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Trump to declare National Emergency to build wall

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  • ok doser
    replied
    republicans are inherently trustworthy

    democrats are not

    Leave a comment:


  • Kit the Coyote
    replied
    Originally posted by ok doser View Post
    looks like we'll just have to be sure we never have another democrat president
    As the Republican is continuing the trend, I don't think it makes a difference.

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  • ok doser
    replied
    Originally posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    You can add the headache that this trend towards trying to bypass Congress started with President Obama and his 'pen and phone' comment. The Republicans were all over him for usurping power but that seems tame in comparison. This is a dangerous trend for American politics.
    looks like we'll just have to be sure we never have another democrat president

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  • Kit the Coyote
    replied
    Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
    It's a real headache for the republicans. First headache is that the wall is opposed by a large majority of Americans.

    Second headache is that it's going to end up in the courts for a long time, so Americans won't forget about it soon.

    Third headache is the thought of Elizabeth Warren able to bypass Congress by declaring emergencies.

    And keep in mind, George W. Bush's border fence? It's still mostly unbuilt. Legal tangles with emminent domain, Treaties with Mexico on flooding and structures on the Rio Grande, and so on.

    Should be interesting.
    You can add the headache that this trend towards trying to bypass Congress started with President Obama and his 'pen and phone' comment. The Republicans were all over him for usurping power but that seems tame in comparison. This is a dangerous trend for American politics.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Barbarian
    replied
    Originally posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    Or more likely fire the officers involved and hire new ones. So what if the police decided the courts were not doing their job and just decided to execute anyone they thought was guilty on the spot? After all, they have the legal right to use deadly force to protect the public. That is really a better example of what Trump is doing.
    That happens now. Not every day, but way more than it should.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Barbarian
    replied
    Originally posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    I will ask you a question: What if a police department decided to just stop helping people. What if all the officers got together and said: You know what? When we see crimes and we hear scream we are going to just keep on cruising down the street. We are not helping anybody.

    Would you say that in such a hypothetical situation, it would be the right of the people to rise up and defend themselves and make citizens' arrests?
    This actually happened, in the nation of Georgia. The president fired police. All of them. The country went through a period without any law enforcement at all.

    What happened? Nothing much. People mostly continued to obey the laws. Drivers learned to cooperate with each other in traffic. Eventually a new, uncorrupted police force took over.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Barbarian
    replied
    Originally posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    The key in your comment is "without a vote from Congress". The President's Emergency powers are quite sweeping and are intended to allow him to respond to an unforeseen emergency when there is not the time to consult with Congress and Congress to act. But here, he had time to consult Congress and Congress has acted. This is a direct usurpation of Congressional power by the Executive using a legal loophole.
    It's a real headache for the republicans. First headache is that the wall is opposed by a large majority of Americans.

    Second headache is that it's going to end up in the courts for a long time, so Americans won't forget about it soon.

    Third headache is the thought of Elizabeth Warren able to bypass Congress by declaring emergencies.

    And keep in mind, George W. Bush's border fence? It's still mostly unbuilt. Legal tangles with emminent domain, Treaties with Mexico on flooding and structures on the Rio Grande, and so on.

    Should be interesting.

    Leave a comment:


  • ok doser
    replied
    Too bad trad's not still with us

    Leave a comment:


  • Kit the Coyote
    replied
    Originally posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    I will ask you a question: What if a police department decided to just stop helping people. What if all the officers got together and said: You know what? When we see crimes and we hear scream we are going to just keep on cruising down the street. We are not helping anybody.

    Would you say that in such a hypothetical situation, it would be the right of the people to rise up and defend themselves and make citizens' arrests?
    Or more likely fire the officers involved and hire new ones. So what if the police decided the courts were not doing their job and just decided to execute anyone they thought was guilty on the spot? After all, they have the legal right to use deadly force to protect the public. That is really a better example of what Trump is doing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kit the Coyote
    replied
    "Repubs must not allow [The President] to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress,"
    A Republican who gets it.

