21 'You shall not give any of your offspring to offer them to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God; I am the LORD. 22 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. 23 'Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion. 24 'Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these the nations which I am casting out before you have become defiled. 25 'For the land has become defiled, therefore I have brought its punishment upon it, so the land has spewed out its inhabitants. 26 'But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments and shall not do any of these abominations, [neither] the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you 27 (for the men of the land who have been before you have done all these abominations, and the land has become defiled); 28 so that the land will not spew you out, should you defile it, as it has spewed out the nation which has been before you. 29 'For whoever does any of these abominations, those persons who do [so] shall be cut off from among their people. 30 'Thus you are to keep My charge, that you do not practice any of the abominable customs which have been practiced before you, so as not to defile yourselves with them; I am the LORD your God.'"​

 

[Clete]

I am not trying to pick a fight or start an argument.

The point is that God made it illegal so man doesn't get to say that it is legal, whatever it is.

I do not believe that it is legal to murder babies.

Laws against sexual immorality are certainly not ceremonial laws if it makes a difference with determining if any nation follows or observes the Law of Moses. I have had difficulty with the term ceremonial law, but in general it is because I accept sacrifice as Biblical from Torah on.

Yes. Right.

Meaning that it has the potential to bring about a just death.

When I was a child I learned about this commandment in the back yard of my parents home. There were sticks under the tree, and I was not to pick them up on the Sabbath. Even if my parents did not tell me this, I knew, and I believe God was teaching me about it.







Okay.



Doesn't make sense to me. It is against God's Law. Just because someone thinks this does not make it true.

Meaning no one gets away with sin.

Exodus 34:7
who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.”

Proverbs 11:21
Assuredly, the evil man will not go unpunished,
But the descendants of the righteous will be delivered.

Jeremiah 30:11
‘For I am with you,' declares the LORD, ‘to save you;
For I will destroy completely all the nations where I have scattered you,
Only I will not destroy you completely.
But I will chasten you justly
And will by no means leave you unpunished.'

Jer 46:28
“O Jacob My servant, do not fear,” declares the LORD,
“For I am with you.
For I will make a full end of all the nations
Where I have driven you,
Yet I will not make a full end of you;
But I will correct you properly
And by no means leave you unpunished.”

Nahum 1:3
The LORD is slow to anger and great in power,
And the LORD will by no means leave the guilty unpunished.
In whirlwind and storm is His way,
And clouds are the dust beneath His feet.​

Commandments found in the Torah should be observed however they read there, whatever words or terms we use to describe them, such as saying capital punishment or the death penalty or execution. If a person is executed, it is according to Torah Law and not another way, to be in keeping with Torah Law or in keeping with Torah Law in keeping with Torah.



I don't know.

I don't know.

Nope.

Shame. Illegal activity.

Grace and then mercy triumphs over judgment. I think about where mercy and judgment kiss but I don't remember if this is what the Bible says or something like it. It is not excusing evil or withholding judgment perhaps I think. But then what is mercy?

Yep.




Shalom.

You have a good head on your shoulders Clete. Keep up the good work.

You would do yourself and everyone here a great favor if you would put some amount of effort into trying to say what you actually mean and to use your words more carefully.

The best I can tell, when you say that things like homosexuality and adultery are illegal, you mean that God still does not aprove of them and that they are therefore still immoral. But instead of saying that, you want to say that they are illegal. If that isn't what you mean then you have an entirely incorrect understanding of what the term 'legal' means.

Either way, I'm not interested in wasting my time trying to read your mind.

 

[Clete]

Does the Torah say to stone someone to death for being a homosexual in a homosexual relationship?

Read your own opening post and then you tell us.

 

[Clete]

Well, that's an objective source...lain:

You think Hitler and most of the Nazis were gay? You buy into the "Pink Swastika" bunk? You do realize that many homosexuals were murdered by the Nazi regime, right?

I never presented it as objective.

You'll never even attempt to refute a single syllable of a word on that list.

Even if you did make the attempt (which you won't) and were successful in refuting some individual point, you'd believe that you had refuted the entire thing or at the very least present it as such.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I never presented it as objective.

You'll never even attempt to refute a single syllable of a word on that list.

Even if you did make the attempt (which you won't) and were successful in refuting some individual point, you'd believe that you had refuted the entire thing or at the very least present it as such.

There's no need to refute biased bunk. "The Pink Swastika" alone is a piece of revisionist garbage penned by zealots with an obsession with homosexuality and roundly debunked by actual scholars of history.

 

[ok doser]

I never presented it as objective.

You'll never even attempt to refute a single syllable of a word on that list.

Even if you did make the attempt (which you won't) and were successful in refuting some individual point, you'd believe that you had refuted the entire thing or at the very least present it as such.

predictably, you're right :sigh:

 

[The Horn]

The Bible also condemns working on the Sabbath, even though not every religion agrees on which day should be the Sabbath . If you work on the Sabbath, you must be put to death .
Eating pork and shellfish . When was the last time any of you Christians at TOL protested at your local Red Lobster restaurant ?
Also, planting more than one crop on a field by farmers . Wearing clothes with more than one kind of fabric on them . Cutting your hair . Having tattoos .And so on .
Either follow the Bible to the letter, or leave gay people alone !

 

[ok doser]

The Bible also condemns working on the Sabbath, even though not every religion agrees on which day should be the Sabbath . If you work on the Sabbath, you must be put to death .
Eating pork and shellfish . When was the last time any of you Christians at TOL protested at your local Red Lobster restaurant ?
Also, planting more than one crop on a field by farmers . Wearing clothes with more than one kind of fabric on them . Cutting your hair . Having tattoos .And so on .
Either follow the Bible to the letter, or leave gay people alone !

i see where your confusion arises - you think we're arguing that homosexuality should be criminalized becase scripture demands it

we're not (at least I'm not)

my argument is that homosexuality should be criminalized because it, like adultery, divorce, abortion, etc are perversions of those things that God has given us

as for homosexuality specifically, it's exceedingly perverse to teach children that it is normal and it's exceedingly dangerous to children and society in general to have homosexuals welcomed into the general population where they can prey upon children

as for the rest of your silly strawman, it's been dismantled too many times to count and you never respond


:think: gee, it's almost as if you're more interested in trolling than engaging in a real discussion

 

[JudgeRightly]

The Bible also condemns working on the Sabbath, even though not every religion agrees on which day should be the Sabbath . If you work on the Sabbath, you must be put to death .
Eating pork and shellfish . When was the last time any of you Christians at TOL protested at your local Red Lobster restaurant ?
Also, planting more than one crop on a field by farmers . Wearing clothes with more than one kind of fabric on them . Cutting your hair . Having tattoos .And so on .
Either follow the Bible to the letter, or leave gay people alone !

Nice straw man! :thumb:

Unfortunately for your argument, it doesn't consider that such laws were given only to one nation, and not the whole world.

Morality, however, applies to ALL humans, not just one nation.

Homosexuality is IMMORAL, eating pork is not.