Becoming a Judge while believing the gospel.

[Jacob]

Becoming a Judge while believing the gospel. One thing that I have desired to do is to become a judge. You may have a similar aspiration or advice in regard to this. The world needs just judgment, I believe.

This must have something to do with government if judges and courts do. It has to do with religion because it is found in the Bible.

Some people believe that the Law has been abolished.

People wrestle with their sin and being condemned or judged for it, for what is justice if a person is not judged for their sin, with right judgment? Could this even be for me a person who desires to be a judge?

There are judges in the Bible. A book of the Bible is called Judges. In the Torah and Israel judges render the decision of God, which should not be deviated from.

Can you believe in the grace of God? What about the New Covenant? If a person is not under the Law can they be a Judge in regard to the Law?

Judges render decisions based on the law. They do not create law.

God’s Law and the laws of the nations.

There is Noahide Law, which includes the establishment of courts. And there is the Law of Moses specifically for the Nation of Israel. Both come from God.

Do you have any thoughts on any of the above?

 

[Jacob]

Paul said, "For what have I to do with judging outsiders?"

(1 Cor 5:12–13 ESV) 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

Does this prohibit Jews and Christians from becoming judges of Israel or the land in which they live? Is this speaking of a different kind of judgment or of judgment commensurate to or with knowledge? If a person does something that is known to them to be wrong then it is wrong?

Romans 14:23, “Whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.”

Romans 6:15-23 New International Version (NIV)
Slaves to Righteousness
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

19 I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord.

Footnotes:
Romans 6:23 Or through

 

[The Horn]

Well, it's fine to believe in the Gospel if you do . But US judges are required to make decisions based on US law, not their private religious beliefs . If you can't keep your religion out of your duties as a judge whatever the position however high or low in the US judicial system, you shouldn't be a judge .
It's the same in politics . It's fine to be a Christian and believe in the gospel , but if you can't keep your religion out of your politics, you shouldn't
be running for any kind of political office , especially the presidency or vice presidency .
America is not a Christian theocracy - yet . In Iran and Saudi Arabia, politics and the courts are run by theocrats . Not a good idea for America.

 

[Jacob]

Well, it's fine to believe in the Gospel if you do . But US judges are required to make decisions based on US law, not their private religious beliefs . If you can't keep your religion out of your duties as a judge whatever the position however high or low in the US judicial system, you shouldn't be a judge .
It's the same in politics . It's fine to be a Christian and believe in the gospel , but if you can't keep your religion out of your politics, you shouldn't
be running for any kind of political office , especially the presidency or vice presidency .
America is not a Christian theocracy - yet . In Iran and Saudi Arabia, politics and the courts are run by theocrats . Not a good idea for America.

Are you saying that God's Law for the Jew should be kept out of US Courts?

To what extent does God's Law inform a judge about what is right? Also, you mentioned Christians, of which I might be one, and definitely have been. Are Christians rather subject to US Law, or are you simply acknowledging that Christians are not criminals or under the Law? To live in society but not be allowed to participate might not make sense. Maybe Christians don't want to participate in the court system.

 

[Jacob]

The Smallest Law Courts

The Smallest Law Courts

How about the following about the smallest law courts? It appears that Christians are to have their own courts.

1 Corinthians 6:1-8 NASB - 1 Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints? 2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent [to] [constitute] the smallest law courts? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life? 4 So if you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church? 5 I say [this] to your shame. [Is it] so, [that] there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between his brethren, 6 but brother goes to law with brother, and that before unbelievers? 7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. [You do] this even to [your] brethren.

 

[Jonahdog]

This guy has got to be a troll.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

Are you saying that God's Law for the Jew should be kept out of US Courts?

Depends on what you mean by 'kept out'. If you are mean as a basis of philosophical considerations concerning the Judge's views of right or wrong? no. If you mean as a basis of making legal judgements and evaluations of the law, absolutely! The legal and only authority for US Federal law is the US Constitution and the US Code that devolves from it.

To what extent does God's Law inform a judge about what is right? Also, you mentioned Christians, of which I might be one, and definitely have been. Are Christians rather subject to US Law, or are you simply acknowledging that Christians are not criminals or under the Law? To live in society but not be allowed to participate might not make sense. Maybe Christians don't want to participate in the court system.

If a judge is a Christian, then God's Law likely plays an important role in their moral and legal philosophy. And all Judges likely consider it along with all historical legal systems in their legal philosophy.

US Citizens are subject to US Law and that is the only legal system that US courts can apply in a legal judgment of them. Now if they happen to also be subject to God's Law, that is an issue that would be addressed in another court system.

The Constitution and the legal system based on it cannot apply God's Law directly. It is possible to apply elements of God's Law into the US legal system but it has to be done through the same legislative process that all laws must go through.

 

[john w]

Do you have any thoughts on any of the above?

 

[The Horn]

What the heck is "God's law for the Jew "? Unless you mean not be allowed to eat pork and shellfish . Sorry, these things are not illegal to consume in America , not should they be .
And remember- Jews never try to stop non-jews from eating these things .
My rights should not be based on the subjective and arbitrary beliefs of Christians as to which parts of the Bible they chose to believe in . Not those of nay other non-christian in America .
I don't tell Christians what they may or may not do because I have no right to do this .

 

[Jacob]

Two comments.

One, some simply say that the government allows Christians to do what they do because they are living according to a higher law or are not doing anything to break the law, certainly they are not criminals.

Two, our country was founded on Christian principles. So, saying that we have a secular government in that it was created and provided for by our constitution, or that democracy is not the best but it works or something like that, allows for government to be what it is and persons or personal convictions to be religious or called or classified as religion even if personal.

