Scientists Question Darwinism
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I don't think the following necessarily implies that the fish who have been here for millions of years were destroyed before the first day spoken of at Genesis 1:5:
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day" (Gen.1:5).
The description of the condition of the created earth at Genesis 1:2 must be a result of some event which changed the way that the earth was originally created:
"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited" (Isa.45:18).
I believe that what is said in "bold" in the following statement refers to the earth being inhabited before it was in a state described as being without form:
"Of the origin of our world the first chapter of Genesis tells us nothing save that 'in the beginning,' whenever that was, God 'created' it. It may be, as Tyndall said in his Belfast address, that 'for eons embracing untold millions of years, this earth has been the theatre of life and death.' But as to this the 'Mosaic narrative' is silent. It deals merely with the renewing and refurnishing of our planet as a home for man" (Sir Robert Anderson, A DOUBTER'S DOUBTS about science and religion).
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The phrase "evening and morning were in the first day" is only speaking about the time of darkness and that part of the day does not make a whole day. Besides, the word "evening" at Genesis 1:15 certainly means that there was a part of the day in light prior to the evening because the word evening means the ending of the part of the day in light.
According to you evening started the day despite the fact that the word meaning cannot be understood apart from the daylight portion of the day which precedes it.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I told you exactly what can be read into your remark that the LORD created fish. The word "created" does not always mean to make something out of nothing. The fish could have been made out of the dust of the earth just as man was made out of the dust of the earth when the LORD created him.
Right Divider
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Dark... then LET THERE BE LIGHT... seems like the order is fine.
Once AGAIN Jerry, "evening and morning the Xth day".... these all describe simply A SINGLE DAY. It just as simple as that.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Where does the "afternoon" fit in the "evening and morning"?
Right Divider
Body part
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you.
Are you saying that the day began at evening and ended in the morning?
If not, then when do you say that it begins and ends?
Days in the Bible start and end at sunrise, not midnight.
"And there was evening, and there was morning, day one/the second/third/fourth/fifth/sixth day..." is at the end of every day, and signifies the start of the next day.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
First of all, this quote of yours has the day ending in the morning and not at sunrise--"And there was evening, and there was morning, day one."
Secondly, by the time of the passover in Egypt the Scriptual evidence demonstrates that the day began at sunrise and not at sunset.
Right Divider
Body part
No... again... I'm saying that "evening and morning the Xth day" is simply stating that it was a normal day (one day).
The "evening and morning" is NOT trying to express any order or anything else.
Jerry, are you actually that dense?
Read my post again, then read yours. Where is the contradiction in what you just said to what I just said.
Is not sunrise in the morning?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
A "normal" day starts and ends at the same time. If it starts in the evening then it will end as the next evening approaches. If it begins in the morning then it will end as the next morning approaches.
It makes no sense to say that the following describes a "normal" day--"evening and morning the Xth day."
I think that it is describing the end of the day as being in the morning. And the following verse supports that idea:
"In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre" (Mt.28:1).
As the sabbath was ending the two Marys came to the tomb as it was dawning (when the sun was coming up; Mk.16:2) toward the first day of the week. That can only mean that a new day was about to begin when the sun came up in the morning.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Here is what you said:
From the quote you provided I can only surmise that you are saying that the day began at evening. But if the day starts in the evening then that same day will end as it approaches evening. But the quote you prove has it ending in the "morning":
"And there was evening, and there was morning, day one."
A. Dillman explains what is said at Genesis 1:3-4 in the following way:
"When day-time had passed, the period allotted to darkness returned (and there was evening), and when night-time came to an end the light held sway a second time (and there was morning) and this completed the first calendar day (one day), which had begun with the creation of light."
I did not say the "same day." I simply said that a day began and ended at morning in the Bible.
If that had been ALL that I had said, then yes, you would be correct.
But that's not all that I said.
I also said that days START AND END at morning. I did not say "start and end at the same morning." I did not say "start and end on the same day."
The latter two are you reading something into what I said that I did not say.
I have no idea who Dillman is, nor do I really care.
Scripture says and there was evening, and there was morning, day one/second/third/fourth/fifth/sixth.
Scripture also shows that the biblical day began at morning and ended at the start of the next morning, and not at midnight, like we count today.
ERGO
"Evening and morning" is describing the END of a day, and the start of the next.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So look at these words which speak of day one and tell me when it started:
"And there was evening, and there was morning, day one."
I say that it began when the following passage says "and there was light."
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day" (Gen.3-5).
When do you say that "day one" began?
Which is additional material to "God made the world." There is more to Genesis 1 than the constraints of your quote.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Let us look at what follows "God created the heaven and the earth:
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day" (Gen.1:5).
The description of the condition of the created earth at Genesis 1:2 must be a result of some event which changed the way that the earth was originally created:
"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited" (Isa.45:18).
I believe that what is said in "bold" in the following statement refers to the earth being inhabited before it was in a state described as being without form:
"Of the origin of our world the first chapter of Genesis tells us nothing save that 'in the beginning,' whenever that was, God 'created' it. It may be, as Tyndall said in his Belfast address, that 'for eons embracing untold millions of years, this earth has been the theatre of life and death.' But as to this the 'Mosaic narrative' is silent. It deals merely with the renewing and refurnishing of our planet as a home for man" (Sir Robert Anderson, A DOUBTER'S DOUBTS about science and religion).
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I don't care.
This is flat out false. For example, Genesis 1 also tells us that creation took six days.
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the earth.
Start of creation.
Genesis 1:5
God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.
End of day one, beginning of the second day.
Jesus affirmed what Moses wrote by saying the following:
But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ - Mark 10:6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark10:6&version=NKJV
"From the beginning of creation."
Day 6 is at the beginning of the creation if Day One started "in the beginning" (Genesis 1:1)
If Day One started in verse 5, and there is an untold amount of time between verse 1 and verse 5, then Jesus is a liar, because day 6 wouldn't really be day 6 of what we call the creation week.
Moses said in Exodus 20:
For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. - Exodus 20:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus20:11&version=NKJV
Moses, in Genesis 1, said:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. - Genesis 1:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis1:1&version=NKJV
There's a parallel between those two verses that IS NOT present in verse 5.
Do you know what a synecdoche is?