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Joe Biden says he would force everyone to wear masks in public

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  • Originally posted by chair View Post

    Interesting, and not surprising. I will point out that:
    1. The study cited is about the long-term effects of unemployment, not "death by lockdown", for which there probably aren't any hard numbers.
    2. Masks are a means to help end lockdown and go back to almost normal. Complete normal is not possible. Lockdown is a necessary evil, and can't be kept up for long. Masks are a simple way to help get back to a more normal economy.
    1. it shows that something that happens in any economic downturn will definitely kill people. Would you even care to know how many? And for how much longer than a flu season will this economic downturn continue to kill people since a drop this far doesn't get fixed even in a year? And the US is responsible for a lot of economic activity in 3rd world contries where their lives are much more fragile which will be removed. That kid making Nike shoes in a sweat shop in SE Asia just lost his job - and if you think a person is closer to death when a sweat shop is their best option to live, just wait until they don't have that job and see how much closer to death they get. And most of these people are POC, who I care about, who you apparently don't care about.
    2. Masks don't help much. The relevant studies on virii propagation show that cloth masks don't stop your virii from getting to other people hardly at all. Paper masks work for about 20 minutes and are marginal at best even when they are used property; remember, just because they reduce the amount of virii in the air 3 fold (while they are "fresh"), the threshold to spread an infectious virus is lower than that and expecting people to use them properly leads to false comfort. And N95 masks with the valve aren't helping protect other people from you at all as they let out your water droplets into the environment unimpeded.

    Thus, because masks aren't really doing much, we can expect the lockdowns will cause more harm than good. Especially when COVID won't affect people who aren't among the at-risk population (most workers) even as much as the regular flu.

    Why do you want to kill people with lockdowns? At least I'm willing to actually sacrifice to help people instead of pretending to help people with ineffective masks.

    What we need to do is do what Sweden did. No lockdown, and they are quickly reaching herd immunity. That should be obvious by now.
    Good things come to those who shoot straight.

    Did you only want evidence you are not going to call "wrong"? -Stripe

    Comment


    • I am afraid that, by design (the way life on earth is created), no matter what "We, the People" in a country knows or wants, the men in charge of the ruling system (said democratic or else) have all the means and tools (legal and illegal) to impose their unquestionable rules on their subjects.

      And every national wide protest in a country affects the ordinary people negatively and their rich class positively.
      So I am not surprised every time I discover that a wide protest in a country was planned and launched (cleverly and behind the scenes) by the powerful rich Elite of the protesters to gain more rights and incomes in the long run.

      In fact, the following saying of Jesus applies on both realms; the physical and spiritual ones:
      "For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath."

      So, I repeat... This is how the world is created, we like it or not

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Yorzhik View Post

        2. Masks don't help much. The relevant studies on virii propagation show that cloth masks don't stop your virii from getting to other people hardly at all. Paper masks work for about 20 minutes and are marginal at best even when they are used property; remember, just because they reduce the amount of virii in the air 3 fold (while they are "fresh"), the threshold to spread an infectious virus is lower than that and expecting people to use them properly leads to false comfort. And N95 masks with the valve aren't helping protect other people from you at all as they let out your water droplets into the environment unimpeded.
        Source?
        Everything I've seen says the opposite.

        Originally posted by Yorzhik View Post
        Thus, because masks aren't really doing much, we can expect the lockdowns will cause more harm than good. Especially when COVID won't affect people who aren't among the at-risk population (most workers) even as much as the regular flu.

        Why do you want to kill people with lockdowns? At least I'm willing to actually sacrifice to help people instead of pretending to help people with ineffective masks.
        This thread is about masks, not lockdown! The whole point of masks is to enable a return to more or less normal life without the lockdowns. Why are you mixing up the two? Clearly lockdown is not a viable long-term solution. I am not advocating this. Have I made myself clear? In fact- I don't think anybody thinks it's a viable long term solution.

        Originally posted by Yorzhik View Post
        What we need to do is do what Sweden did. No lockdown, and they are quickly reaching herd immunity. That should be obvious by now.
        Sweden is an interesting case. Not as successful as some would have it. And not "life as usual" as you may think. And it does not look like they've reached "herd immunity" either.