All of this to say that yes if there is another court for that (read in the thread) there might also be allowance for religion or religious principles in our founding that should be considered even as we say that a Christian cannot be a judge (false, right?) or that an individual person should not be concerned with being or becoming a judge when their religious views are involved. Well, I say that a Jew or a Christian can have their religious convictions and predispositions. And one might become a judge. This is really no problem. It is not a problem. But Paul may be speaking not of the one who judges the outsider but that Christianity or Israel are not about unbelievers.

 

[Jacob]

What the heck is "God's law for the Jew "? Unless you mean not be allowed to eat pork and shellfish . Sorry, these things are not illegal to consume in America , not should they be .
And remember- Jews never try to stop non-jews from eating these things .
My rights should not be based on the subjective and arbitrary beliefs of Christians as to which parts of the Bible they chose to believe in . Not those of nay other non-christian in America .
I don't tell Christians what they may or may not do because I have no right to do this .

There is a reason that we don't tell unbelievers what they can and cannot eat.

Are you familiar with the Resident of Israel? Do you know about Noahide Laws and the Law of Moses the Law of the Nation of Israel for all natives and proselytes and those who dwell in the land?

God's Law for the Jew means that though the United States of America can participate in elements of God's Law, Torah Law, such as the feasts and holy days or keeping kosher or wearing tzitzit, etc... not all people living here are required to. It means that we keep our law without forcing others to do so, but also that they may not be required to, as with the feasts. You must be of Israel to participate in Passover. Not all recognize this, but it is not often said.

 

[Jacob]

Thank you john w. That is a neat picture of a judge.

 

[Jacob]

Depends on what you mean by 'kept out'. If you are mean as a basis of philosophical considerations concerning the Judge's views of right or wrong? no. If you mean as a basis of making legal judgements and evaluations of the law, absolutely! The legal and only authority for US Federal law is the US Constitution and the US Code that devolves from it.



If a judge is a Christian, then God's Law likely plays an important role in their moral and legal philosophy. And all Judges likely consider it along with all historical legal systems in their legal philosophy.

US Citizens are subject to US Law and that is the only legal system that US courts can apply in a legal judgment of them. Now if they happen to also be subject to God's Law, that is an issue that would be addressed in another court system.

The Constitution and the legal system based on it cannot apply God's Law directly. It is possible to apply elements of God's Law into the US legal system but it has to be done through the same legislative process that all laws must go through.

How you live and what judgment you make might be different, yes or no? Can you be consistent with what you believe? And, to what standard? Do you believe that we can go no higher in law than God's Law? Thank you for your comments. What is your contention? You have spoken of US law.

 

[Jacob]

This guy has got to be a troll.

Shalom.

Welcome.

 

[john w]

Thank you john w. That is a neat picture of a judge.

I do not understand what you are saying.

 

[Jacob]

I do not understand what you are saying.

It's okay because I did not make sure of that.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

All of this to say that yes if there is another court for that (read in the thread) there might also be allowance for religion or religious principles in our founding...

Yes, the First Amendment is the primary result of such allowances.

...that should be considered even as we say that a Christian cannot be a judge (false, right?) or that an individual person should not be concerned with being or becoming a judge when their religious views are involved.

This is incorrect and if you are aware of such a case then you should rightly protest it. The Constitution strictly forbids denying someone a position in office (this includes judges) based solely on their religious beliefs. Article VI, Clause 3, No Religious Test Clause.

It was this and the First Amendment that led to the Supreme Court to rule in Torcaso v. Watkins that

We repeat and again reaffirm that neither a State nor the Federal Government can constitutionally force a person "to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion." Neither can constitutionally pass laws or impose requirements which aid all religions as against non-believers, and neither can aid those religions based on a belief in the existence of God as against those religions founded on different beliefs

Well, I say that a Jew or a Christian can have their religious convictions and predispositions. And one might become a judge. This is really no problem. It is not a problem.

Correct.

 

[john w]

It's okay because I did not make sure of that.

I do not understand what you mean.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

How you live and what judgment you make might be different, yes or no?

Yes

Can you be consistent with what you believe?

Yes

And, to what standard?

I would assume the standard that you hold yourself to.

Do you believe that we can go no higher in law than God's Law?

What would be higher than that? But in the context of this discussion, the question is of little relevance.

Thank you for your comments. What is your contention? You have spoken of US law.

I grew up in the US and US law is what I have to work with. In the US, the courts are secular institutions that operate inside the context of the US Constitution, US Code, State Constitutions and State codes. The religious views of a judge are not relevant under this system as long as they operate inside that context. The same system forbids the banning or denying a judge their office based solely on their belief or not in the Gospel.

 

[Jacob]

Yes, the First Amendment is the primary result of such allowances.



This is incorrect and if you are aware of such a case then you should rightly protest it. The Constitution strictly forbids denying someone a position in office (this includes judges) based solely on their religious beliefs. Article VI, Clause 3, No Religious Test Clause.

It was this and the First Amendment that led to the Supreme Court to rule in Torcaso v. Watkins that




Correct.

Yes



Yes



I would assume the standard that you hold yourself to.



What would be higher than that? But in the context of this discussion, the question is of little relevance.



I grew up in the US and US law is what I have to work with. In the US, the courts are secular institutions that operate inside the context of the US Constitution, US Code, State Constitutions and State codes. The religious views of a judge are not relevant under this system as long as they operate inside that context. The same system forbids the banning or denying a judge their office based solely on their belief or not in the Gospel.

Thank you. I do not know a case. I do wonder if someone giving me a scitzophrenia diagnosis would keep me from being a judge and making a decision based on God's Law, which diagnosis I do not agree with.

But now about other people. We rejoice when judges make the right decisions.

Your words are good news.

What about the Ten Commandments?

A judge can believe the gospel, good.

Do we accept that believers understand God's Law while others may not?

Anything else?