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Does TOL get us anywhere?

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  • Does TOL get us anywhere?

    Just out of interest; has anyone ever started out at TOL with one set of ideals or beleifs, then actualy had them changed by things that were said by other members?
    "If you gave the people utopia, then they'd rebel for the right to live in Hell..."

  • #2
    TOL can be good, bad, ugly and irrelevant, informative and entertaining depending on-

    My basic beliefs have remained in tact. Many misconceptions I had about my faith are gone and I see more logic behind my belief than I did before.

    On the whole you are probably correct in your implicit statement from the question that we are not accomplishing a whole lot. I spend far to much time here. It's something I need to repent of if I want to get more accomplished in my life.

    I've contemplated just quiting as I obviously have failed several times in my attempts to moderate what I do here. I hope I make the correct decision. There was a thread of this nature quite a while ago. It' was quite good. That repetition though is classic of this site. As far as addressing something new it rarely if ever happens and when it does it is likely dwelled upon for far to long.

    Sure there's always the hope you affect someone and change them for the better. However if I spent my time trying to better myself and not worry as much about everyone else I would likely be better off and perhaps better capable of influencing others in my life. I am not going to say that the debate is utterly futile nor that it doesn't, at times, bring about good. But I am seriously thinking about forsaking it. I think I may have said enough at this point to be reaching the point of diminishing returns. Then there's always that stupid worry that's really unfounded that if I sware it off that someone will be able to undo any good I might have accomplished through any number of mediums.


    Thy mind, O Man, if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation must stretch as high as the utmost heaven, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss. Thou must commune with God.

    --Joseph Smith Jr.

    Comment


    • #3
      Krokodile Dummie,

      NEW GUY ,

      I have been on this forum for over 5 years and

      seen many people (like you) come and go .

      I have had to Defend my opinions and

      changed my outlook when more learned posters

      presented their documentation.

      It has made me Stronger in the Faith .

      I find TOL one of the most TOLERANT forums on the Net.

      and Knight is one of the BEST Webmasters on the Net.

      If you doubt my word, try posting your opinions on the following forum and see how fast they BAN YOU .

      http://www.christianwebsite.com/appi..._author=OMEGA3
      Last edited by OMEGA; August 21st, 2004, 11:21 PM.
      GOD HAS PROMISED US IMMORTALITY

      Comment


      • #4
        “The primary purpose of dialogue is to learn, that is, to change and grow in the perception and understanding of reality, and then to act accordingly. Minimally, the very fact that I learn that my dialogue partner believes "this" rather than "that" proportionally changes my attitude toward her; and a change in my attitude is a significant change in me. We enter into dialogue so that we can learn, change, and grow, not so we can force change on the other, as one hopes to do in debate--a hope realized in inverse proportion to the frequency and ferocity with which debate is entered into. On the other hand, because in dialogue each partner comes with the intention of learning and changing herself, one's partner in fact will also change. Thus the goal of debate, and much more, is accomplished far more effectively by dialogue.�

        See - http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...516#post579516
        "The truly wise talk little about religion, and are not given to taking sides on doctrinal issues...
        They have no time, they say, for that kind of thing.
        They have enough to do in trying to faithfully practice what is beyond dispute."

        -- George MacDonald

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Does TOL get us anywhere?

          Originally posted by heartless_Adam

          Just out of interest; has anyone ever started out at TOL with one set of ideals or beleifs, then actualy had them changed by things that were said by other members?
          As iron sharpens iron,
          So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend.

          I think I've been sharpened quite a bit.
          grace & peace

          Comment


          • #6
            I find TOL one of the most TOLERANT forums on the Net.

            and Knight is one of the BEST Webmasters on the Net.
            Suck up.

            heartless_adam: I've gained something from my use of TOL over the years... I don't think the fact that I haven't changed my core beliefs negates that.
            What Would Cthulhu Do?

            He who knows one religion knows none. - Max Muller

            That's the kind of liberal thinking that leads to being eaten! - Principal Snyder, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

            Abortions for some, miniature American flags for the rest! - Kang as Bob Dole, The Simpsons

            Comment


            • #7
              I dunno... calling Knight's website "tolerant" is a bit of an insult.
              grace & peace

              Comment


              • #8
                DON'T CALL ME A SUCK UP

                IF YOU THINK THIS FORUM IS TOUCHY

                TRY AND POST ON THIS FORUM.

                YOU WILL BE BANNED IN A SECOND .

                http://www.christianwebsite.com/appi..._author=OMEGA3
                GOD HAS PROMISED US IMMORTALITY

                Comment


                • #9
                  DON'T CALL ME A SUCK UP
                  I was just kidding, doll.
                  What Would Cthulhu Do?

                  He who knows one religion knows none. - Max Muller

                  That's the kind of liberal thinking that leads to being eaten! - Principal Snyder, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

                  Abortions for some, miniature American flags for the rest! - Kang as Bob Dole, The Simpsons

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Does TOL get us anywhere?

                    Originally posted by heartless_Adam

                    Just out of interest; has anyone ever started out at TOL with one set of ideals or beleifs, then actualy had them changed by things that were said by other members?
                    Honestly, yes. And I haven't even been here a year. My views on certain aspects of security and righteousness have changed. I used to believe that salvation could be lost, but now I know the difference between seasonal disobedience, and not being saved in the first place.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by OMEGA

                      TRY AND POST ON THIS FORUM.

                      YOU WILL BE BANNED IN A SECOND .

                      http://www.christianwebsite.com/appi..._author=OMEGA3
                      Sounds like fun!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Redfin

                        “The primary purpose of dialogue is to learn, that is, to change and grow in the perception and understanding of reality, and then to act accordingly.
                        The following article will prove this impossible: www.lewrockwell.com/yates/yates62.html


                        From the article:
                        Everybody in his daily behavior again and again bears witness to the immutability and universality of the categories of thought and action. He who addresses fellow men, who wants to inform and convince them, who ask questions and answers other people's questions, can proceed in this way only because he can appeal to something common to all men - namely: the logical structure of human reason. The idea that A could at the same time be non-A is simply inconceivable and absurd to a human mind.
                        Cont. from the article:
                        Polylogism denies this. As close inspection of the term suggests, it means: many logics.... What is true according to one culture isn't necessarily true for another...it means that different peoples literally do not think the same way. Their minds do not operate according to the same logical rules. Whatever the cash value of this reality is, the peoples live in different cognitive amd moral universes...

                        If,say, Americans moving into the 21st century really do live in a different cognitive and moral universe from, say, peoples in the Islamic world - then how do we communicate with them, whatever our purpose? We can't. Not really. They will talk right past us and we will talk right past them.

                        One need only view the many threads and detailed arguments for and against Abortion on TOL to conclude Yates is right. There is no common logical structure to human reason. He goes on to say:"If we begin with the assumption that peoples cannot communicate, no one will ever have any reason to try. Disputes will be resolved not by any form of reason but by fighting it out."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [b][i]Originally posted by Art Deco

                          The following article will prove this impossible
                          Then how do you explain the people just on this thread who have stated their minds have been changed. Do you think they are lying?
                          WARNING: Graphic video here.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Does TOL get us anywhere?

                            Originally posted by heartless_Adam

                            Just out of interest; has anyone ever started out at TOL with one set of ideals or beleifs, then actualy had them changed by things that were said by other members?
                            I know of several former posters who fit that profile...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jefferson

                              Then how do you explain the people just on this thread who have stated their minds have been changed. Do you think they are lying?
                              Jeff, these are rare exceptions. Call me when Zakath repudiates atheism...

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