Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

If Mr. Trump was a Democrat

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by Lon View Post

    You mean like Bill Clinton who was involved in scandal after scandal and probably guilty by direct or indirect involvement in the hush-murders of fellow white-water members? Of course there were calls to have him removed from office, but it isn't fair to see one poor president and forget another, is it? My hope is not in politics or politicians. I genuinely did like Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, and George H. Bush (and Gerald Ford), however.
    Amazing, isn't he?

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
      Obama:
      None.


      Where is the evidence for a global flood?
      E≈mc2
      "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

      "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
      -Bob B.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post

        Well, one real one, at least. You keep score on these things by the number of presidential appointees indicted, convicted or pardoned for crimes committed in office. Here's the score:

        Obama:
        None. David Petraeus was indicted for an improper release of classified material, but he was a Bush holdover.
        Incorrect. The reason we don't hold past presidents accountable is 1) water under the bridge 2) the shadow cast on our nation etc. Kennedy was no angel. You and I BOTH know that. If you want to special plead and forget the log in one eye opposed to another, that's your prerogative but we REALLY should see Trump in historical context. You know what "I" see as a contrast? That he is a republican. I think, for the most part, we've not been kind to Presidents with failures. There is some good, in looking back over the failures of past presidents. We really have to focus on accomplishments too!

        Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
        George W. Bush:
        Scott Bloch, perjury.
        Scooter Libby, perjury, obstruction of justice
        J. Stephen Grimes, obstruction of justice
        John Korsmo, lying to Congress
        David Safavian, blocking justice and lying to federal investigators
        Roger Stillwell sentenced for coverup in Abrahamoff scandal
        J. Stephen Griles, Obstruction of Justice
        Jared Carpenter, tax evasion related to Abrahamoff scandal.
        Mark Zachares conspiracy to defraud, Abrahamoff scandal
        Robert Coughlin conflict of interest after accepting bribes
        Kyle Foggo, honest services fraud
        Lester Crawford, convicted of conflict of interest.
        Bernard Kerick, nominated for secretary of homeland security. Convicted of lying to federal government agents
        Again, is it good to ONLY look at one parties' failures?

        Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
        Clinton:
        Bill Clinton, not actually convicted of anything, but had to surrender his law license for his statements about an affair with an aide.
        Ronald Blackley, perjury
        Doreen Druyun, inflating contracts for future employer

        I left out a few indictments for several presidents, because the crime had nothing to do with anything in government, such as domestic violence, or personal income tax fraud not associated with anything in the perp's official duties. You probably don't want to see all the Trump crooks so far caught, but if you like, I can list them, again.
        Fair, but is the defense "At least he isn't as bad as" or "it was never proven?"


        Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
        As you know, republican special investigators found that Clinton was a victim in the Whitewater scandal, not a perpetrator. He lost money in the scam. As you should know, several of the "whitewater deaths" were associated with a drug-running scheme involving the Contras and Reagan officials. Would you like to see that?
        Right, and Epstein killed himself...? I acquiesce conspiracy theories aren't but discussion points.

        Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
        Which other "whitewater deaths" do you have evidence showing Clinton involvement?
        There have been several 'theories.' At the very least, I do question their scruples and morals. There is good evidence their funds are involved in shady deals, deleted emails, collusion with Obama (evidenced in declassified data) etc. Do I mean to cast all dispersion on the Clinton's? No, just saying that stabbing at moralities of any president current is 1) just current events and 2) seated in a larger discussion. I'm not sure it is a good talking point, though it is certainly of precedence (political mudslinging).

        Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
        Lying about sex is a pretty bad thing, but as you probably remember, most Americans didn't see it as a disqualifier for president.

        I'm not sure 'most' Americans believe that. Sentiment is different than legalities. It seems we'd have had a LOT of vice presidents stepping up in history if it were a factor.