        Comment


        • Where I live no one wear a mask and the death toll is 3/1,000,000 (three per million). But our local media (national and private and as instructed from abroad) has to remind us daily that we live a worldwide pandemic which, like AIDS, may end the existence of the human species on earth, for good.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by KerimF View Post
            Where I live no one wear a mask and the death toll is 3/1,000,000 (three per million). But our local media (national and private and as instructed from abroad) has to remind us daily that we live a worldwide pandemic which, like AIDS, may end the existence of the human species on earth, for good.
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            • Originally posted by chair View Post
              Source?
              Everything I've seen says the opposite.
              That's because you have confirmation bias. The link you have relies on interpretation of recent data which is only allowed if it follows the establishment narrative. There have been a number of them in clinical situations, which don't include cloth masks, like these that Doug McBurney curated:

              Controlled Trials that establish the efficacy of face coverings in preventing transmission of respiratory viruses:
              Jacobs, J. L. et al. (2009) “Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: A randomized controlled trial,” American Journal of Infection Control, Volume 37, Issue 5, 417 – 419. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19216002

              N95-masked health-care workers (HCW) were significantly more likely to experience headaches. Face mask use in HCW was not demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms or getting colds.
              Cowling, B. et al. (2010) “Face masks to prevent transmission of influenza virus: A systematic review,” Epidemiology and Infection, 138(4), 449-456. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/face-masks-to-prevent-transmission-of-influenza-virus-a-systematic-review/64D368496EBDE0AFCC6639CCC9D8BC05

              None of the studies reviewed showed a benefit from wearing a mask, in either HCW or community members in households (H). See summary Tables 1 and 2 therein.
              bin-Reza et al. (2012) “The use of masks and respirators to prevent transmission of influenza: a systematic review of the scientific evidence,” Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses 6(4), 257–267. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1750-2659.2011.00307.x

              “There were 17 eligible studies. … None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask/respirator use and protection against influenza infection.”
              Smith, J.D. et al. (2016) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis,” CMAJ Mar 2016 https://www.cmaj.ca/content/188/8/567

              “We identified six clinical studies … . In the meta-analysis of the clinical studies, we found no significant difference between N95 respirators and surgical masks in associated risk of (a) laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, (b) influenza-like illness, or (c) reported work-place absenteeism.”
              Offeddu, V. et al. (2017) “Effectiveness of Masks and Respirators Against Respiratory Infections in Healthcare Workers: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis,” Clinical Infectious Diseases, Volume 65, Issue 11, 1 December 2017, Pages 1934–1942, https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/11/1934/4068747

              Self-reported assessment of clinical outcomes was prone to bias. Evidence of a protective effect of masks or respirators against verified respiratory infection (VRI) was not statistically significant”; as per Fig. 2c therein:
              Radonovich, L.J. et al. (2019) “N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel: A Randomized Clinical Trial,” JAMA. 2019; 322(9): 824–833. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214

              “Among 2862 randomized participants, 2371 completed the study and accounted for 5180 HCW-seasons. … Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”
              Long, Y. et al. (2020) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza: A systematic review and meta-analysis,” J Evid Based Med. 2020; 1- 9. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/jebm.12381

              This thread is about masks, not lockdown! The whole point of masks is to enable a return to more or less normal life without the lockdowns. Why are you mixing up the two? Clearly lockdown is not a viable long-term solution. I am not advocating this. Have I made myself clear? In fact- I don't think anybody thinks it's a viable long term solution.
              First, why isn't lockdown a viable long term soluion? Because we know that lockdowns lead, ultimately, to death. And it isn't a situation where we reach a certain threshold and people start dying. Deaths might lag in a bad economy, but they will happen no matter what you do. How many people are you willing to sacrifice? Especially when a bad economy makes the next pandemic worse?

              Second, you scream that the discussion is about masks, and then in the next sentence you link it to lockdowns to masks! You act like the stupid common descentists that scream that abiogenesis has nothing to do with common descent. It would be funny if you weren't hurting people in real life.

              Sweden is an interesting case. Not as successful as some would have it. And not "life as usual" as you may think. And it does not look like they've reached "herd immunity" either.
              Everything is as predicted by the Swedish leaders that set the policy. Their economy is hurt, for the most part, only because trading partners locked down - which is a good reason not to lockdown in the US because that saves lives. Secondly, their tracking to reach herd immunity is on the graph where it was predicted to be by this time - about 12% according to establishment scientists who will lose their funding if they make the Swedish policy look good, and higher based on Sweden's own testing, which they will try and make as good looking as they can.

              Here's the bottom line. Lockdowns kill people. Don't do it. Masks help, but not much, so let people who want to wear them do so, but don't make it manditory. It might help flatten the curve and we achieved that so it's time to let people go. People will take care of themselves without your tyranny. Have a little faith in humanity.

