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  • Right Divider
    replied
    Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
    No. YE creationists are a small minority.
    I said nothing about that. Why do you reply to me with something that I did not say?

    Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Most Christians believe that the Bible means what it says.
    That is clearly false.

    Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Even YE creationists say that, but they don't mean it. They prefer their new revisions of the Bible to the way God did it.
    Nonsense, per your usual.

    I'm an old earth creationist... I think that the earth is very old. Perhaps even 10,000 years old.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Barbarian
    replied
    Barbarian observes:
    "The whole Earth" is your addition.

    Originally posted by Stripe View Post
    Nope.
    Yep. It's true. Here's the best excuse you could come up with:

    Genesis 6:7 So the Lord said: “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”

    As you already know, it doesn't say the whole earth. In fact, it says in the orginal "erets", which means "land" "this land", "a particular nation, such as "erets Israel" and so on. But it doesn't say "the whole Earth."

    You added that to make it more acceptable to you.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Barbarian
    replied
    Originally posted by Derf View Post
    To cut down on confusion, would you mind telling us what you think the bible is saying in the creation story. Please don't spare the details. If the whole story is too big a chunk to bite off at one time, can I suggest a couple verses?
    Sure.
    God made all things, including all living things.

    He made man's body naturally, as He made the bodies of all living things.

    But He directly gives each of us a living soul that makes all the difference.

    Humans were once innocent and did not know about good or evil.

    But the first two people who had living souls, defied God, and while gaining that knowledge and becoming like God, we were unable to be with God, because we unable to be fully good.

    Humans are thereby forced to work the land for our food, and human females have considerable pain in childbirth. Both consequences of becoming aware and like God.

    But we were left with the promise of a Redeemer.

    That's the message He intended for us. What the "days" were intended to represent, or the physical details of how Eve came to be, are not what He wants us to know.

    I disturbs me a bit that we as brothers in Christ are both saying that we are reading the words as written, but we are coming to completely different interpretations.
    It doesn't bother me, since we seem to be pretty close on the things that matter. If you or I don't get the other stuff exactly right, it really doesn't matter to our salvation.

    So, Barbarian, what do those three verses say, and on what points are you and YE creationists in conflict over them?

    [Gen 1:11 KJV] And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
    [Gen 1:12 KJV] And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
    [Gen 1:13 KJV] And the evening and the morning were the third day.
    God created life on Earth, by natural means, using pre-existing creation. Plants and animals. He created the other kingdoms as well, but of course no one at the time knew about them.

    And the "days" were about categories of creation, not literal days.

    Here's a question that might mean something. The Apostle's Creed is the statement of faith formulated by early Christians to identify what a real Christian was, in contrast to the gnostics and many other groups also claiming to follow Jesus.

    And yet, it has nothing about the fall,and nothing about why Jesus came to die for us. Keep in mind, this was first formulated during the persecutions.

    What does that have to do with the message in the creation story? I'd like to hear your ideas before I offer mine.
    Last edited by JudgeRightly; April 1, 2019, 12:50 AM.

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  • Stripe
    replied
    Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
    "The whole Earth" is your addition.
    Nope.
    So the Lord said: “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”
    Genesis 6:7 NKJV

    As you learned, even 1,500 years ago, Christians knew the days were periods that have evenings and mornings. Even without a sun.

    Do most Christians believe that? Yes, they do.
    Darwinists love believing they are in the majority. It's their No. 1 argument.

    It doesn't matter how old your modern revision is. The Bible says "evening and morning," "six days" and "the whole Earth."

    And you'll likely keep ignoring Fred's request. The thousands of times you got asked to describe what verses mean if they don't mean what they plainly say were also ignored.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Barbarian
    replied
    Originally posted by Stripe View Post
    Darwinists love believing that they are in the majority. It's their most compelling argument.

    The Bible says "evening and morning," "six days" and "the whole Earth."
    "The whole Earth" is your addition. And as you learned, even 1500 years ago, Christians knew the "days" weren't time periods, but categories of creation.

    Do most Christians believe that? Yes, they do.

    Barbarian prefers his modern revisions of the Bible.
    Your revision is no older than the last century. And the knowledge that six days of creation were allegorical is much, much older than that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Derf
    replied
    Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Most Christians who are old Earth point out that what God wants us to get from Genesis is not whether or not the days are time periods, but God's role as Creator, and our relationship with him, including our separation from Him as a result of becoming aware of good and evil without being able to be truly good.
    Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
    No. YE creationists are a small minority. Most Christians believe that the Bible means what it says. Even YE creationists say that, but they don't mean it. They prefer their new revisions of the Bible to the way God did it.
    To cut down on confusion, would you mind telling us what you think the bible is saying in the creation story. Please don't spare the details. If the whole story is too big a chunk to bite off at one time, can I suggest a couple verses? I'm picking these pretty much at random, so if you'd rather take a couple different ones, I'm ok with that.

    [Gen 1:11 KJV] And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
    [Gen 1:12 KJV] And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
    [Gen 1:13 KJV] And the evening and the morning were the third day.

    I disturbs me a bit that we as brothers in Christ are both saying that we are reading the words as written, but we are coming to completely different interpretations.

    So, Barbarian, what do those three verses say, and on what points are you and YE creationists in conflict over them?

    You'll notice that I've used the KJV translation. If that is too recent a revision, please provide a more suitable English translation.

    Thanks!
    Derf

    Leave a comment:


  • Stripe
    replied
    Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
    YE creationists are a small minority.
    Darwinists love believing that they are in the majority. It's their most compelling argument.

    Most Christians believe that the Bible means what it says.
    The Bible says "evening and morning," "six days" and "the whole Earth."

    Do most Christians believe that?

    We know you don't.

    Even YE creationists say that.
    It's easier for us.

    But they don't mean it.
    "I don't like this tiger, he reads minds."

    Barbarian prefers his modern revisions of the Bible.



    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:


  • James.Roberts
    replied
    Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Most Christians who are old Earth point out that what God wants us to get from Genesis is not whether or not the days are time periods, but God's role as Creator, and our relationship with him, including our separation from Him as a result of becoming aware of good and evil without being able to be truly good.
    Well said.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Barbarian
    replied
    Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
    "Most Christians" don't really believe that the Bible means what it says. They pick and choice what they want to believe based on their opinions.
    No. YE creationists are a small minority. Most Christians believe that the Bible means what it says. Even YE creationists say that, but they don't mean it. They prefer their new revisions of the Bible to the way God did it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Right Divider
    replied
    Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Most Christians who are old Earth point out that what God wants us to get from Genesis is not whether or not the days are time periods, but God's role as Creator, and our relationship with him, including our separation from Him as a result of becoming aware of good and evil without being able to be truly good.
    "Most Christians" don't really believe that the Bible means what it says. They pick and choice what they want to believe based on their opinions.

    Leave a comment:

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