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Best Evidence for Evolution.

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  • Originally posted by bob b View Post
    If the whale is the best evidence that all life has descended from a primtive single-celled creature, then I would say that the ToE is in deep doo doo.
    Of course, this statement comes from someone who would refuse to acknowledge any evidence for ToE short of a divine fiat, doesn't it?
    "Those who have crossed
    With direct eyes, to death's other Kingdom
    Remember us--if at all--not as lost
    Violent souls, but only
    As the hollow men
    The stuffed men." ... T.S. Eliot

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    • Originally posted by SUTG View Post
      First off, I would change that to "Young Earth Creationists do not understand evolution." There are probably a few that do, but in general it is the case that they are either ignorant of the theory or they intentionally misunderstand it.

      I'd say the best case for evolution is that there is so much coherent evidence from so many different disciplines. Even in Darwin's time I think the case was made, but now we have the molecular evidence which I would consider the best evidence for evolution.
      I see the word evidence, but I don't see the evidence you are speaking of. Are you referring to evolution of the cosmos or evolution of man?

      Evolve means to unfold, open or expand. The universe is evolving as science has shown. Man, is increasing in knowledge, but where is the evidence that man has evolved from one thing into another?

      Be Blessed
      ~ In Christ, may all be blessed ~Joseph.

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      • Originally posted by called_out View Post
        I see the word evidence, but I don't see the evidence you are speaking of.
        Are you a Young Earth Creationist?

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        • Originally posted by PlastikBuddha View Post
          Of course, this statement comes from someone who would refuse to acknowledge any evidence for ToE short of a divine fiat, doesn't it?
          So do you agree with Justin that the whale is the best evidence for evolution?

          If so it may be worth exploring just what the scientific evidence is for it having evolved from a four footed land animal similar to a modern day fox.
          Random changes are destructive to any carefully crafted piece of work, such as a computer program, a novel or the genome of a lifeform.
          Matt 23:24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

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          • Originally posted by bob b View Post
            If so it may be worth exploring just what the scientific evidence is for it having evolved from a four footed land animal similar to a modern day fox.
            As a self proclaimed "science lover" I thought you would have explored this by now.

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            • Originally posted by SUTG View Post
              Are you a Young Earth Creationist?
              I suppose it would depend on the dating method. What dating method do you support?
              ~ In Christ, may all be blessed ~Joseph.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by bob b View Post
                So do you agree with Justin that the whale is the best evidence for evolution?

                If so it may be worth exploring just what the scientific evidence is for it having evolved from a four footed land animal similar to a modern day fox.
                I've already said its ponitless to try to find one piece of evidence that acts a keystone to the arch. The evidence comes from the fossil record, from DNA, from geology, from homology- its all interwoven. For Charles Darwin it seems the evidence responsible for pushing him "over the edge" was the sparrow specimens he collected while aboard the Beagle. The whale is a great example of a species making a physical transition from land to sea. The evolution of dinosaurs from liard-like ancestors to sauropods and theropods and theropods to modern birds is also fruitful. Fish to land-dwelling amphibians. There's a lot of evidence, Bob. Trying to narrow the issue isn't going to help your cause.
                "Those who have crossed
                With direct eyes, to death's other Kingdom
                Remember us--if at all--not as lost
                Violent souls, but only
                As the hollow men
                The stuffed men." ... T.S. Eliot

                Comment


                • Originally posted by SUTG View Post
                  As a self proclaimed "science lover" I thought you would have explored this by now.
                  Actually I have of course, because this was the "evidence" that Ken Miller presented as the best evidence for evolution in the famous debate with his cohort Eugenie Scott when they debated Mike Behe and Philip Johnson a few years ago on a PBS special.

                  Miller had a couple of flip charts of several different fossils which he claimed proved that whales had evolved from a small four footed land mammal.

                  History repeats itself, because something similar convinced me as a freshman in college, when I heard Julian Huxley give his dog and pony show on the evolution of the horse. Time and further fossil findings have not been kind to that fairytale, since most museums have subsequently discarded their original displays that were based on Huxley's scenario. Niles Eldridge, the curator at the museum in New York noted that the horse series was "unfortunate".

