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Bible Study - the Book of Job

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  • Originally posted by jamie View Post
    It's a play on words. Job came forth naked from his mother's womb and naked he would return to mother earth from whom the elements of every human comes.

    It's poetic imagery.
    Of course many say that - just like they say the resurrection is 'imagery' and any other doctrine they read that they can't make sense of it it tells the truth...

    Peace, Ted
    I Champion GOD’s holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

    Comment


    • During this second round of debate with his 3 so-called friends, Job continues to be in severe physical and emotional pain.
      His 3 friends attempt to make sense of why this is happening to him.
      They keep insisting that suffering comes to the wicked.
      While many scriptures can be found to show this is doctrinally correct; what they keep failing to do is expose any wickedness Job has done.
      For they have not witnessed any wickedness Job has done, but they accuse him of wickedness anyway.

      Long story short, while being doctrinally literate men, they are bearing false witness against Job based on doctrine, and not based on what has actually happened.
      Sound familiar?
      The Pharisees did the same to Christ.
      They tried to accuse him doctrinally, but had not witnessed a darn thing Christ had actually done wrong!


      What Job's "friends" did not do, and what they should have done, was comfort a grieving soul.
      They could not change what was happening to Job. But they could have given him some comfort that was obvious he needed at the time.


      A note for those reading along:
      We've already gone through chapter after chapter of all of them (Job included) asking "Why?"
      There is plenty to learn from this story of old.
      But if you are reading along in this study hoping that the answer of "Why?" will finally be answered; you will be in for a disappointment.
      For even when God shows up in the end, He never tells Job "Why?" this has all happened to him.

      And perhaps that in itself is a lesson to learn.
      Stop dwelling on "Why?", and deal with the situation at hand the best you can.

      We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
      They already know monsters exist.
      We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

      Comment


      • Continuing with some thoughts on points to ponder while studying Job's situation.

        Job's friends have reduced the situation to only two conclusions: either God was justly punishing Job or God was unjustly punishing Job.
        Knowing that God is absolutely just, they conclude that it had to be Job that must have done something to deserve what was happening to him.

        The friends (and even Job) were oblivious to the fact that there was a another conclusion that was hidden from them ---- Satan was the one inflicting pain and suffering upon Job, and it wasn't because of some wicked thing Job had done.

        God's love for Job did not change because of Job's change of position in life.
        God is no respecter of persons (rich/poor, healthy/unhealthy, children/childless).
        Job's position in life changed from having wealth, health, and children; to having no wealth, no health, and no children.
        God's love for Job did not change.

        And let's not forget, Job's love for God did not change either.

        Moral of the story ---- wealth, health, and children are NOT the criteria of whether God loves you or not.

        Do not let the world, or Satan, convince you otherwise. It's a lie.

        We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
        They already know monsters exist.
        We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

        Comment


        • His friends were lazy. It was the only way to demonstrate it.
          John 1:1-2 εν αρχη ην ο λογος At the beginning, it was a word; και ο λογος ην προς ο θεος and a word, it was unto a God; και θεος ην ο λογος and the God, it was.. A word 2 ουτος a-such... 2 ην εν αρχη προς ο θεος ... it was at the beginning unto a God.

          Yahweh is a word of God, not just Christ!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Tambora View Post
            During this second round of debate with his 3 so-called friends, Job continues to be in severe physical and emotional pain.
            His 3 friends attempt to make sense of why this is happening to him.
            They keep insisting that suffering comes to the wicked.
            While many scriptures can be found to show this is doctrinally correct; what they keep failing to do is expose any wickedness Job has done.
            For they have not witnessed any wickedness Job has done, but they accuse him of wickedness anyway.

            Long story short, while being doctrinally literate men, they are bearing false witness against Job based on doctrine, and not based on what has actually happened.
            Sound familiar?
            The Pharisees did the same to Christ.
            They tried to accuse him doctrinally, but had not witnessed a darn thing Christ had actually done wrong!


            What Job's "friends" did not do, and what they should have done, was comfort a grieving soul.
            They could not change what was happening to Job. But they could have given him some comfort that was obvious he needed at the time.


