Creation vs. Evolution

[MichaelCadry]

Dear All,

It all comes down to this. See my newest thread "God Creates Good and Evil". It should answer ALL of your questions.

God's Best!!

MichaelC

 

[SeekerOfTruth68]

Hello All,

My religious tradition is Hinduism, but I am a skeptic at heart. In general, Hinduism is favorable toward evolution and somehow also ties in reincarnation and transmigration of souls, placing a soul in a higher form based on its karma, etc. No proof for this, except if you believe accounts of past life recollections.

All of that said, I would like to know if there are any calculations for HOW LONG it would take evolution to produce the entire diversity of life we see on Earth today - i.e., all animals, insects, plants, etc. and of course man. I am no scientist, but my gut alone tells me that a few billion years is not enough time. But I could be completely wrong?

Also, as cited earlier, the lack of a coherent transitional fossil record is a huge problem, EVEN AS CITED BY evolution-believing scientists. I saw the few examples provided regarding possible transitional fossils (mostly within species, no across species, correct?), but they were unconvincing to me. However, if we had something like that for at least 50% of all species and life forms, that would be something to consider!!!

To the evolutionist: Just because you see similarities between certain fossils, why do you conclude evolution? Why can't they just be different designs based on a common template, and that would be the explanation for diversity? If you are just bent on not wanting a designer because the idea of one is not to your liking, I can understand that. But just based on scientific observation, why is evolution the obvious answer to you?

Thank You.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear SeekerOfTruth68,

You've got the wrong guy. I don't believe in evolution. I believe in Creationism by God. From grass to trees, to creeping things, to birds, to reptiles to seals, to animals to men, to servants of God in heaven, a very long time, perhaps thousands of years, not millions. But the chain reaction keeps on taking place as we speak, new creatures are starting as grass and moving into bushes, then trees, etc. Listen, I don't believe in evolution, but I do believe that as time passes, you get an upgrade on which earthly/heavenly body God will give you. But it is His Soul discretion, not something by chance from evolution. God is in complete control of it and oversees it. I would guess 12,000 years from grass to heaven. The last life form of course, is servant of God, which is just like being an angel. I think you would be very interested in going to my newest thread (just came out today) called God Creates Good and Evil. You might be amazed. Also, you should definitely give up on Hinduism and serve God as a Christian. You MUST do it. Jesus says, "No man comes to the Father, but by Me." So you will want to believe in Jesus as the Son of God and the Messiah. I know it's a lot to lay on you, but you asked. You need an overhaul.

Any time you want to ask me a question, you can ask it on a post or a PM, depending how personal it is. Hinduism will get you nowhere in life and that's what you'll have to learn in your next life as a person on earth, not a lesser life form. You don't go backwards. And it's okay to eat cattle. Why starve. The cattle does not have your relatives spirit in it so eat and be merry. Hope I've been able to help you.

God Bless You Tons,

MichaelC

 

[noguru]

Just because you see similarities between certain fossils, why do you conclude evolution? Why can't they just be different designs based on a common template, and that would be the explanation for diversity? But just based on scientific observation, why is evolution the obvious answer to you?

Thank You.

modified for appropriateness

It is not similarities alone that provides evidence. In fact it is an analysis of the statistical differences as well as the similarities that demonstrates a nested hierarchy of relatedness. We have empirical evidence for genetic variation and natural selection. So what mechanism(s) are you proposing as the source of this biodiversity, if not the two for which we have empirical evidence?

Also the fossil record is supportive evidence, not the only evidence for common ancestry. We can look at all species of extant fish and see a clear progression from more generalized to more specified form and function. The general progression is clearly seen in the changes from jawless fish, cartilaginous fish, lobe finned fish, teleost fish, to perciform fish. Then we look at the fossil record and what do we see? We see that progression in fishes mirrored in the succession of the occurrence of these various groups of fish.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear noguru,

Hi! Thanks for your help!! I still believe that God created the jawless fish, to the perciform fish and all of them in between. Do you know what I'm saying here, noguru. I don't think they advanced on their own or by themselves.

God's Best Of Blessings Upon You!!

Michael

 

[noguru]

Dear noguru,

Hi! Thanks for your help!! I still believe that God created the jawless fish, to the perciform fish and all of them in between. Do you know what I'm saying here, noguru. I don't think they advanced on their own or by themselves.

God's Best Of Blessings Upon You!!

