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  • a head a horn
    A Dynasty
    and the Roman empire had seven dynasties and Islam had ten dynasties. The seven heads and ten horns of the Apocalypse. More significant pieces of the puzzle that seem to fit. The Byzantine Empire that lasted a thousand years started with the first beast, the Roman Empire, and ended with the 10th dynasty of Islam, the second beast. Is there a fit with the four horsemen?
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    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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    • Originally posted by chrysostom View Post
      a head a horn
      A Dynasty
      and the Roman empire had seven dynasties and Islam had ten dynasties. The seven heads and ten horns of the Apocalypse. More significant pieces of the puzzle that seem to fit. The Byzantine Empire that lasted a thousand years started with the first beast, the Roman Empire, and ended with the 10th dynasty of Islam, the second beast. Is there a fit with the four horsemen?
      Home
      All nonsense.
      All of my ancestors are human.
      Originally posted by Squeaky
      That explains why your an idiot.
      Originally posted by God's Truth
      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post

        All nonsense.
        How long did the Byzantine Empire last?
        How many dynasties did the Roman Empire have?
        How many dynasties did Islam have?
        How did the Byzantine Empire end?
        a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

        Comment


        • Originally posted by chrysostom View Post

          How long did the Byzantine Empire last?
          How many dynasties did the Roman Empire have?
          How many dynasties did Islam have?
          How did the Byzantine Empire end?
          You assume so much. The 1000 year reign will have Christ on the earth in Jerusalem. That's what the Bible says.

          Christ went to receive His kingdom AND return.

          Luk 19:12 KJV He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

          The idea of "just a spiritual kingdom" is not only un-Biblical, it is anti-Biblical.
          All of my ancestors are human.
          Originally posted by Squeaky
          That explains why your an idiot.
          Originally posted by God's Truth
          Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
          Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
          (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

          1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
          (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

          Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

          Comment


          • four horsemen
            A Color
            and a sea to match. Constantine, with a bow, the rider of the white horse from the Mediterranean often referred to as the white sea by the Turks. Mohammed the rider of the red horse from the Red Sea. Marx the rider of the black horse from the Black Sea. Islam and communism the greatest two threats to the Church. Constantine was the greatest friend of the Church. A pale sea is not clear.
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            a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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            • marxism
              A Greater Threat
              than Islam which can be defeated militarily like it has been in the past. Marxism has infiltrated the Church in the form of modernism and can't be defeated militarily. Saul Alinsky, the modern day Marx, understood the Church would have to be infiltrated in order to bring about this utopian world. This along with homosexuality, a marriage made in hell, is threatening the Church like never before.
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              a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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              • all the pieces
                A Summary
                of it all in one place if you have the time and interest. You may wonder why no one else has done this. Maybe their pieces don't fit. Maybe they don't have all the pieces. Maybe they don't use history. It is really the only advantage we have over those who came before us. Use it.
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                a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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                • "reign of Christ"
                  A Man Made Phrase
                  you won't find in the bible but if you google it, you will find over 6 million hits. In the bible you will find (0 Bible results for “"reign of Christ".”) Just another misinterpretation of the bible that will prevent you from understanding what has been prophesied. The bible is not misleading but there are those who can mislead you about what the bible is saying. Beware.
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                  a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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                  • Originally posted by chrysostom View Post
                    Saul Alinsky, the modern day Marx, understood the Church would have to be infiltrated in order to bring about this utopian world.
                    For as long as I can remember Alinsky has been held up as a great satan. I never questioned it because that understanding, that belief was ubiquitous and unquestioned in conservative thinking - and fuels, in good part, their hatred of Hilary and Obama. But I'm questioning it now. Exactly why is Alinsky hated? He disavowed communist totalitarianism, he didn't attach himself to a specific ideology. So why? So I found that famous interview he did with Playboy and now I have an idea why, and maybe next is actually reading the entire Rules for Radicals, to see if it's as evil as I've always been led to believe.