            A note for those reading along:
            We've already gone through chapter after chapter of all of them (Job included) asking "Why?"
            There is plenty to learn from this story of old.
            But if you are reading along in this study hoping that the answer of "Why?" will finally be answered; you will be in for a disappointment.
            For even when God shows up in the end, He never tells Job "Why?" this has all happened to him.

            And perhaps that in itself is a lesson to learn.
            Stop dwelling on "Why?", and deal with the situation at hand the best you can.

            The "why" is knowable.


            LA
            My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tambora View Post
              Continuing with some thoughts on points to ponder while studying Job's situation.

              Job's friends have reduced the situation to only two conclusions: either God was justly punishing Job or God was unjustly punishing Job.
              Knowing that God is absolutely just, they conclude that it had to be Job that must have done something to deserve what was happening to him.

              The friends (and even Job) were oblivious to the fact that there was a another conclusion that was hidden from them ---- Satan was the one inflicting pain and suffering upon Job, and it wasn't because of some wicked thing Job had done.

              God's love for Job did not change because of Job's change of position in life.
              God is no respecter of persons (rich/poor, healthy/unhealthy, children/childless).
              Job's position in life changed from having wealth, health, and children; to having no wealth, no health, and no children.
              God's love for Job did not change.

              And let's not forget, Job's love for God did not change either.

              Moral of the story ---- wealth, health, and children are NOT the criteria of whether God loves you or not.

              Do not let the world, or Satan, convince you otherwise. It's a lie.
              All sufferings are not punishments.

              God allowed satan to do what he did, and God was right behind it all.

              Job lost his dependency upon his flesh, which those sons before him had cultivated till their complete apostasy.

              God tore Jobs flesh off. Heb.ch 12.

              Elihu (not a friend and not restored ) was the voice of believers uncrucified flesh.

              God rebuked Job--

              Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:
              Job 38:2 "Who is this who darkens counsel By words without knowledge?
              Job 38:3 Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me.
              Job 38:4 "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding.
              Job 38:5 Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it?

              LA
              My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
                All sufferings are not punishments.

                God allowed satan to do what he did, and God was right behind it all.

                Job lost his dependency upon his flesh, which those sons before him had cultivated till their complete apostasy.

                God tore Jobs flesh off. Heb.ch 12.

                Elihu (not a friend and not restored ) was the voice of believers uncrucified flesh.

                God rebuked Job--

                Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:
                Job 38:2 "Who is this who darkens counsel By words without knowledge?
                Job 38:3 Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me.
                Job 38:4 "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding.
                Job 38:5 Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it?

                LA
                Elihu was Christ in this.

                He stood in Gods stead.

                He ascribed righteousness to God.

                He did not need Job to offer a sacrifice for him, or for Job to pray for him.

                He was actually Jobs best friend, he didnt pull any punches or falsely accuse him.

                What do you mean by, he was the voice of a believers uncrucified flesh?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
                  The "why" is knowable.


                  LA

                  Yip.
                  Simply that the righteousness of man is as filthy rags.

                  Job foiled Satan by maintaining his integrity and not cursing God.

                  However, after hearing Elihu and God, he changed his tune about how he would justify himself to God.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by 1Mind1Spirit View Post
                    Elihu was Christ in this.

                    He stood in Gods stead.

                    He ascribed righteousness to God.

                    He did not need Job to offer a sacrifice for him, or for Job to pray for him.

                    He was actually Jobs best friend, he didnt pull any punches or falsely accuse him.

                    What do you mean by, he was the voice of a believers uncrucified flesh?
                    Because of what Elihu said---

                    Job 32:2 Then the wrath of Elihu, the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram, was aroused against Job; his wrath was aroused because he justified himself rather than God.
                    Job 32:3 Also against his three friends his wrath was aroused, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.
                    Job 32:4 Now because they were years older than he, Elihu had waited to speak to Job.
                    Job 32:5 When Elihu saw that there was no answer in the mouth of these three men, his wrath was aroused.
                    Job 32:6 So Elihu, the son of Barachel the Buzite, answered and said: "I am young in years, and you are very old; Therefore I was afraid, And dared not declare my opinion to you.

