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  • ARCHIVE: Open Theism part 3

    This thread will be a continuation of the thread ARCHIVE: Open Theism pt. 2

    Which at the time of this posting had 8,094 replies and almost 154,954 views! yet because of the size of the thread it had grown sluggish therefore we shut it down and opened part 3 here!

    Enjoy and lets get back to the discussion!

    The future.... is it completely settled in advance or open to an extent?
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  • #2
    Originally posted by Knight View Post
    This thread will be a continuation of the thread ARCHIVE: Open Theism pt. 2

    Which at the time of this posting had 8,094 replies and almost 154,954 views! yet because of the size of the thread it had grown sluggish therefore we shut it down and opened part 3 here!

    Enjoy and lets get back to the discussion!

    The future.... is it completely settled in advance or open to an extent?
    Last edited by Lighthouse; May 2, 2009, 04:18 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by assuranceagent
      When God said, "Now I know" (albeit with a couple less caps than you included), He meant that at that point in time, He knew. That does not necessarily preclude Him from having known prior to that point.
      So God knew, but then forgot. I get it now.
      Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

      Titus 1

      For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

      Ephesians 5

      11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

      Comment


      • #4
        The better question, Nick, is "why the 'now'?"

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Knight View Post
          This thread will be a continuation of the thread ARCHIVE: Open Theism pt. 2

          Which at the time of this posting had 8,094 replies and almost 154,954 views! yet because of the size of the thread it had grown sluggish therefore we shut it down and opened part 3 here!

          Enjoy and lets get back to the discussion!

          The future.... is it completely settled in advance or open to an extent?
          Thanks for the re-praising of the question. Should make for a really good discushion
          Galatians 5:13 ¶For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

          The borrower is slave to the linder. What makes this country think it is rich and free?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Nick M View Post
            So God knew, but then forgot. I get it now.
            How many times do you have to be told that God did not say those words but the Angel said those words. The Angel did not know.
            Galatians 5:13 ¶For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

            The borrower is slave to the linder. What makes this country think it is rich and free?

            Comment


            • #7
              Who is the angel of the Lord then? Never mind. Abraham loved the angel, not God. Got it.
              Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

              Titus 1

              For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

              Ephesians 5

              11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm sure glad Abraham passed the test, or else God's unconditional promise of Gen 12:1-3 may have been foiled.

                There's a lot of typology going on here, Abraham's faith is a picture of Jesus Christ's faith, Isaac as the promised seed is a picture of Jesus Christ as the promised seed.
                Originally posted by Interplanner
                They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
                Originally posted by Interplanner
                You're too literal to get it.
                Originally posted by Interplanner
                The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Nick M View Post
                  Who is the angel of the Lord then? Never mind. Abraham loved the angel, not God. Got it.
                  The Angel was God's messenger but not god himself. If you saw the real glory of an Angel I wonder what you would call him?
                  Galatians 5:13 ¶For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

                  The borrower is slave to the linder. What makes this country think it is rich and free?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SaulToPaul View Post
                    I'm sure glad Abraham passed the test, or else God's unconditional promise of Gen 12:1-3 may have been foiled.

                    There's a lot of typology going on here, Abraham's faith is a picture of Jesus Christ's faith, Isaac as the promised seed is a picture of Jesus Christ as the promised seed.
                    A test is not always to pass or fail but to prove a truth that already exist.
                    Galatians 5:13 ¶For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

                    The borrower is slave to the linder. What makes this country think it is rich and free?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Except for that little "Now I know..." part, you might have a point. The temporal reference is there specifically to contrast a previous condition opposite the present one. Ergo, God came to know at that moment whether Abraham would give up his promised son, if God asked.

                      Muz
                      I don't care how systematic your theology is, until you show me how biblical it is.

                      2 Tim 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think the major theological point OVT makes about the future really has little to do with Abraham or any of the other examples that we clearly find in Scripture. I think the major theological point that OVT makes, here, is that God engages in loving relationships. 1 John 4:8 is about God's nature, and that is reflected in God's creation.

                        The problem of a settled future is that a loving relationship requires the possibility of rejection. If you create an entity that will act exactly as its nature defines it to act, you cannot engage in a truly loving relationship with it.

                        Same thing for us. If our future is already settled, all our decision already determined by whatever means, then no truly loving relationship is possible. The only way a loving relationship is possible is for the future to be at least partially open, especially with regard to our relationship with God.

                        The other side of OVT which demands a partially open future is God's just nature. If God designed creatures to act as He designed them, and they sinned, and God condemned them to hell, that's fine. But that would not be condemned based upon God's just nature. In a settled future, all sins are already predestined. The means by which this happens isn't germane. The fact is that the determiner of our decision to sin is the one who is justly punished, and in a settled future, that determiner simply cannot be us. Thus, an open future is necessary for justification to be required of us and for wrath to be hung over us.

                        Muz
                        I don't care how systematic your theology is, until you show me how biblical it is.

                        2 Tim 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by elected4ever View Post
                          The Angel was God's messenger but not god himself. If you saw the real glory of an Angel I wonder what you would call him?
                          Now it came to pass after these things that God tested Abraham, and said to him, “Abraham!”And he said, “Here I am.”

                          Then He said, “Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.”


                          Just because you are in the body doesn't mean you should lead people astray. Quit applying your opinion of what you think your greek like god should be, and believe in the God of the Bible.
                          Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

                          Titus 1

                          For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

                          Ephesians 5

                          11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Either way, we all practically live as if the future is not fatalistically fixed. The Open View resonates with reality and Scripture.
                            Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

                            They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
                            I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

                            Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

                            "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

                            The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by elected4ever View Post
                              How many times do you have to be told that God did not say those words but the Angel said those words. The Angel did not know.


                              The angel was relaying the words of God, not his own words.

                              Comment

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