    Someone else who gets it:
    We are a constitutional republic which grants Congress the power of the purse. This ensures democratically supervised expenditure of the people's money.


    Congress has said no to President Trump's border wall, and democratic authority matters. And by declaring a national emergency on a domestic policy issue in the traditional preserve of Congress, which makes this different than most other national emergencies, "future President Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez" now has a remit to bypass Congress to get her " Green New Deal."


    In short, this is good short-term politics for Trump, bad long-term politics for Republicans, and a bad precedent for the nation.
    Why, in 100 words, Trump is wrong to declare a national emergency
    Last edited by Kit the Coyote; February 15th, 2019, 05:14 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kit the Coyote
    replied
    Democrats with some Republicans passed a bill on Jan 3rd that included the following:

    • More than $1.3 billion for new fencing in the Rio Grande Valley and funding to replace secondary fencing in San Diego and other existing pedestrian fencing.
    • $366.5 million for border security technology.
    • $7.7 million to hire 328 additional U.S. Customs and Border Protection customs officers.
    • $224.6 million for "non-intrusive Inspection equipment" at ports of entry.
    • $7.08 billion for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

    Over $8 billion dollars to improve border security.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kit the Coyote
    replied
    Originally posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    Well, if you want to talk about the "spirit" of the way things should be done, I would point out that the Congress has turned its back on the American people and purposely left our borders wide open, and as a result we have have murder, rapes and drug trafficking. Pelosi has decided to say, screw the people, the illegal aliens are coming in.

    I will ask you a question: What if a police department decided to just stop helping people. What if all the officers got together and said: You know what? When we see crimes and we hear scream we are going to just keep on cruising down the street. We are not helping anybody.

    Would you say that in such a hypothetical situation, it would be the right of the people to rise up and defend themselves and make citizens' arrests?

    That is what Congress has done. We are in a crisis at the border and Pelosi wants to pretend there is none simply because of sheer hatred for Trump. Congress decided to not do its job. Trump has every right to use every trick in the book to defend the people and do what government is supposed to do.
    Congress offered to address all those things.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kit the Coyote
    replied
    Originally posted by ok doser View Post
    has congress demonstrated a willingness to address the emergency situation at the border?
    Yes, they have offered Trump up to what he asked for and more money wise for increasing border security, increasing the numbers of judges and border patrol agents, and some barrier funding in key places.

    Leave a comment:


  • CatholicCrusader
    replied
    Originally posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    Please note, my point has nothing to do with is it technically legal for him to do it. I will agree that the emergency powers are written in a way that makes it possible but that doesn't change the fact that it is an end-around of Congress and the spirit and intent of the balance of powers.
    Well, if you want to talk about the "spirit" of the way things should be done, I would point out that the Congress has turned its back on the American people and purposely left our borders wide open, and as a result we have have murder, rapes and drug trafficking. Pelosi has decided to say, screw the people, the illegal aliens are coming in.

    I will ask you a question: What if a police department decided to just stop helping people. What if all the officers got together and said: You know what? When we see crimes and we hear scream we are going to just keep on cruising down the street. We are not helping anybody.

    Would you say that in such a hypothetical situation, it would be the right of the people to rise up and defend themselves and make citizens' arrests?

    That is what Congress has done. We are in a crisis at the border and Pelosi wants to pretend there is none simply because of sheer hatred for Trump. Congress decided to not do its job. Trump has every right to use every trick in the book to defend the people and do what government is supposed to do.


    Leave a comment:


  • ok doser
    replied
    Originally posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    Please note, my point has nothing to do with is it technically legal for him to do it. I will agree that the emergency powers are written in a way that makes it possible but that doesn't change the fact that it is an end-around of Congress and the spirit and intent of the balance of powers.
    has congress demonstrated a willingness to address the emergency situation at the border?

    Leave a comment:

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