                    Job 32:7 I said, 'Age should speak, And multitude of years should teach wisdom.'
                    Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding.
                    Job 32:9 Great men are not always wise, Nor do the aged always understand justice.
                    Job 32:10 "Therefore I say, 'Listen to me, I also will declare my opinion.'
                    Job 32:11 Indeed I waited for your words, I listened to your reasonings, while you searched out what to say.
                    Job 32:12 I paid close attention to you; And surely not one of you convinced Job, Or answered his words—
                    Job 32:13 Lest you say, 'We have found wisdom'; God will vanquish him, not man.
                    Job 32:14 Now he has not directed his words against me; So I will not answer him with your words.
                    Job 32:15 "They are dismayed and answer no more; Words escape them.
                    Job 32:16 And I have waited, because they did not speak, Because they stood still and answered no more.
                    Job 32:17 I also will answer my part, I too will declare my opinion.
                    Job 32:18 For I am full of words; The spirit within me compels me.
                    Job 32:19 Indeed my belly is like wine that has no vent; It is ready to burst like new wineskins.
                    Job 32:20 I will speak, that I may find relief; I must open my lips and answer.
                    Job 32:21 Let me not, I pray, show partiality to anyone; Nor let me flatter any man.
                    Job 32:22 For I do not know how to flatter, Else my Maker would soon take me away.


                    All false prophets speak like Elihu did, and is not the way of a true prophet.

                    At least He admitted it was his own opinion.

                    You can try to persuade me.

                    LA
                    My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
                      Because of what Elihu said---


                      All false prophets speak like Elihu did, and is not the way of a true prophet.

                      At least He admitted it was his own opinion.

                      You can try to persuade me.

                      LA
                      Really.......

                      35 Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom .

                      36 My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men.

                      37 For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.




                      1 Elihu spake moreover, and said ,

                      2 Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst , My righteousness is more than God's?

                      3 For thou saidst , What advantage will it be unto thee? and, What profit shall I have, if I be cleansed from my sin?

                      4 I will answer thee, and thy companions with thee.



                      1 Elihu also proceeded , and said ,

                      2 Suffer me a little, and I will shew thee that I have yet to speak on God's behalf.

                      3 I will fetch my knowledge from afar, and will ascribe righteousness to my Maker .

                      4 For truly my words shall not be false: he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee.


                      Now God.........

                      1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said ,

                      2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

                      3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.



                      Elihu was the only one who God did not correct.

                      As a matter of fact, God confirmed Elihus speech.

                      Comment


                      • This thread is making TOL history. TOL's very first full length theological work..a book, a commentary by Tams of the bora. If it were divided into 2 volumes one volume is already complete.

                        Magnifico
                        One lavished upon in the Beloved
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • Actually...Psalmist's thread could run into a few volumes.
                          One lavished upon in the Beloved
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • Haven't gotten to Elihu's speeches yet.

                            We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
                            They already know monsters exist.
                            We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Tambora View Post
                              Haven't gotten to Elihu's speeches yet.
                              Elihu means.....

                              Whose God is He.

                              And no its not a question, lol

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by 1Mind1Spirit View Post
                                Really.......

                                35 Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom .

                                36 My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men.

                                37 For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.
                                Only a novice in righteousness would attribute those words to someone who God agrees with.

                                Tambora has pointed out so many times on this thread that such an attitude toward Job was wrong and evil.

                                When you are treated like that yourself you will think it is of God and be in utter confusion.

                                2Co 11:19 For you put up with fools gladly, since you yourselves are wise!
                                2Co 11:20 For you put up with it if one brings you into bondage, if one devours you, if one takes from you, if one exalts himself, if one strikes you on the face.

                                Isa 58:4 Indeed you fast for strife and debate, And to strike with the fist of wickedness. You will not fast as you do this day, To make your voice heard on high.


                                Listen,

                                There are many among believers who think Elihu was speaking for God and they do the same as he did, and think nothing of it.

                                They, like Elihu, are not friends of Job and never will be restored with Job, unless they repent.





                                LA
                                My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

                                Comment

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