        The main point in thread is that we not point a finger at one fault in a president, if we ignore the same or similar in one of our preferred party (I've left any particular party ship but I do vote for republicans more often).
        My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
        Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
        Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
        Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
        No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
        Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

        ? Yep

        Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

        ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

        Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Lon View Post
          Incorrect. The reason we don't hold past presidents accountable is 1) water under the bridge 2) the shadow cast on our nation etc.
          For anyone with even a slight attachment to reality, it comes down to evidence.

          Kennedy was no angel. You and I BOTH know that.
          I don't know of any humans who are. Still, evidence is required.

          If you want to special plead and forget the log in one eye opposed to another,
          I'm just using the same yardstick for all of them. Actual cases of presidential appointees, indicted, convicted, or pardoned for crimes in the course of their duties. If you think that's too hard on republicans, then the problem is not with me showing it to you.

          that's your prerogative but we REALLY should see Trump in historical context.
          I'd be happy to show you the same measurement for Trump, using the same rules. You want me to show you?

          You know what "I" see as a contrast? That he is a republican.
          I'm skeptical. George H.W. Bush ran a relatively clean administration, as did Gerald Ford.

          I think, for the most part, we've not been kind to Presidents with failures.
          I notice that Ford, Carter, and George W. Bush are generally well-liked today, even if they weren't very good presidents.

          Fair, but is the defense "At least he isn't as bad as" or "it was never proven?"
          We should simply ignore the stuff that lacks evidence. And yes, we should compare presidents against their fellow presidents, not angels.

          Right, and Epstein killed himself...?
          Considering Trump was one of his pals, and there is considerable evidence that Trump was complicit in some of Epstein's activities, and considering who had control of the federal prison system at the time, I'm a little skeptical. Who had the motive and the opportunity? Yep.

          The main point in thread is that we not point a finger at one fault in a president, if we ignore the same or similar in one of our preferred party
          I'm just showing you how the records compare. Apples to apples.



          This message is hidden because ...

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post

            Fust using the same yardstick for all of them. Actual cases of presidential appointees, indicted, convicted, or pardoned for crimes in the course of their duties. If you think that's too hard on republicans, then the problem is not with me showing it to you.
            In addition to appointees, it's worth noting that Trump's last three campaign managers have all been arrested...



            Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by annabenedetti View Post

              In addition to appointees, it's worth noting that Trump's last three campaign managers have all been arrested...
              Click image for larger version

Name:	?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi5.walmartimages.com%2Fasr%2F5276d469-ab16-4c75-b190-7e8494664482_1.f0e7ba58ff9bf8b12dfe343fd25976cf.jpeg&f=1&nofb=1.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	109.3 KB
ID:	2772343
              "My Appointees Get Arrested"
              This message is hidden because ...

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by annabenedetti View Post
                Trump's last three campaign managers have all been arrested.
                For what?
                Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                E≈mc2
                "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                -Bob B.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post

                  For anyone with even a slight attachment to reality, it comes down to evidence.
                  No surprise, we both disagree. There is a genuine distaste in bringing charges on any president. Both sides are noticeable during attempted impeachment. Anyone with an education and a strong ability to self-reflect will see that it is as bad (literally) to side with one group as the other because it simply pits two parties. I don't like being duped and I don't like doing something 'we did last year in a different party." Patterns are hard to break from, but it is why I'm not democrat or republican at present. I don't want to be a dupe, a cog in a wheel.



                  Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                  I don't know of any humans who are. Still, evidence is required.
                  There is plenty of evidence for things. It doesn't always mean indictments.

                  Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                  I'm just using the same yardstick for all of them. Actual cases of presidential appointees, indicted, convicted, or pardoned for crimes in the course of their duties. If you think that's too hard on republicans, then the problem is not with me showing it to you.
                  I'm just saying it is both sides.

                  Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                  I'd be happy to show you the same measurement for Trump, using the same rules. You want me to show you?
                  Impeachments are difficult. We've not managed to do it often in history.



                  I'm skeptical. George H.W. Bush ran a relatively clean administration, as did Gerald Ford.
                  Yes, but Nixon...etc. I've left room. The goal is to get us all thinking about what does and does not apply to both sides because as the years roll by, there is a noticeable pattern.