                    Here's an excerpt from that interview, here regarding his connection to communism/communist ideology:
                    Spoiler
                    PLAYBOY: What did you do after the war?

                    ALINSKY: I went back to community-organization work, crisscrossing the country, working in slums in New York and Detroit and Buffalo and in Mexican barrios in California and the Southwest. Reveille for Radicals became the number one best seller, and that helped drum up more support for our work, but then the Cold War began to freeze and McCarthyism started sweeping the country, making any radical activity increasingly difficult. In those days everybody who challenged the establishment was branded a Communist, and the radical movement began to disintegrate under the pressure.

                    PLAYBOY: What was your own relationship with the Communist Party?

                    ALINSKY: I knew plenty of Communists in those days, and I worked with them on a number of projects. Back in the Thirties, the Communists did a hell of a lot of good work; they were in the vanguard of the labor movement and they played an important role in aiding blacks and Okies and Southern sharecroppers. Anybody who tells you he was active in progressive causes in those days and never worked with the Reds is a ******* liar. Their platform stood for all the right things, and unlike many liberals, they were willing to put their bodies on the line. Without the Communists, for example, I doubt the C.I.O. could have won all the battles it did. I was also sympathetic to Russia in those days, not because I admired Stalin or the Soviet system but because it seemed to be the only country willing to stand up to Hitler. I was in charge of a big part of fund raising for the International Brigade and in that capacity I worked in close alliance with the Communist Party.

                    When the Nazi-Soviet Pact came, though, and I refused to toe the party line and urged support for England and for American intervention in the war, the party turned on me tooth and nail. Chicago Reds plastered the Back of the Yards with big posters featuring a caricature of me with a snarling, slavering fanged mouth and wild eyes, labeled, "This is the face of a warmonger." But there were too many Poles, Czechs, Lithuanians and Latvians in the area for that tactic to go over very well. Actually, the greatest weakness of the party was its slavish parroting of the Moscow line. It could have been much more effective if it had adopted a relatively independent stance, like the western European parties do today. But all in all, and despite my own fights with them, I think the Communists of the Thirties deserve a lot of credit for the struggles they led or participated in. Today the party is just a shadow of the past, but in the Depiession it was a positive force for social change. A lot of its leaders and organizers were jerks, of course, but objectively the party in those days was on the right side and did considerable good.

                    PLAYBOY: Did you consider becoming a party member prior to the Nazi-Soviet Pact?

                    ALINSKY: Not at any time. I've never joined any organization -- not even the ones I've organized myself. I prize my own independence too much. And philosophically, I could never accept any rigid dogma or ideology, whether it's Christianity or Marxism. One of the most important things in life is what judge Learned Hand described as "that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're right." If you don't have that, if you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated. The greatest crimes in history have been perpetrated by such religious and political and racial fanatics, from the persecutions of the Inquisition on down to Communist purges and Nazi genocide. The great atomic physicist Niels Bohr summed it up pretty well when he said, "Every sentence I utter must be understood not as an affirmation, but as a question." Nobody owns the truth, and dogma, whatever form it takes, is the ultimate enemy of human freedom.
                    Now, this doesn't mean that I'm rudderless; I think I have a much keener sense of direction and purpose than the true believer with his rigid ideology, because I'm free to be loose, resilient and independent, able to respond to any situation as it arises without getting trapped by articles of faith. My only fixed truth is a belief in people, a conviction that if people have the opportunity to act freely and the power to control their own destinies, they'll generally reach the right decisions. The only alternative to that belief is rule by an elite, whether it's a Communist bureaucracy or our own present-day corporate establishment. You should never have an ideology more specific than that of the founding fathers: "For the general welfare." That's where I parted company with the Communists in the Thirties, and that's where I stay parted from them today.




                    Regarding the Church in Chicago:
                    Spoiler
                    PLAYBOY: Why did you pick the Back of the Yards district as your first target?

