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If one is "born gay" how do you explain ex-gays?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by McCoy View Post
    In any population there is a subset of individuals who have little to no capacity for empathy or compassion, or awareness of harm caused to others. This group represents roughly 5% of the population and are known as sociopaths and psychopaths.

    as the Stanford Prison Experiment shows, it only takes six days to change that to 30%

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ok doser View Post


      as the Stanford Prison Experiment shows, it only takes six days to change that to 30%
      No. That would be a sociopath sir. Psychopaths actually have a different brain structures than the rest of the population and their disorder appears to be innate.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by McCoy View Post

        No. That would be a sociopath sir.

        go back and read what you wrote, what I responded to

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        • #34
          Originally posted by ok doser View Post




          in what way is "and when the societal boundaries and guidelines told the Volksgemeinschaft that the life of the Jew was without value and must be exterminated, they were happy to be compliant" silly or reductionist?



          I strongly recommend https://www.amazon.com/Ordinary-Men-.../dp/0060995068
          Because it’s reductionist in the extreme. First of all, the Nazi ideology as represented by the German National Socialism never held more than 37% of the National vote in a federal election, and most Germans were uncomfortable with Hitler and his ideas. The majority of the German population were not “happy to be compliant” you dolt. The majority of Germans made a decision to merely survive or go against the maniacal minority who had seized the wheel of the entire power structure and risk brown shirt beat downs, work camps, privation, death .

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          • #35
            Originally posted by McCoy View Post
            ... The majority of the German population were not “happy to be compliant” ...


            The majority of Germans made a decision to merely survive ...


            com·pli·ant

            /kəmˈplīənt/

            adjective: compliant
            • 1.
              inclined to agree with others or obey rules, especially to an excessive degree; acquiescent.
              "a compliant labor force"






            perhaps you have a different definition of "compliant"

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            • #36
              from der spiegel

              How Hitler Won Over the German People

              There were still many Germans who were skeptical of Hitler when he became chancellor in 1933. But Führer propaganda and military success soon turned him into an idol. The adulation helped make the Third Reich catastrophe possible.

              .....

              Much suggests, in fact, that between the death of Hindenburg in August 1934 and the expansion into Austria and the Sudetenland four years later Hitler was indeed successful in gaining the backing of the vast majority of the German people, something of immeasurable importance for the disastrous course of German policy ahead. Apart perhaps from the immediate aftermath of the astonishing victory in France in summer 1940, Hitler's popularity was never higher than at the height of his foreign-policy successes in 1938.


              https://www.spiegel.de/international...-a-531909.html

              Last edited by ok doser; January 20, 2020, 06:16 PM.

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              • #37


                If one is "born gay" how do you explain ex-gays?


                Where is the credible evidence from reputable scientific and medical sources that sexual orientation is a conscious choice?

                Can "ex-gays" and "ex-straights" even exist!
                Last edited by jgarden; January 20, 2020, 05:49 PM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by jgarden View Post
                  If one is "born gay" how do you explain ex-gays?

                  Where is the credible evidence from reputable scientific and medical sources that "ex-gays" even exist!
                  many British studies show 30% of male heterosexual prisoners enjoy homosexual behaviors while imprisoned and revert to heterosexuality when released

                  these are studies by the British government, accepted by the scientific community

                  https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=...4dUDCAc&uact=5

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                  • #39
                    heterosexuality is the defualt setting, normal
                    Originally posted by jgarden View Post
                    Can "ex-gays" and "ex-straights" even exist!
                    no such thing as "ex-gay", the way you're using it

                    "ex-straight"? sure

                    same as ex-non-pedophile, or ex-non-murderer, or ex-non-rapist

                    ex-straight = homo

                    homo's exist, same as pedophiles, same as murderers, same as rapists

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ok doser View Post
                      from der spiegel

                      How Hitler Won Over the German People

                      There were still many Germans who were skeptical of Hitler when he became chancellor in 1933. But Führer propaganda and military success soon turned him into an idol. The adulation helped make the Third Reich catastrophe possible.

                      .....

