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ARCHIVE: Free From Sin - 1 John

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  • Originally posted by godrulz
    Sin is not a substance that is 'removed'. It is a volition that no longer exists. If one commits adultery 20 years before conversion, it is a past sin that does not exist to be literally removed. Justification means that He treats us as if we never sinned. He does not count or hold it against us based on a substitute for the penalty of sin, the Lord Jesus Christ. Without Christ, the demands of His holy law would be required (death). Without shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness. This satisfies God's love and holiness. We are cleansed and forgiven, just as if we never sinned (though it does not change the fact that we did sin nor does it mean that he/we literally forget it).
    12As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions from us.
    -Psalms 103:12
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    • Originally posted by Lighthouse
      12As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions from us.
      -Psalms 103:12

      Nice poetic language that expresses a spiritual truth. Psalms is not a didactic, wooden literalism passage. It also is couched in Old Testament imagery of animal sacrifices and ritual. As the lightning comes from east to west, so will coming of Son of Man be. Other passages imply He does not hold our sin against us. It does not mean He gathers up our sins in a box and throws them in the garbage. Lying is not a thing that makes sense with spatial analogies (east/west)...figure of speech?
      Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

      They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
      I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

      Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

      "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

      The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

      Comment


      • After the resurrection, Jesus was healed, but He still bore hte scars. Those were His witness.

        Even with our sins cleansed, we still bear the scars, as a witness to what we have been through,
        and how God's Grace has redeemed us.

        Dave
        1 John 4:7-8 "Beloved, let us love one another, because love is from God; everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love."

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        • Originally posted by godrulz
          Hebrews refutes this concept.
          Hence the name of the book... "Hebrews".
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          • Originally posted by Lighthouse
            He does not cover them, He removes them. He has removed sin itself from us. Christ became sin, to remove it from us.
            That is nothing more than doublespeak.

            After all... you DO believe that Christians do things that are bad and wrong, correct?

            Some Christians steal..., use profanity, and even worse!

            You do believe that right?


            Yet you think that when a Christian does these "bad things" they are no longer called "sins", big deal! A name change for bad behavior! What is the pay off? Christ still needs to cover the punishment for these "bad things" correct?

            When Jesus hung on the cross it meant far more than a name change for bad behavior.

            You are preaching a hollow, unnecessarily confusing inaccurate gospel message.
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            • Lighthouse, you haven't been dogmatic on this for very long. It seems as though you might have jumped on the wagon when you first heard Sozo arguing that a Christian can't sin, not really realizing just how far he was taking his arguments. You may have even finally realized that he may have been taking it too far but had already jumped the gun in agreeing with him quite a bit so you possibly hesitated to rethink or restate your position. Of course I can't know this for sure and I apologize if I'm wrong.

              I just challenge you to make sure, in your heart of hearts and in your gutt, that you really feel confident that to defend something such as this, is really worth this kind of debate among Christians who happen to be so likeminded when you really get down to it.
              Last edited by Poly; April 29th, 2006, 08:37 PM.
              "The most terrifying words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" - Ronald Reagan



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              • I agree with Knight. Even though the Lord doesn't hold our trangressions against us, we still "miss the mark" in a great many ways. If the Apostle Paul is going to call himself the "chief of sinners," then I'm going to find my spot right behind him and call myself a sinner. Yes. I'm still a sinner. But I'm not condemned. I was when I was alive. But now I'm dead in Christ, and when God looks at me, He sees Christ.
                • For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man and I behold another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of the sin that [is] in my members. A wretched man I [am]! who shall deliver me out of this dying body? Thanks be to God, [He will deliver me] through Jesus Christ our Lord; so then, I myself indeed with the mind do serve the law of God, and with the flesh, the law of sin.

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                • I want to hear more about Sozo's "Christ removed all sin from all men for all time - but that doesn't mean what it says" theology.

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                  • Originally posted by koban
                    I want to hear more about Sozo's "Christ removed all sin from all men for all time - but that doesn't mean what it says" theology.
                    Only those who say that God's children can sin are in the camp of the, "It don't mean what it says theology"
                    Galatians 5:13 ¶For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

                    The borrower is slave to the linder. What makes this country think it is rich and free?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by elected4ever
                      Only those who say that God's children can sin are in the camp of the, "It don't mean what it says theology"
                      You mean like the apostle Paul?

                      1Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. 7 However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse. 9 But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.

                      Ephesians 4:25 Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another. 26 “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, 27 nor give place to the devil.

                      Romans 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”

                      1Corinthians 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
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                      • Originally posted by Knight
                        Hence the name of the book... "Hebrews".
                        Hebrews was contextualized for Jewish Christians, just as Matthew was primarily to a Jewish audience, Mark to a Roman audience, Luke to a Greek audience, and John to believers. This does not mean there are 4 gospels messages. The Old Covenant is the foundation for the NT (reality). The books of the NT give us full biblical truth for the New Covenant. There is no need to propose a brief second gospel for a limited time between the resurrection and Paul's conversion.
                        Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

                        They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
                        I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

                        Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

                        "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

                        The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

                        Comment


                        • Good use of Scripture, Knight, that blatantly contradicts sinless perfectionism (there are a variety of heresies under this label).
                          Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

                          They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
                          I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

                          Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

                          "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

                          The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by god~drulz
                            The Old Covenant is the foundation for the NT (reality).
                            Paul states that his gospel was hidden from before the foundation of the earth, the he was the first to whom the mystery was made known.
                            • Romans 16:25 ~
                              And to Him who is able to establish you, according to my good news, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the secret, in the times of the ages having been kept silent
                            • Colossians 1:26 ~... the secret that hath been hid from the ages and from the generations, but now was manifested to his saints,
                            • Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:


                            That's right. The mystery WAS NOT revealed to Peter. But Paul says to mark out every one that speaks against Paul's distinctive gospel. I believe that includes you, Godrulz.

                            Comment


                            • Ephesians 3:4-6 shows that the mystery (Jew and Gentile one in Christ) was not just revealed to Paul, but to God's holy apostleS and prophetS. Peter did have a Gentile revelation. Just because it was revealed to Paul does not mean the others did not have an understanding. The church was birthed in Acts 2 by the Spirit (fulfill promise that Christ would build His church- Mt. 16:18..rock of Peter's confession), not later at Paul's conversion.
                              Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

                              They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
                              I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

                              Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

                              "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

                              The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

                              Comment


                              • You guyes mean to tell me that you do not know the differance i offending someone and opposing some one? Are you guys really that ignorunt?
                                Galatians 5:13 ¶For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

                                The borrower is slave to the linder. What makes this country think it is rich and free?

                                Comment

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