                    ALINSKY: It appealed to me for a number of reasons. For one thing, it was the area behind the Chicago Stockyards that Upton Sinclair wrote about in The Jungle at the turn of the century, and nothing at all had been done to improve conditions since then. It was the nadir of all slums in America. People were crushed and demoralized, either jobless or getting starvation wages, diseased, living in filthy, rotting unheated shanties, with barely enough food and clothing to keep alive. And it was a cesspool of hate; the Poles, Slovaks, Germans, Negroes, Mexicans and Lithuanians all hated each other and all of them hated the Irish, who returned the sentiment in spades.

                    Native fascist groups like the German American Bund, Father Coughlin's National Union for Social Justice and William Dudley Pelley's Silver Shirts were moving in to exploit the discontent, and making lots of converts. It wasn't because the people had any real sympathy for fascism; it was just that they were so desperate they'd grab on to anything that offered them a glimmer of hope, and Coughlin and Pelley gave them handy scapegoats in the Jews and the "international bankers." But I knew that once they were provided with a real, positive program to change their miserable conditions, they wouldn't need scapegoats anymore. Probably my prime consideration in moving into Back of the Yards, though, was because if it could be done there, it could be done anywhere. People would say to me, "Saul, you're crazy; try any place but Back of the Yards. It's impossible, you'll never get anywhere." You've got to remember that, to most people in those days, the concept that the poor have the intelligence and ingenuity to solve their own problems was heresy; even many radicals who paid it lip service in principle were elitist in practice. So the more I was told it was impossible the more determined I was to push ahead.

                    PLAYBOY: How did you go about organizing a community like Back of the Yards?

                    ALINSKY: Well, the first thing I did, the first thing I always do, is to move into the community as an observer, to talk with people and listen and learn their grievances and their attitudes. Then I look around at what I've got to work with, what levers I can use to pry closed doors open, what institutions or organizations already exist that can be useful. In the case of Back of the Yards, the area was 95 percent Roman Catholic, and I recognized that if I could win the support of the Church, we'd be off and running. Conversely, without the Church, or at least some elements of it, it was unlikely that we'd be able to make much of a dent in the community.

                    PLAYBOY: Wasn't the Catholic Church quite conservative in those days?

                    ALINSKY: Nationally it certainly was, which was why a little two-bit Hitler like Coughlin was never censured or silenced until the war. But Chicago in those days was a peculiar exception; under Cardinal Mundelein and Bishop Bernard Sheil, it was the most socially progressive archdiocese in the country. Sheil was a fine man, liberal and prolabor, and he was sympathetic to what I wanted to do in Back of the Yards, but the key thing was to win over the local priests; some of whom were much more conservative. Now, it's always been a cardinal principle of organizing for me never to appeal to people on.the basis of abstract values, as too many civil rights leaders do today. Suppose I walked into the office of the average religious leader of any denomination and said, "Look, I'm asking you to live up to your Christian principles, to, make Jesus' words about brotherhood and social justice realities." What do you think would happen? He'd shake my hand warmly, say, "God bless you, my son," and after I was gone he'd tell his secretary, "If that crackpot comes around again, tell him I'm out."

                    So in order to involve the Catholic priests in Back of the Yards, I didn't give them any stuff about Christian ethics, I just appealed to their self-interest. I'd say, "Look, you're telling your people to stay out of the Communist-dominated unions and action groups, right?" He'd nod. So I'd go on: "And what do they do? They say, 'Yes, Father,' and walk out of the church and join the C.I.O. Why? Because it's their bread and butter, because the C.I.O. is doing something about their problems while you're sitting here on your tail in the sacristy." That stirred 'em up, which is just what I wanted to do, and then I'd say, "Look, if you go on like that you're gonna alienate your parishioners, turn them from the Church, maybe drive them into the arms of the Reds. Your only hope is to move first, to beat the Communists at their own game, to show the people you're more interested in their living conditions than the contents of your collection plate. And not only will you get them back again by supporting their struggle, but when they win they'll be more prosperous and your donations will go up and the welfare of the Church will be enhanced." Now I'm talking their language and we can sit down and hammer out a deal. That was what happened in Back of the Yards, and within a few months the overwhelming majority of the parish priests were backing us, and we were holding our organizational meetings in their churches. To [redacted] your enemies, you've first got to seduce your allies.