Michael

Michael, what you believe has no bearing on reality. You need to try and align your beliefs with reality, not the other way around. If one is a theist, and accepts that God is the ultimate source of all things, then God did create things through the natural world. You really need to get outside your mentally stunted box.

 

[6days]

All of that said, I would like to know if there are any calculations for HOW LONG it would take evolution to produce the entire diversity of life we see on Earth today

Its pretty easy to do the calculation. As you said, billions of years is not enough. Billions of years would only lead to extinction of all life. We have thousands of examples / good empirical evidence of decaying genomes. (genetic problems, extinctions, disease etc). These problems exists because of corruption to pre-existing information.
Those thousands of examples perfectly fit the Biblical model.

Also, as cited earlier, the lack of a coherent transitional fossil record is a huge problem, EVEN AS CITED BY evolution-believing scientists. I saw the few examples provided regarding possible transitional fossils (mostly within species, no across species, correct?), but they were unconvincing to me. However, if we had something like that for at least 50% of all species and life forms, that would be something to consider!!!

Is there even ONE transitional fossil? No

 

[noguru]

Its pretty easy to do the calculation. As you said, billions of years is not enough. Billions of years would only lead to extinction of all life. We have thousands of examples / good empirical evidence of decaying genomes. (genetic problems, extinctions, disease etc). These problems exists because of corruption to pre-existing information.

Can we see your calculations?

Those thousands of examples perfectly fit the Biblical model.

Which Biblical model?

Is there even ONE transitional fossil? No

There are many. You just refuse to accept them, because you are committed to your chosen interpretation of Genesis.

 

[gcthomas]

Is there even ONE transitional fossil? No

None at all. You are completely right. No transitionals.

:think:









:chuckle:





:rotfl:




Except for these, of course:

wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear All,

No matter how many things changed, it was just God applying them to make them different. He didn't want to leave His earth unchanged and the same for millions of years. How'd you like to step outside your house and have a T-Rex to deal with? God's done a great job and He's made man very lucky. Except for all of the violence and sin, the world is a pretty dang good place. It shall become even better when Jesus returns and rules it soon. That is written in the Scriptures. Nothing like diversity!! Much Love To You All!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear All,

You'd rather believe the changes just did themselves on their own rather than believe that God did them???

NOT cool. Wow, the risks you are all taking!! God Talk Some Sense Into You Before It's Too Late,

Michael

 

[freelight]

The truth is out there, discover it for yourself.......

The truth is out there, discover it for yourself.......

The odds, given the numbers I have seen, seem to be that there is probably life of some form out there. But can it travel far enough through space to actually come in contact with us. Assuming that any civilization out there has even advanced to the level we have in regard to space travel.

At any rate, I don't see much solid evidence that any extraterrestrial has ever landed on this planet, or flown through our stratosphere/atmosphere.

As noted earlier in my no longer extant 'ET Theology' thread, we covered the evidence and/or records of ET contact and spiritual teachings or 'science' communicated by ET sources.

~*~*~

Some excellent resource material and documentation of ET inter-actions are below -

ET Contact and Contactees

A Report on the Motivations and Activities of Extraterrestrial Races – A Typology of the Most Significant Extraterrestrial Races Interacting with Humanity, here by © Michael E. Salla, PhD

Physical UFO contacts

One remaining older thread I have on ET contact is - The Disclosure Project

There's plenty of stimulating data and accounts to research in this interesting field. In general my previous view of 'creation' and 'evolution' basically indicating the same 'life-process' remains the same, as all life in its actual state is unfolding its innate potential in all ways possible by laws inherent to its existence. In the greater cosmic manifold, we are just one planet in a particular local universe within a Universe of universes progressing along an evolutionary (creative) path....being the law of nature.

A 'God' or any number of gods/goddesses may be related to our concept of creation and natural processes, but more essentially we accept that an intelligent principle is inherent within nature.




pj

 

[6days]

None at all. You are completely right. No transitionals.

