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Delmar's POD 11-3-14

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  • #46
    Originally posted by journey View Post
    And you still don't know what you're talking about, especially as an atheist. Psalms 14:1-7. You have a record of denying the obvious.
    Trust those that seek the truth, but doubt those that say they have found it.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by MrDeets View Post
      LOL, Tam, atheist or not, you KNOW I am incapable of being boring.
      True. Anything but boring!
      You are the life of the party.

      We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
      They already know monsters exist.
      We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by musterion View Post
        Note I said 'should know,' not 'does know.' I was taking his premise just for the sake of response to show his bad logic.
        There was nothing wrong with his logic.

        Originally posted by musterion View Post
        Time you hung up the spurs, pops.
        I don't know who he's calling "young" as he's younger than me.

        Originally posted by Angel4Truth View Post
        Im not arminian nor calvinist was only making a point that choice is still choice if you know what someone will choose
        In your example there was inference based on past knowledge. In the discussion of free will and God's foreknowledge that is not part of the debate. According to the argument of those who are not of the open view God's foreknowledge is exhaustive, definite and stretches back to eternity past. In other words, according to them God knew what I would wear today before He created anything. Do you agree with that view?

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
          In your example there was inference based on past knowledge. In the discussion of free will and God's foreknowledge that is not part of the debate. According to the argument of those who are not of the open view God's foreknowledge is exhaustive, definite and stretches back to eternity past. In other words, according to them God knew what I would wear today before He created anything. Do you agree with that view?
          yes, but i rather think that God isnt interested in focusing on that.
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Angel4Truth View Post
            yes, but i rather think that God isnt interested in focusing on that.
            Well, at least we agree on half. I am fully convinced, by Scripture, that God did not know, because the information did not exist. In fact, the available information from which He could select a choice for the possibility did not exist then.

            Can you tell me why you believe it did?

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
              Well, at least we agree on half. I am fully convinced, by Scripture, that God did not know, because the information did not exist. In fact, the available information from which He could select a choice for the possibility did not exist then.

              Can you tell me why you believe it did?
              We have debated this before, nothing about it has changed for me. I do not limit God.
              sigpic

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by rocketman View Post
                So you contend that GOD also controls whether his creation sins or not, no?
                In your theology, is God capable of restraining sin or not?
                αξιον εστιν το αρνιον
                Worthy is the Lamb

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Dialogos View Post
                  In your theology, is God capable of restraining sin or not?
                  Some here think that God created sin.
                  All of my ancestors are human.
                  Originally posted by Squeaky
                  That explains why your an idiot.
                  Originally posted by God's Truth
                  Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                  Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                  1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                  Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Angel4Truth View Post
                    We have debated this before, nothing about it has changed for me. I do not limit God.
                    Neither do I. I did not ask you why you think God is not limited. I asked why you think time is not limited. Why do you think tomorrow existed to be known before God even decided to create?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
                      Neither do I. I did not ask you why you think God is not limited. I asked why you think time is not limited. Why do you think tomorrow existed to be known before God even decided to create?
                      I think God is capable of working all things together - there are countless verses that testify to His having foreknowledge of all things. See our last debate on it for some of the relevant verses, i have no desire to debate it again.
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Angel4Truth View Post
                        I think God is capable of working all things together - there are countless verses that testify to His having foreknowledge of all things. See our last debate on it for some of the relevant verses, i have no desire to debate it again.
                        1. No such verses exist.
                        2. I didn't ask about God's foreknowledge, so that is irrelevant.
                        3. Stop avoiding the issue and answer the question I actually asked.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
                          There was nothing wrong with his logic
                          I disagree. He wrote,

                          How is it a choice if I have to do what he already knows I'll do?
                          Given the prior conversation, "have to do" seemed to imply "forced to do." If I misread him on that point then the problem is mine but I don't think I did.

                          If God happens to foreknow everything people will choose to do, that foreknowledge does not reduce their choices to non-choices. It does not equate with Him "forcing" them to do what is foreknown. Sure, if it's foreknown, they will "have" to do it (yes, I understand the can of worms that opens) but that still wouldn't equate with Him "making" them do anything. Those are two independent propositions.
                          "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                          Terence Mc Lean

                          [most will be very surprised]


                          Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                          By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
                            Neither do I. I did not ask you why you think God is not limited. I asked why you think time is not limited. Why do you think tomorrow existed to be known before God even decided to create?
                            sure time is limited, all things that have a beginning are.


                            Gen 1:1

                            here you see time start. "In the beginning" stop there...
                            this is an open plane in geometry and any geometry student will tell you a plane is infinite in theory. But we know the word infinite makes no sense.

                            So , In the beginning ,time starts, God created, on His plane, the Heavens and the Earth ie the Universe.

                            Time did not start till creation, and God did not create Himself in creation.

                            Your a smart guy but your afraid to disagree with your teachers. and that will limit you friend.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by musterion View Post
                              I disagree. He wrote,

                              Given the prior conversation, "have to do" seemed to imply "forced to do." If I misread him on that point then the problem is mine but I don't think I did.

                              If God happens to foreknow everything people will choose to do, that foreknowledge does not reduce their choices to non-choices. It does not equate with Him "forcing" them to do what is foreknown. Sure, if it's foreknown, they will "have" to do it (yes, I understand the can of worms that opens) but that still wouldn't equate with Him "making" them do anything. Those are two independent propositions.
                              Can one do anything other than what God knows they will do? Are the able to? Do they have the freedom to do so?

                              Originally posted by JosephR View Post
                              sure time is limited, all things that have a beginning are.

                              Gen 1:1

                              here you see time start. "In the beginning" stop there...
                              this is an open plane in geometry and any geometry student will tell you a plane is infinite in theory. But we know the word infinite makes no sense.

                              So , In the beginning ,time starts, God created, on His plane, the Heavens and the Earth ie the Universe.

                              Time did not start till creation, and God did not create Himself in creation.

                              Your a smart guy but your afraid to disagree with your teachers. and that will limit you friend.
                              You don't know me, so don't pretend to. I came to this site fully believing in the Arminian view of time and God's relation to it; including His foreknowledge. I believed time was created in the events recorded in Genesis1, regardless of the fact that no such statement is ever made; throughout the entire Bible.

                              time is limited in that the present moment is all there is at any given moment. The past is gone, never to be seen again. And the future is yet to be. Neither exists outside of memories and concepts. And God cannot be within that which is non-extant. He cannot see that which does not exist and therefore cannot be seen.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
                                Can one do anything other than what God knows they will do?
                                IF He exhaustively knows all that we all will or won't do...if He knows whether I'll order a BLT or a Reuben nine years from now...then I'd guess the answer would be no, we don't. But I was not looking to enter into this debate. There's too much that seems philosophical white area speculation and assumption making, on both sides, so I shy away from it. There's good points made by both too, but too much 'secret things are God's' about all this to me. I only wanted to show what I see as a hole in an atheist's reasoning about God, and nothing else.
                                "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                                Terence Mc Lean

                                [most will be very surprised]


                                Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                                By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                                Comment

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