If one is "born gay" how do you explain ex-gays?

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Well, for starters there doesn't seem to be a given as to just what "ex gay" even means. It can simply be abstinence from any sort of homosexual relationship as opposed to removing any innate same sex attraction according to sources that promote such a thing. Given that the whole "reparative therapy" has been kicked into touch overall and how many practioners have apologised for the harm they've caused in trying to "cure" it then hey, what's to explain?

Gay folk are still gonna be gay. Might as well posit that heterosexuals can somehow train themselves to become attracted to the same gender.
 
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McCoy

New member
Evil is man's default setting

If by “evil” you mean “ devoid of any moral or ethical boundaries or restraint of conscience”, this is just demonstrably untrue.

The default setting of human beings is general compliance to societal boundaries and guidelines. In any population there is a subset of individuals who have little to no capacity for empathy or compassion, or awareness of harm caused to others. This group represents roughly 5% of the population and are known as sociopaths and psychopaths.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
If by “evil” you mean “ devoid of any moral or ethical boundaries or restraint of conscience”, this is just demonstrably untrue.

The default setting of human beings is general compliance to societal boundaries and guidelines. In any population there is a subset of individuals who have little to no capacity for empathy or compassion, or awareness of harm caused to others. This group represents roughly 5% of the population and are known as sociopaths and psychopaths.

It might have been autobiographical, albeit unintentionally...

;)
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
The default setting of human beings is general compliance to societal boundaries and guidelines.

Exactly - and when the societal boundaries and guidelines told the Volksgemeinschaft that the life of the Jew was without value and must be exterminated, they were happy to be compliant

When the societal boundaries and guidelines told the Russian peasant that the life of the kulak was without value and must be exterminated, they were happy to be compliant. When they were told the life of the Ukrainian peasant was without value and they must be allowed to starve, they were happy to be compliant.

Similarly with the Chi-coms, the Rwandans, the Turks, the Khmer Rouge and on and on through the bloody history of the twentieth century

likewise, when you give young impressionable Americans societal boundaries and guidelines that tell them that this
Spoiler
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is a life without value, they too are happy to be compliant


now, if you're interested in discussing whether the majority of a population such as Germany or America can rightly be described as suffering from APD, have at it
 
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JudgeRightly

裁判官が正しく判断する
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and adulterers are still gonna be adulterers

and pedophiles are still gonna be pedophiles

and rapers are still gonna be rapers

:think: We (including America's government) should do something about that...
 

McCoy

New member
Exactly - and when the societal boundaries and guidelines told the Volksgemeinschaft that the life of the Jew was without value and must be exterminated, they were happy to be compliant


A 1,000 years of authoritative Church teaching, conspiracy theories, scapegoating myths and bigotry brought Europe very comfortably into January 1933.

My reference to societal boundaries was to the universal and innate moral guidelines of harm reduction and fairness-- which the vast majority of the human population adhere to, more often than not. If we didn't we wouldn't have survived this long as a species on the planet. The fact that authoritarian regimes have, at various times in history, exploited this compliant tendency in human beings, doesn't for a moment negate my point that human beings by default adhere to basic moral guidelines and are not completely lawless.
 

Derf

Well-known member
Just curious.

They were born ex-gay, but it took them awhile to realize it.

No matter what you are to start with, what you decide to be is what you're "born" with.

This works with Christians, especially. That's why we are "born again", because we realize that we are in need of a rebirth--that our sin, that some say (perhaps correctly) we were born with, is not how God intended us to be defined. Thus gays, perhaps born in their sins, can be reborn into a new life in Jesus Christ. So ex-gays, as a prime example, are indeed "born" (reborn) that way.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
My reference to societal boundaries was to the universal and innate moral guidelines of harm reduction and fairness-- which the vast majority of the human population adhere to, more often than not.

if that was true we wouldn't need locks on our doors or police services

heck, we wouldn't need laws

human beings by default adhere to basic moral guidelines and are not completely lawless.

i didn't say "lawless"
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
They were born ex-gay, but it took them awhile to realize it.

:chuckle:

:thumb:

No matter what you are to start with, what you decide to be is what you're "born" with.

This works with Christians, especially. That's why we are "born again", because we realize that we are in need of a rebirth--that our sin, that some say (perhaps correctly) we were born with, is not how God intended us to be defined. Thus gays, perhaps born in their sins, can be reborn into a new life in Jesus Christ. So ex-gays, as a prime example, are indeed "born" (reborn) that way.


:thumb:
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Might as well posit that heterosexuals can somehow train themselves to become attracted to the same gender.

As you learned, your (british) government did a study that proved just that - that heterosexuals can indeed train themselves to become attracted to the same gender.

Meant to come back to this - artie often argues that heterosexuals cannot "somehow train themselves to become attracted to the same gender" - he's been doing it for years and years, even after being shown (repeatedly) definitive, well documented studies from his government showing that heterosexuals can and do.

As I recall, the studies looked at the sexual behavior of men who identified as heterosexual before being incarcerated and who identified as heterosexual after being incarcerated and found that some 20% engaged in reciprocal, consensual, sexually satisfying homosexual behavior while incarcerated.

And yet, years later, artie still ignores this proof and ridicules the (proven) idea.

a fun thread where he got his (hat) handed to him on a platter :chuckle:

https://theologyonline.com/forum/pol...rself-to-enjoy
 
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