Except for these, of course:

wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils

haha :devil: That is a joke page with quotes such as "The fossils are listed in series, showing the transition from one group to another, representing significant steps in the evolution of major features in various lines. These changes often represent major changes in anatomy, related to mode of life, like the acquisition of feathered wings
That is the religion of evolutionism. Arranging Fossils in a pattern to suit your beliefs is not science.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear 6days,

In Gen. 1:21, it says that God created the fowl which the waters brought forth abundantly. I really think that's where feathers came into being. Much Love In Jesus and God,

Michael

 

[gcthomas]

haha :devil: That is a joke page with quotes such as "The fossils are listed in series, showing the transition from one group to another, representing significant steps in the evolution of major features in various lines. These changes often represent major changes in anatomy, related to mode of life, like the acquisition of feathered wings
That is the religion of evolutionism. Arranging Fossils in a pattern to suit your beliefs is not science.

Feathered wings are a minor change in anatomy. Feathers existed on ground running reptiles, and bird anatomy is very similar to the dinosaurs - just look at the arrangement of the bones on wings and you'll see it is very close to foreleg/arm structures.

A major change in anatomy would be the development of wings de-novo in addition to leaving all four limbs in place. Four legs would suit birds fine - why didn't that happen?

(clue: evolution works)

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear freelight,

Howdy!! You know I saw a UFO too. But the Lord told me afterwards that it was something allowed by the devil to make people think that we are descended from aliens, (ETs) instead of formed by Him like the truth is. He told me He allowed it also back before Jesus first came to this earth as a baby, and the Greeks and Romans started believing in other gods like Zeus, Hera, Perseus, Medusa, etc. and they left believing in the true God. I guess He didn't want them (the Greeks and Romans) to believe in Him.

Much Love In Christ Towards You Freelight!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Feathered wings are a minor change in anatomy. Feathers existed on ground running reptiles, and bird anatomy is very similar to the dinosaurs - just look at the arrangement of the bones on wings and you'll see it is very close to foreleg/arm structures.

A major change in anatomy would be the development of wings de-novo in addition to leaving all four limbs in place. Four legs would suit birds fine - why didn't that happen?

(clue: evolution works)

Feathered wings were not a minor change of anatomy. And which ground-running reptiles had feathers. Evolution doesn't work. It just works with you because you make up things to suit yourself. The reason that birds had two wings were those were their arms. And they had two feet. Just like humans have two arms and two feet.

Michael

:rapture:

 

[gcthomas]

Feathered wings were not a minor change of anatomy.

What, specifically, has changed from feathered arm to feathered wing that can't be described by simple dimension changes in the parts? Anything new or entirely novel? Evolution has to work with what is already there.

And which ground-running reptiles had feathers.

Try this list of dinosaur fossils with evidence of feathers.

There were plenty of non-avian feathered reptiles.

Evolution doesn't work. It just works with you because you make up things to suit yourself.

You are the one with the "just so" God did it like that idea made up to fit your religious preconceptions. :up: The theory of evolution was developed after the evidence was discovered, so it is a better fit to the data.

The reason that birds had two wings were those were their arms.[/QUOTE]

Correct, they were arms, then they evolved into wings, step by slow step over many generations.

 

[alwight]

Feathered wings were not a minor change of anatomy. And which ground-running reptiles had feathers. Evolution doesn't work. It just works with you because you make up things to suit yourself. The reason that birds had two wings were those were their arms. And they had two feet. Just like humans have two arms and two feet.

Michael

:rapture:

You seem to have got a quote to work Michael, well done.

Evolution isn't about making things up, it simply offers the best natural explanation for the physical evidence. It doesn't "suit" anyone who concludes it true to make stuff up that isn't true, if somehow Darwinian evolution is after all false then rational people will want to know what is true. There is nothing to be gained by maintaining a lie and it is not part of any anti-God agenda.
For those who are perhaps less interested in natural evidence and more interested in maintaining a religious belief there may well be a reason for them to presume that Darwinian evolution "doesn't work", as an agenda, even though they never seem able to demonstrate this, and it doesn't seem stop them asserting it anyway.

 

[noguru]

Evolution doesn't work. It just works with you because you make up things to suit yourself.

Michael

:rotfl:

Oh, the irony.

Your party line is actually contradictory. First you guys criticize evolution for realizations that are not pleasant, like that we then share common ancestry with a cockroach. Then you talk out of the other side of your mouth and claim that it is "evolution" which allows one to make up things to suit oneself. Do you not even realize your own inconsistency and dishonesty?

Then whenever you personally witness something you cannot explain, you claim God gave you a vision which explains it. We can all see that your idiotic ideas are not a "vision from God", but just the wind from your own over-bloated ego pushing the sails of your ungrounded imagination.