              And one more thing, you should be screaming more about murder than screaming about people wearing masks: Old people are dying because governors ordered COVID patients into old-folks care facilities. If you spend more time on mask policy which has data supporting both sides, and less time demanding justice against those governors because of their obvious murder policy, it means you don't care if grandma dies.
              Last edited by Yorzhik; July 13, 2020, 06:46 PM.
              Good things come to those who shoot straight.

              Did you only want evidence you are not going to call "wrong"? -Stripe

              Comment


              • Originally posted by chair View Post

                .
                LOL

                Here, you're admitting that you do not even know that you, yourself, have saved one, single, solitary person's life by wearing your mask.
                What evidence do you have to support your claim that what you call "evidence" is evidence?

                MAGA (Masking America's Gullible Apes)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by 7djengo7 View Post

                  LOL

                  Here, you're admitting that you do not even know that you, yourself, have saved one, single, solitary person's life by wearing your mask.
                  I've saved hundreds of lives, no thousands, by keeping my mask in my back pocket where its always ready

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by chair View Post
                    Source?
                    Everything I've seen says the opposite.
                    LOL

                    You've not even been able to give us a count of how many (if any) human lives you, personally, have saved by wearing your antifaz. Do you really even believe you've actually saved somebody's life by wearing a mask? Whose life/lives, then? Let's hear your detailed firsthand account of the life-saving you imagine you've done by wearing a mask. Why is it you are forced into perpetual silence against these elementary questions?




                    Official Nazi leftard billboard propaganda:
                    "Be somebody's hero and save lives: Wear a mask!"

                    TOL Nazi leftard (programmed, without question, by said propaganda):
                    "I've been saving lives by wearing my really cool mask!"

                    Rationally-thinking person:
                    "Whose life/lives have you, personally, saved by wearing your mask?"

                    TOL Nazi leftard:
                    "I have no idea! I just take the propagandists' word for it that I am saving one or more lives by wearing my really cool mask."

                    Rationally-thinking person:
                    "What number of lives have you, personally, saved by wearing your mask?"

                    TOL Nazi leftard:
                    "I have no idea! I just take the propagandists' word for it that I am saving one or more lives by wearing my really cool mask."



                    Why do you expect people who are not your fellow Nazi leftards to unquestioningly accept the propaganda you, as Nazi leftards, swallow unquestioningly?

                    MAGA (Masking America's Gullible Apes)







                    What evidence do you have to support your claim that what you call "evidence" is evidence?

                    MAGA (Masking America's Gullible Apes)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Yorzhik View Post
                      That's because you have confirmation bias
                      I have confirmation bias, and you don't?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by 7djengo7 View Post
                        You've not even been able to give us a count of how many ...
                        I actually thought that you were intelligent. Nasty but intelligent. My apologies for misjudging you- you are simply nasty.

                        The point is very simple: if more people wear masks, the spread of the disease will slow down. It's a statistical matter- maybe you'll learn about it in High School someday. As a simple example: I have brake lights (or ABS or other safety feature of your choice)on my car. How many accidents have been avoided because I have working brake lights? Impossible to know, and most likely- none. But one can look at the overall number of accidents over time with and without brake lights (in different countries, or time periods) and draw some conclusions about them.

                        Clearly you know all this, but your nastiness forces you to say stupid things.

                        Edit: I would really appreciate it if you stopped throwing around the term "Nazi Leftard'. This would be a small step away from your nastiness. To make it clear: I'd have a lot more cousins today if it wasn't for the real Nazis. Let's not mix up minor political arguments with actual evil. Can you handle this?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Jefferson View Post
                          And Trump is supposed to be the one who is the wannabe authoritarian dictator.
                          Our Conservative P.M. here (UK) has just announced that face mask wearing will be mandatory in all shops and indoor venues as from 24th July.

                          And most of us here, regardless of our politics, agree with that, and in any case we will all be complying with that.


                          Just wait.......... you'll be wearing a face mask yet......... or getting fined, imo.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by eider View Post
                            And most of us here, regardless of our politics, agree with that, and in any case we will all be complying with that.
                            Baaaaaaaaa


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                            • Somebody please explain what the COVID conspiracy is.:
                              1. Who is behind it?
                              2. What is the purpose?
                              3. Why are masks an important part of the scheme?
                              4. Why is not wearing masks a good way to battle this?
                              5. How did they convince every country on earth that this is so serious?
                              6. Who gains from it?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by chair View Post
                                Somebody please explain what the COVID conspiracy is.

                                Who is behind it?
                                Illuminati/deep state/bilderbergers/clintons/rothschilds

                                What is the purpose?
                                World domination

                                Duh

                                Comment

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