                    Absolutely fascinating interview. Wow.
                    Last edited by annabenedetti; December 8th, 2019, 06:01 PM.

                    Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by chrysostom View Post
                      "reign of Christ"
                      A Man Made Phrase
                      you won't find in the bible but if you google it, you will find over 6 million hits. In the bible you will find (0 Bible results for “"reign of Christ".”) Just another misinterpretation of the bible that will prevent you from understanding what has been prophesied. The bible is not misleading but there are those who can mislead you about what the bible is saying. Beware.
                      I never cease to be amazed at some of the stupidity I find in some posts here on TOL.

                      Not finding YOUR specific pet phrase in the Bible is meaningless. What does the Bible actually say?

                      Rev 11:15 KJV And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

                      This verse says that Christ will reign "for ever and ever".

                      Rev 20:6 KJV Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

                      They cannot "reign with Christ" unless Christ is reigning.

                      It's so simple that even a child can understand it.
                      All of my ancestors are human.
                      Originally posted by Squeaky
                      That explains why your an idiot.
                      Originally posted by God's Truth
                      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post

                        They cannot "reign with Christ" unless Christ is reigning.
                        If you are driving with your mother to church, who is driving?
                        a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

                        Comment


                        • This could've been written today:

                          ALINSKY: ... The middle class actually feels more defeated and lost today on a wide range of issues than the poor do. And this creates a situation that's supercharged with both opportunity and danger. There's a second revolution seething beneath the surface of middle-class America -- the revolution of a bewildered, frightened and as-yet-inarticulate group of desperate people groping for alternatives -- for hope. Their fears and their frustrations over their impotence can turn into political paranoia and demonize them, driving them to the right, making them ripe for the plucking by some guy on horseback promising a return to the vanished verities of yesterday. The right would give them scapegoats for their misery -- blacks, hippies, Communists -- and if it wins, this country will become the first totalitarian state with a national anthem celebrating "the land of the free and the home of the brave." But we're not going to abandon the field to them without a long, hard fight -- a fight I think we're going to win. Because we'll show the middle class their real enemies: the corporate power elite that runs and ruins the country -- the true beneficiaries of Nixon's so-called economic reforms. And when they swing their sights on that target, the [redacted] will really hit the fan.

                          Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

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                          • Originally posted by annabenedetti View Post
                            This could've been written today:

                            ALINSKY: ... The middle class ac
                            Your job is easy. Once a year, on the Sunday before Thanksgiving, go to Church and contribute to the CCHD collection and your saint Alinsky will bless you.

                            This could've been written today:
                            Mark 8:36 King James Version (KJV)


                            36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
                            Last edited by chrysostom; December 9th, 2019, 02:37 AM.
                            a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

                            Comment


                            • a Lamb
                              A Bare Record
                              in the first chapter of the Apocalypse. The name John is mentioned two times in the third person and once in the first person. John the Apostle knew "who bare record" and the seven churches. John the Baptist knew the Lamb and the seven spirits but not the churches or Jesus. John Chrysostom on the isle of Patmos at the beginning of the fifth century knew all of this including Jerome's Latin translation of the bible. Nicolaus Morosow based on astronomy pointed to Chrysostom as the writer of the Apocalypse. All these dots can be connected in a reasonable way.
                              Home
                              a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by chrysostom View Post

                                If you are driving with your mother to church, who is driving?
                                Horrible "analogy". Christ reigns as KING... others reign under Christ.

                                Your disrespect for the King of Kings is disgusting.
                                All of my ancestors are human.
                                Originally posted by Squeaky
                                That explains why your an idiot.
                                Originally posted by God's Truth
                                Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                                Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                                (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                                1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                                (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                                Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                                Comment

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