                  It is interesting to note that Miller isn't even a paleontologist ("fossil bone guy").
                  Random changes are destructive to any carefully crafted piece of work, such as a computer program, a novel or the genome of a lifeform.
                  Matt 23:24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bob B
                    So do you agree with Justin that the whale is the best evidence for evolution?
                    Do you intentionally put words in the other people's mouths, or was that just a slip? I never said the whale is the best evidence for evolution, I simply provided a link to evidence for the evolution of the whale.
                    "In a fractional reserve banking system like the United States banking system, most of the funds advanced to borrowers (assets of the bank) are created by the banks themselves and are not merely transferred from one set of depositors to another set of borrowers." - Walker F. Todd

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by PlastikBuddha View Post
                      I've already said its ponitless to try to find one piece of evidence that acts a keystone to the arch. The evidence comes from the fossil record, from DNA, from geology, from homology- its all interwoven. For Charles Darwin it seems the evidence responsible for pushing him "over the edge" was the sparrow specimens he collected while aboard the Beagle. The whale is a great example of a species making a physical transition from land to sea. The evolution of dinosaurs from liard-like ancestors to sauropods and theropods and theropods to modern birds is also fruitful. Fish to land-dwelling amphibians. There's a lot of evidence, Bob. Trying to narrow the issue isn't going to help your cause.
                      It seems to me that it isn't. It is revealing that the advocates of the theory are terribly confused because of the wealth of data in the all the different fields and since they are unable to take it all in themselves and make sense of it have decided to just depend on the conclusions that are being fed to them by educators and the media.

                      I am used to this because of my past experience and training. This is what always happens whenever "systems" are large and involve a lot of different experts from a lot of different fields. Each expert in one field depends on the conclusions coming out of the experts in another field and they all adjust their findings over time to reach a common and non-controversial conclusion.

                      The problem always occurs when the basic underlying assumptions are wrong to start with. This is the case in evolutionary theory where everyone has accepted the main premise and accept conclusions from each other's field. This is why there is agreement, not because their conclusions were arrived at independently. Of course one must have lived through this era to have noticed this slow and gradual process or else read a good history of how these ideas gradually developed and became synchronized over time.

                      Yes, it is all interwoven, but because the basic premise is wrong, it has led to a unified, agreed upon, yet incorrect conclusion.
                      Random changes are destructive to any carefully crafted piece of work, such as a computer program, a novel or the genome of a lifeform.
                      Matt 23:24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JustinFoldsFive View Post
                        Do you intentionally put words in the other people's mouths, or was that just a slip? I never said the whale is the best evidence for evolution, I simply provided a link to evidence for the evolution of the whale.
                        I would then appreciate it if in the future you would stick to the subject and just tell us what you think is the best evidence for descent of all life from a single primitive ancestor.
                        Random changes are destructive to any carefully crafted piece of work, such as a computer program, a novel or the genome of a lifeform.
                        Matt 23:24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by bob b View Post
                          My view is that the simple story in Genesis is essentially true: multiple types of fully functional sea, land and air creatures at the beginning.
                          Thanks for your "view" bob, unfortunately, other than an old oft mistranslated book it has no basis in fact.
                          "Against stupidity, the gods themselves fight in vain", G. Smiley

                          "Send money, guns and lawyers..." W. Zevon

                          "If it is possible for something to happen, that is evidence that it did happen." Stripe on TOL

                          "There but for fortune...", P. Ochs

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                          • Originally posted by bob b View Post
                            The problem always occurs when the basic underlying assumptions are wrong to start with. This is the case in evolutionary theory where everyone has accepted the main premise and accept conclusions from each other's field. This is why there is agreement, not because their conclusions were arrived at independently. Of course one must have lived through this era to have noticed this slow and gradual process or else read a good history of how these ideas gradually developed and became synchronized over time.
                            So which "underlying assumptions" do you believe are correct?

                            Do you think that the only assumptions that should be used in science are those that agree with your specific religious indoctrination?
                            Militant Moderate

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                            • Originally posted by SUTG View Post
                              Are you a Young Earth Creationist?
                              I believe the universe is very old, but new planets are being formed all the time. So in light of that how can we know if the earth is "young" or "old"? It would be conjecture.
                              ~ In Christ, may all be blessed ~Joseph.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Bob B
                                I would then appreciate it if in the future you would stick to the subject and just tell us what you think is the best evidence for descent of all life from a single primitive ancestor.
                                I would appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth.

                                And if I had to pick my favorite line of evidence for TOE, it would have to be anatomical vestiges.
                                "In a fractional reserve banking system like the United States banking system, most of the funds advanced to borrowers (assets of the bank) are created by the banks themselves and are not merely transferred from one set of depositors to another set of borrowers." - Walker F. Todd

                                Comment

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