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zippy's POTD 5-28-13

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  • zippy's POTD 5-28-13

    AMR is facing off against Paulos. He throws a few jabs to try to keep Paulos at bay, but it's no use. The cleanly delivered haymaker turns AMR's mug into an ocean frenzied with dissonance, a sight to make Picasso grimace. It doesn't look like he'll be getting up anytime soon:

    Originally posted by Paulos
    In another thread, AMR stated, "Anyone that claims Augustine or any fourth century Christian was a papist is very ignorant of their history. In reply, I posted two quotes from Augustine in which he stated that "the see of Peter the rock against which the gates of hell do not prevail". Given that they were contemporaries, one would reasonably assume that Augustine and Jerome shared the same view on the subject, and in fact they did.

    AMR provided us with the following partial quote from Jerome: "Before attachment to persons in religion was begun at the instigation of the devil, the churches were governed by the common consultation of the elders." This partial quote makes it look as though Jerome supported the idea of church government by common consultation of the elders and opposed the papacy, but here is the same quote with additional context:
    "A priest is then the same as a bishop, and before party-spirit in religious matters arose by the devil's suggestion, and it was said among the peoples: 'I am of Paul, I of Apollos, and I of Cephas,' the Churches were governed by a common council of presbyters. But after each of them came to think that those whom he had baptized were his own and not Christ's, it was decreed in the whole world that one of the priests should be elected to be placed above the others, and that to him the whole care of the Church should belong, and thus the seeds of division should be destroyed."

    The context provides us with a view that is quite the opposite of the one AMR attempted to convey, and it doesn't stop there. Elsewhere, Jerome wrote:
    "The safety of the Church depends on the dignity of the High Priest. If to him is not given a certain independence and eminence of power (exsors et eminens potestas), there will be made in the Church as many schisms as there are priests. This is the reason that without chrism and the command of a bishop neither a priest nor a deacon has the right to baptize."

    "Although the same is done in another place upon all the Apostles, and they all receive the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and the strength of the Church is made solid upon them all equally, yet one of them is elected among the twelve [Matthew 16:18-19], that by the setting up of a head the occasion of schism may be removed.

    Furthermore, in letters to Pope Damasus, Jerome wrote:
    "...I ought to consult the Chair of Peter and the faith praised by the mouth of the Apostle [Rom 1:8]..."

    "Away with envy, away with all canvassing of the Roman power; it is but with the successor of the fisherman and the disciple of the Cross that I speak. Following none in the first place but Christ, I am in communion with your beatitude, that is, with the Chair of Peter. On that rock I know the Church is built...whoso is not with Christ is of Antichrist."

    "On the one side storm the raging Arians, supported by the powers of the world. On the other, a Church, torn in three parts, tries to seize me. The authority of ancient monks who dwell around rises against me. Meantime I cry aloud: If any is joined to the Chair of Peter, he is mine!"

    Clearly, Jerome was a supporter of the papacy.
    Well done Paulos