                      Much suggests, in fact, that between the death of Hindenburg in August 1934 and the expansion into Austria and the Sudetenland four years later Hitler was indeed successful in gaining the backing of the vast majority of the German people, something of immeasurable importance for the disastrous course of German policy ahead. Apart perhaps from the immediate aftermath of the astonishing victory in France in summer 1940, Hitler's popularity was never higher than at the height of his foreign-policy successes in 1938.


                      https://www.spiegel.de/international...-a-531909.html
                      Sorry, i don’t go to magazines to learn about history. This is not to say that the linked article doesn’t make valid points— I haven’t read it and I probably won’t. Why? Because this is a thread debating the possibility of sexual orientation being innate and you and I have not hitherto been engaged in a good faith historical debate that would warrant me fact-checking the article in question. My initial point was that your self-styled cliff’s notes versions of history were silly and if you want to debate the rise of anti-Semitism in 19th and 20th century Europe and its causes, I’d be happy to take it over to a history forum.

                      Let’s just say that this point of contention began with me challenging your assertion that the default position of human nature is total lawlessness— an assertion which is demonstrably false, by even a cursory glance at crime stats worldwide. The vast majority of human beings alive on the planet, maintain the general boundaries of basic morality, i.e. harm reduction and fairness. Again, if this weren’t so, America would have complete societal breakdown and anarchy— which contrary to your doomsday fetish it does not.




                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by McCoy View Post
                        ... your assertion that the default position of human nature is total lawlessness ...
                        nope

                        ... your doomsday fetish ...
                        now what are you raving about?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by McCoy View Post

                          Sorry, i don’t go to magazines to learn about history ...
                          you're kidding me, right?

                          you're actually ignorant of Der Spiegel's bona fides?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by McCoy View Post
                            ... this is a thread debating the possibility of sexual orientation being innate ...

                            heterosexuality is innate

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by ok doser View Post

                              you're kidding me, right?
                              I know it's seems off-putting to suggest-- particularly in this age of Buzzfeed articles and Wikis-- that one ought to rely on substantive scholarly treatises when wanting to learn about complex historical subjects. Magazine's typically ain't that place. Sorry dude.

                              Having said that... I did finally look at the article in question.

                              The good news is, it was written by Ian Kershaw who is in fact a preeminent WWII historian and an expert on Nazi Germany. I encourage you to read the entire piece. It does not support your initial claim by any stretch.

                              Kershaw indeed cites Haffner's "plausible" speculation about Hitler capturing some 90% of popular German opinion in 1938-- but he adds this caveat just a few sentences later, like the careful historian he is:
                              "...such a figure can only be guesswork, and is probably too high."
                              Still, Kershaw affirms that Hitler had undoubtedly made some gains in popular opinion between 1933-1938. However, he is careful to delineate why those gains likely occurred and what they were about.
                              "1) [Hitler] had created jobs and 2) he had made Germany strong."
                              None of this contradicts my initial rebuttal to your absurd and ahistorical assertion that the majority of the German people were willingly compliant with the systematic extermination of the Jews. The facts are far more complicated than disccusion group fodder. Kershaw states in the article:
                              "Though Hitler's anti-Semitic paranoia was not shared by the vast bulk of the population, it plainly did not weigh heavily enough in the scales on the negative side to outweigh the positive attributes that the majority saw in him... "
                              Indifference, ignorance and longstanding centuries-old anti-Jewish bigotry, is still a moral disgrace. On that perhaps, we can agree.

                              Last edited by McCoy; January 21, 2020, 09:45 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by ok doser View Post

                                i do

                                how about you?
                                No, I don't.

                                Adultery is indeed immoral and wrong, but not in the same way or in remotely the same degree that rape is.


                                Pedophilia is a horrible and disordered attraction, but unless acted upon is not remotely equivalent to actual rape. When a pedophile acts upon their urges, they commit rape-- albeit the most extreme and heinous type of rape that exists.

                                So, to reiterate-- you are grouping together different moral considerations under the specious "all sin is equal/ sin-is-sin" umbrella. Unhelpful.

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