                  I notice that Ford, Carter, and George W. Bush are generally well-liked today, even if they weren't very good presidents.
                  You don't think Ford did well? He just wasn't elected but I think he was a good president.



                  We should simply ignore the stuff that lacks evidence. And yes, we should compare presidents against their fellow presidents, not angels.
                  Agree. Maybe you are more partisan than other Democrats. I do think I'm a hypocrite, to a degree. I didn't defend Obama or Clinton. I voted for, but was sorry, about George W.



                  Considering Trump was one of his pals, and there is considerable evidence that Trump was complicit in some of Epstein's activities, and considering who had control of the federal prison system at the time, I'm a little skeptical. Who had the motive and the opportunity? Yep.
                  It's a talking point rather than an investigation. While I don't think a public investigation serves us well, I'd like to see some of these carried out in private, where we the people get rather just a verdict and perhaps declassification after they've passed on. There are probably better ideas out there, I'm old-school. I liked my news a bit more censored, it is just that no news source does well with that any more. It used to be 'scrupples' but now it is about staying alive in a competitive business so I empathize, just wish a few news sources went back to Old-school. I guess the 700 Club, but some would balk at that and I'm not charismatic.....



                  Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                  I'm just showing you how the records compare. Apples to apples.


                  Sure, its an 'what if' thread so it coaxes the speculation and comparisons. 👍

                  My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                  Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                  Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                  Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                  No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                  Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                  ? Yep

                  Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                  ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                  Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Stripe View Post

                    For what?
                    Look it up if you're curious.


                    Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by annabenedetti View Post

                      Look it up if you're curious.
                      Oh, I know the answers.
                      Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                      E≈mc2
                      "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                      "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                      -Bob B.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Stripe View Post

                        Oh, I know the answers.
                        Then don't waste my time with stupid questions.

                        Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Lon View Post
                          No surprise, we both disagree. There is a genuine distaste in bringing charges on any president. Both sides are noticeable during attempted impeachment. Anyone with an education and a strong ability to self-reflect will see that it is as bad (literally) to side with one group as the other because it simply pits two parties. I don't like being duped and I don't like doing something 'we did last year in a different party." Patterns are hard to break from, but it is why I'm not democrat or republican at present. I don't want to be a dupe, a cog in a wheel.
                          Again, comes down to evidence.

                          There is plenty of evidence for things. It doesn't always mean indictments.
                          That's what trips them up, every time. You can always jigger up something that sounds suspicious, but sufficient evidence to get an indictment is another matter.

                          I'm just saying it is both sides.
                          As you see, there's a lot more on one side than the other. Now, either Democrats are massively more intelligent than republicans, or republicans commit more crimes in office.

                          Impeachments are difficult. We've not managed to do it often in history.
                          Yep. The president has to do something really off the scale to get impeached. Oral sex in the oval office, repeated felonies, collusion with unfriendly governments. Stuff like that.


                          The goal is to get us all thinking about what does and does not apply to both sides because as the years roll by, there is a noticeable pattern.
                          I showed you the pattern. And yes, it's noticeable. Some presidents predictably, have more criminals in their administrations. And there's a common thread there.

                          You don't think Ford did well?
                          Nor did most Americans.

                          He just wasn't elected but I think he was a good president.
                          Bracketed by Nixon and Carter, he still doesn't look so good.

                          (Barbarian points out that Epstein's "suicide" was rather timely and convenient for Donald Trump)

                          It's a talking point rather than an investigation.
                          Hard to have much sympathy for a person like that. But it's still very suspicious,and I wouldn't be surprised if Trump was involved. But we'll likely never know for sure.






                          This message is hidden because ...

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Stripe View Post

                            Oh, I know the answers.
                            looks like the bananahead doesn't

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Jefferson View Post
                              It's "President" Trump. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
                              When he is Inmate Trump do we still have to refer to him as President?

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by ok doser View Post

                                looks like the bananahead doesn't
                                She likes wasting our time with stupid comments.
                                Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                                E≈mc2
                                "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                                "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                                -Bob B.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X